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DV D.

Sorry to say, but this is indeed a "costly mistake" as you put it. You were supposed to fill in the correct situation at the time you submitted it. (If you were not married at that time, you had no eligible dependent to leave off and even the bit you quote points out it only applies to family members at the time you enter not those "acquired" later....). If you later got married, you would then add your new spouse after you get selected. In every case we are aware of here, an incorrect marital status at the time of application results in automatic disqualification. Note that even if you had got married when you planned, your marriage certificate will still have been after the date you entered the lottery with the same result.
 
Nah this is a minor mistake.

The rules on this only specifically point to the fact that if you had listed yourself as single(while actually married) without listing the information of your spouse and kid(s) in the original entry, you would have been disqualified.
Listing yourself as married while potentially married is not subject to disqualification. If anything, your mistake is minor and justified for not getting married when you intended to get married. It is not a pop up marriage situation.

Different countries have different laws that bind them. Some countries respect cohabitation and treat them as legal unions. Some have customary marriages that are blessed by their societies and are not awarded paper certificates to prove their union.

I had a friend who had this same problem in another dimension..they were to be married in Oct, applied as married, but had a little fight in their wedding period, settled later and rescheduled their wedding to May and they were successful in their DV process.

I'll advise you not send the forms to KCC yet till you have your marriage finalized and as you listed there is a baby on the way, make sure you include the information of your baby when it comes.

Wish you all the best.
 
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lukasz said:
Nah this is a minor mistake.

The rules on this only specifically point to the fact that if you had listed yourself as single(while actually married) without listing the information of your spouse and kid(s) in the original entry, you would have been disqualified.
Listing yourself as married while potentially married is not subject to disqualification. If anything, your mistake is minor and justified for not getting married when you intended to get married. It is not a pop up marriage situation.

Different countries have different laws that bind them. Some countries respect cohabitation and treat them as legal unions. Some have customary marriages that are blessed by their societies and are not awarded paper certificates to prove their union.

I had a friend who had this same problem in another dimension..they were to be married in Oct, applied as married, but had a little fight in their wedding period, settled later and rescheduled their wedding to May and they were successful in their DV process.

I'll advise you not send the forms to KCC yet till you have your marriage finalized and as you listed there is a baby on the way, make sure you include the information of your baby when it comes.

Wish you all the best.
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That is interesting - first case I have heard of where incorrect marital status, doesn't matter what, was not disqualified. You're already indicating you think there is a problem by telling her not to submit the DS260 yet because it will contradict the entry.

I would just point out that the poster needs to be prepared to take the risk of losing the medical and visa interview fees and bear the consequences of declaring immigrant intent to the US by submitting a Ds260, by going ahead with the application.
 
SusieQQQ said:
That is interesting - first case I have heard of where incorrect marital status, doesn't matter what, was not disqualified. You're already indicating you think there is a problem by telling her not to submit the DS260 yet because it will contradict the entry.

I would just point out that the poster needs to be prepared to take the risk of losing the medical and visa interview fees and bear the consequences of declaring immigrant intent to the US by submitting a Ds260, by going ahead with the application.
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There is no risk involved.
First of all: the US consulates know that comprehension of the English language is quite a problem in countries where English is not a first language (how many countries of the world have English as their first language?) Which is why major notices are put up
Secondly: The only marital discrepancy that was mentioned was that of "not including 'eligible' family members at the time of entry" and it was specially put up so that people would not say they didn't get that part.
Third: It all depends on what you call "incorrect marital status" especially when there are no options that capture those in potential marriages. Take note that the options listed are Unmarried, married, divorced, widowed, or legally separated. In some climes, being engaged is considered married. The incorrect marital statuses that were clearly put up for attention are concerning.
1. Being married and not listing the name of your spouse and children if any at the time of entry.
2. Being in an uncompleted divorced (without proof of a court document approving the divorce) at the time of entry and not listing the name of your spouse and children if any.

Please point out what you are sure of. I am tempted to ask you to please put up references to the cases you mentioned above where people entered as married while potentially married and were disqualified outright for it. You were the one that wrote this right?...."In every case we are aware of here, an incorrect marital status at the time of application results in automatic disqualification"....If they were disqualified they must have been because they satisfied either of the 2 notices I put up here or there must have been something else wrong with their case like it must have been a hybrid pop up marriage but certainly not because of this minor mistake.

Please before you start pointing out things, first gather the right information because you might be creating panic where there ought not to be one.

Asides from my friend's case, I got more confirmation from a Nigerian forum which caught my attention where someone asked an immigrant Visa officer about something similar and his reply was that, "In the event she was married and still listed herself as single, she would be out-rightly disqualified. However, listing herself as married when she wasn't technically married yet is not a basis for disqualification, especially when there is a reasonable explanation. As was described, the situation/mix-up will not lead to a disqualification."

So please let's be objective when we try to help those in need here. The burden of proof in his/her case if any would be demanded would be to maybe confirm the applicant's story to justify the reason why they weren't married when they planned to get married. One way would be by looking at the child's birth date and tracking back to see if there is any truth in it or asking to see a death certificate of the deceased family member and the relationship to the applicants.

And I am not indicating anything common sense doesn't already imply. BS happens in the real world. It is only right to wait till you actually get married because jumping from "filling in Married in the original entry" to "filling in Single in the follow up form that goes to KCC" when there is no "divorce" would be "creating a problem" where there ought to be none. As the KCC would expect to see a divorce certificate/proof as opposed to a marriage certificate/proof.
 
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lukasz said:
Asides from my friend's case, I got more confirmation from a Nigerian forum which caught my attention where someone asked an immigrant Visa officer about something similar and his reply was that, "In the event she was married and still listed herself as single, she would be out-rightly disqualified. However, listing herself as married when she wasn't technically married yet is not a basis for disqualification, especially when there is a reasonable explanation. As was described, the situation/mix-up will not lead to a disqualification."
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Do you have a link to that forum post you mention? I'm sure others are curious about it too.

Who knows how it will turn out for rookieNo1. It probably does bring more scrutiny the other way (initially listing as unmarried, and then switching to married). The official DV-2015 instructions (see below) seem to focus only on that situation and not at all on rookieNo1's situation (entering 'married' before being married).

In most English-speaking countries, the definition of 'spouse' is very clear, and it does not include engaged. So it really depends on the consulate practices and CO where rookieNo1 will have her interview.

All she can do is print out the forum post that lukasz mentions and print out the relevant excerpts from the DV-2015 instructions and be prepared to plead her case if the CO negatively focuses on it.

(excerpts from http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/DV-2015-Instructions-Translations/DV_2015_Instructions.pdf )

Failure to list your eligible spouse will result in disqualification of the principal applicant and
refusal of all visas in the case at the time of the visa interview. You must list your spouse here
even if you plan to be divorced before you apply for a visa.
...
13. What family members must I include in my DV entry?
Spouse: You must list your spouse (husband or wife) regardless of whether or not he/she is living with you or
intends to immigrate to the United States. You must list your spouse even if you are currently separated from
him/her, unless you are legally separated (i.e., there is a written agreement recognized by a court or a court
order). If you are legally separated, you do not have to list your spouse, though you will not be penalized if
you do so. If you are divorced or your spouse is deceased, you do not have to list your former spouse.
...
If you list family members on your entry, they are not required to apply for a visa or to immigrate or travel
with you. However, if you fail to include an eligible dependent on your original entry and later list them on
your visa application forms, your case will be disqualified and none of you will be eligible for a visa. This only
applies to those who were family members at the time the original application was submitted, not those
acquired at a later date. ​
 
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rookie. so maybe this was indeed the same situation because the story sounds very similar to yours. I only wonder why you brought the same story here if you were already answered by someone with more experience in immigrant issues.
zuroma. The forum is on one nairaland .It would take me some time to find the particular post but I will post the link here when I find it. . However just like you pointed out, "However, if you fail to include an eligible dependent on your original entry and later list them on your visa application forms, your case will be disqualified and none of you will be eligible for a visa. This only applies to those who were family members at the time the original application was submitted, not those acquired at a later date." One of the meanings would be " However, if you failed to include an eligible dependent on your original entry and later listed them on your visa application forms, your case will be disqualified and none of you will be eligible for a visa but if you did and you became "status" with that eligible dependent later and include them on your visa application form, you are not subject to this disqualification clause. The idea of a pop up marriage is ruled out because it is a novice mistake which leads them to know you really planned to marry this particular person even though something disrupted these plans.
 
lukasz said:
There is no risk involved.
First of all: the US consulates know that comprehension of the English language is quite a problem in countries where English is not a first language (how many countries of the world have English as their first language?) Which is why major notices are put up
Secondly: The only marital discrepancy that was mentioned was that of "not including 'eligible' family members at the time of entry" and it was specially put up so that people would not say they didn't get that part.
Third: It all depends on what you call "incorrect marital status" especially when there are no options that capture those in potential marriages. Take note that the options listed are Unmarried, married, divorced, widowed, or legally separated. In some climes, being engaged is considered married. The incorrect marital statuses that were clearly put up for attention are concerning.
1. Being married and not listing the name of your spouse and children if any at the time of entry.
2. Being in an uncompleted divorced (without proof of a court document approving the divorce) at the time of entry and not listing the name of your spouse and children if any.

Please point out what you are sure of. I am tempted to ask you to please put up references to the cases you mentioned above where people entered as married while potentially married and were disqualified outright for it. You were the one that wrote this right?...."In every case we are aware of here, an incorrect marital status at the time of application results in automatic disqualification"....If they were disqualified they must have been because they satisfied either of the 2 notices I put up here or there must have been something else wrong with their case like it must have been a hybrid pop up marriage but certainly not because of this minor mistake.

Please before you start pointing out things, first gather the right information because you might be creating panic where there ought not to be one.

Asides from my friend's case, I got more confirmation from a Nigerian forum which caught my attention where someone asked an immigrant Visa officer about something similar and his reply was that, "In the event she was married and still listed herself as single, she would be out-rightly disqualified. However, listing herself as married when she wasn't technically married yet is not a basis for disqualification, especially when there is a reasonable explanation. As was described, the situation/mix-up will not lead to a disqualification."

So please let's be objective when we try to help those in need here. The burden of proof in his/her case if any would be demanded would be to maybe confirm the applicant's story to justify the reason why they weren't married when they planned to get married. One way would be by looking at the child's birth date and tracking back to see if there is any truth in it or asking to see a death certificate of the deceased family member and the relationship to the applicants.

And I am not indicating anything common sense doesn't already imply. BS happens in the real world. It is only right to wait till you actually get married because jumping from "filling in Married in the original entry" to "filling in Single in the follow up form that goes to KCC" when there is no "divorce" would be "creating a problem" where there ought to be none. As the KCC would expect to see a divorce certificate/proof as opposed to a marriage certificate/proof.
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Interesting discussion. However, saying there is "no risk involved" is not correct at all, and quite honestly I don't think a Nigerian forum is the most reliable source of information available. So - your perspective is interesting and demands further investigation but it is a bit premature to ask others to not post things before gathering the right information and then doing exactly that yourself.

So you have quoted the instructions, but the instructions are not the rules that govern this process. Other than the Nigerian forum do you have any other references on this subject?
 
Britsimon said:
Interesting discussion. However, saying there is "no risk involved" is not correct at all, and quite honestly I don't think a Nigerian forum is the most reliable source of information available. So - your perspective is interesting and demands further investigation but it is a bit premature to ask others to not post things before gathering the right information and then doing exactly that yourself.

So you have quoted the instructions, but the instructions are not the rules that govern this process. Other than the Nigerian forum do you have any other references on this subject?
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Saying "no risk involved" was in reference to it being called a costly mistake. without providing any tangible information to reinforce what was so costly about the mistake. I think an immigrant Visa officer answering questions on his job provides much more information than an applicant making statements based on their own opinions. Plus like I said, I know someone who this happened to. The instructions may not be the rules but at least they are there to guide us. In the absence of there being a set of laid out rules, I think it's better to pay attention to the instructions.
 
lukasz said:
Saying "no risk involved" was in reference to it being called a costly mistake. without providing any tangible information to reinforce what was so costly about the mistake. I think an immigrant Visa officer answering questions on his job provides much more information than an applicant making statements based on their own opinions. Plus like I said, I know someone who this happened to. The instructions may not be the rules but at least they are there to guide us. In the absence of there being a set of laid out rules, I think it's better to pay attention to the instructions.
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But there are a set of laid out rules - and the instructions are merely a subset of them. In terms of what you find credible and what others decide is credible, everyone is free to make up their own mind.
 
I really don't have time to go searching through thousands of forum posts - sorry.

FAQ from Warsaw embassy stating plainly that if family information was incorrect at the time one entered the lottery it is grounds for disqualification. No caveats about some types of misrepresentation being ok while others aren't, or stating it just applies to leaving out people. Just "incorrect". Note this is an official document, not a forum post. You will also find plenty of stuff from DOS being adamant that embassies are consistent in their application of the rules. So make of that what you will. I would certainly be very cautious about reading this and then advising someone that there is "no risk at all".
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/poland/275705/cons_iv/DV-2013 FAQ.pdf

Best course of action is for the poster to contact the embassy and speak to someone there directly. If the Nigerian embassy really thinks it's ok they will tell her, then she can go ahead. If it isn't, she does risk losing $1000+ for two medicals plus visa fees as well as having any future visitor visa request being heavily scrutinized for previously submitting an application for an immigrant visa.

As an aside, it's amazing how everyone on the forums knows someone who got a DV without the rules applying. One person apparently got his visa despite the wrong region of chargeability. Another apparently was able to enter as a DV2 before the DV1 entered. Etc. imagine if everyone had to take these exceptions /oversights - that is assuming they actually happened - as precedents for their own cases....
 
Suzie, I believe you wrote here , "In every case we are aware of here, an incorrect marital status at the time of application results in automatic disqualification. " That is not what the piece you later brought up said. It says , "You should tell the embassy’s consular section about any inconsistency in your personal data and
family status as soon as you become aware of the inconsistency. Attempting to conceal an inconsistency could constitute misrepresentation in order to obtain an immigration benefit." and that is what should have been advised not telling that she is "automatically disqualified".
This all shows that the rules are not standardized...so people should try to avoid these kinds of mistakes in future.
 
lukasz said:
Suzie, I believe you wrote here , "In every case we are aware of here, an incorrect marital status at the time of application results in automatic disqualification. " That is not what the piece you later brought up said. It says , "You should tell the embassy’s consular section about any inconsistency in your personal data and
family status as soon as you become aware of the inconsistency. Attempting to conceal an inconsistency could constitute misrepresentation in order to obtain an immigration benefit." and that is what should have been advised not telling that she is "automatically disqualified".
This all shows that the rules are not standardized...so people should try to avoid these kinds of mistakes in future.
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Lukasz my dear, did you miss this - complete and unedited - sentence:

"If the family information you submitted on the original entry form was incorrect or incomplete at the time you entered the lottery, you will unfortunately be found ineligible for an immigrant visa."

...or did you just leave it out because it didn't suit your story? Don't bother answering, because I can't be bothered to continue going round in circles. The bottom line is you absolutely cannot unequivocally tell the OP there is absolutely no risk, yet you do.

You also seem unaware that the benign sounding "misrepresentation in order to obtain an immigration benefit" is immigration fraud and carries a lifetime ban from the US.
 
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