Dual Citizenship for former Indian Citizens (and current USC) - Possible?

G

go_cp

Registered Users (C)
Refer to

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

So if a former Indian Citizen and a current US citizen, ever takes up Indian Citizen, because the laws change in India will loose US citizenship (unless by act of congress). Any thoughts on how the Indian Govt can ever grant dual nationality to current OCIs?
 
go_cp said:
Refer to

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

So if a former Indian Citizen and a current US citizen, ever takes up Indian Citizen, because the laws change in India will loose US citizenship (unless by act of congress). Any thoughts on how the Indian Govt can ever grant dual nationality to current OCIs?
Click to expand...

The key here is "with the intention to give up US citizenship".

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

According to this, it is OK to take up naturalization, and routine oath of another country as long as in doing so, you did not intent to give up US citizenship. The latest directive also states that one does not have inform state department or consulate abroad about it. It may still be a better idea to inform the state department prior to taking up citizenship of another country, just to affirm your intent.

One thing that is clear in the INA (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA) is that taking up policy-level government position in the foreign coutry is a serious intent of giving up USC.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_779.html

However, the specific case that you have mentioned may come under jus soli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli) and jus sanguinis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis). This is different from seeking naturalized citizenship from a third country. Since India being the country of birth and or the country of birth of the parents, it may come under automatic citizenship, and of course, even to claim such rights you may have to follow some procedures and paper work that in my opinion, should not be construed as voluntarily seeking CZ of another country.
 
Germans used to face a similar issue. Unless one automatically accuired dual citizenship through birth or marriage, one automatically lost his/her German citizenship. So if a German APPLIED for U.S. citizenship prior to 2001, he/she would have lost German citizenship.

In 2001 German law changed. You can now apply to become anything you want and preserve German citizenship IF YOU APPLY FOR AND A GRANTED preservation of German citizenship BEFORE you seek to accuire any other citizenship.

When I filed N-400 in mid January, I had already made up my mind. I had decided that I wanted to be an American, so I decided against applying for preservation of my German citizenship. Once my N-400 journey comes to an end with the oath, I will gladly surrender my German passport.

I am of the opinion you are either or: German or American...or XYZ... . If somebody has two nationalities by birth, more power to him/her, but I am personally not comfortable with voluntarily becoming a dual national for the sake of convenience (ease of travel etc.).

I gladly give up my German passport with all its priviledges (free travel, working anyplace I want within the European Union etc.) to become 110% American.

But hey, it is a FREE COUNTRY (at least on paper), so to each his/her own!

Best wishes and good luck!!!

Nico
 
go_cp said:
Refer to

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

So if a former Indian Citizen and a current US citizen, ever takes up Indian Citizen, because the laws change in India will loose US citizenship (unless by act of congress). Any thoughts on how the Indian Govt can ever grant dual nationality to current OCIs?
Click to expand...
Don't worry the Indian Govt. is not planning to change any laws. So the question you have asked is not likely to arise in the near future. As of now there is no provision for dual citizenship in India
 
JoeF said:
That was actually changed in 2000. I know people who got this "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung."
And it is pretty much targeted towards Germans living in the US. Lots of people didn't want to give up their old citizenship (sentimental reasons, etc.)
I am going to be a dual citizen (US and an EU country) once my N-400 is approved. Besides property and inheritance laws, a major concern for me is to be able to work without issues in both the US and the EU. Last year, I actually had a job offer in the EU that I didn't take because my GC requires me to live in the US...
Click to expand...

Hi Joe!

Right on! The famous "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung"...hehehe...only us Germans can come up with such a long bureaucratic word ;-).

My co-worker will file for her Beibehaltungsgenehmigung soon. Primarily for inheritance reasons. I still think that this is something that could be worked out contractually.

My wife is German (and will be for a few more years), so once I am a "Auslaender" (foreigner) in Germany I will get me a German/Schengen visa through her. I work in D.C. and my job reuqires frequent contacts with the German Embassy and they will expedite my German/EU residency/work visa scenario a little.

Best,
Nico
 
GeeC said:
The key here is "with the intention to give up US citizenship".

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

According to this, it is OK to take up naturalization, and routine oath of another country as long as in doing so, you did not intent to give up US citizenship. The latest directive also states that one does not have inform state department or consulate abroad about it. It may still be a better idea to inform the state department prior to taking up citizenship of another country, just to affirm your intent.

One thing that is clear in the INA (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA) is that taking up policy-level government position in the foreign coutry is a serious intent of giving up USC.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_779.html

However, the specific case that you have mentioned may come under jus soli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli) and jus sanguinis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis). This is different from seeking naturalized citizenship from a third country. Since India being the country of birth and or the country of birth of the parents, it may come under automatic citizenship, and of course, even to claim such rights you may have to follow some procedures and paper work that in my opinion, should not be construed as voluntarily seeking CZ of another country.
Click to expand...

Getting back to OP's question, does anyone have any comment on the US constitution/laws on dual citizenship?
 
go_cp said:
Refer to

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

So if a former Indian Citizen and a current US citizen, ever takes up Indian Citizen, because the laws change in India will loose US citizenship (unless by act of congress). Any thoughts on how the Indian Govt can ever grant dual nationality to current OCIs?
Click to expand...

Refer to http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1139.html

SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES: In 2003, India passed a bill that allows persons of Indian origin in sixteen countries (subsequently extended to almost all countries), including the United States, to apply for a form of dual citizenship known as “Overseas Citizens of India” (OCI). The government recently announced that the process for a person to become an OCI will be launched on August 15, 2005 or shortly thereafter. However, many specific details regarding what rights and obligations apply to a person who applies for OCI status have yet to be clarified. Presently, the Government of India offers a special visa for “Persons of Indian Origin” (PIO). It is contemplated that OCI status will be similar to PIO status. At present, the PIO card allows a person to enter and exit the country without a visa for almost any purpose for any period of time, without the requirement of registering with immigration authorities. However, PIOs cannot vote in Indian elections, and are also subject to other restrictions, such as the ability to own certain types of real property in India. The Embassy understands that similar restrictions may apply to OCIs. The Indian government has indicated that a person who applies for OCI status will not be required to take an oath of allegiance to India. Accordingly, at this time, it is not clear whether an OCI would legally be considered a “national” of India. Information on how to apply for PIO or OCI status can be found on the Indian Embassy’s website at http://www.indianembassy.org/consular/index.htm.

Any person who is considered to have dual nationality as a citizen of both India and the U.S is subject to all Indian laws. Moreover, a dual national also may be subject to other laws and regulations that impose special obligations on Indian citizens, such as taxation. In some instances such as arrest, dual nationality may hamper U.S. Government efforts to provide assistance abroad. Additional general information about dual nationality is available at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html.
 
Under no circumstance can an OCI be considered an Indian National. Accordingly they should have full rights as a US national including counslar protection.
 
hipka said:
Under no circumstance can an OCI be considered an Indian National. Accordingly they should have full rights as a US national including counslar protection.
Click to expand...

But the US state department website's consular information sheet reads as follows.

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1139.html

" .. Any person who is considered to have dual nationality as a citizen of both India and the U.S is subject to all Indian laws. Moreover, a dual national also may be subject to other laws and regulations that impose special obligations on Indian citizens, such as taxation. In some instances such as arrest, dual nationality may hamper U.S. Government efforts to provide assistance abroad."

According to this, it appears that US considers OCI as dual citizenship and that consular protection may not be available for OCIs.

May be as they get more info. on OCI, they might update this page.
 
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