Do I need to join my employer?

P

Pareshan4GC

Registered Users (C)
My I140 and I485 was applied by a company. This is a substitue labor and I dont work for this company.

At what point in time do I need to become a employee of this company (like after EAD or after I140 approval or after I485 approval or never)?
 
By immigration-law you are not required to join before I-485 approval. As long as you have intention and employer is willing to hire you, it's fine.

But, it's good idea to work for sponsering employer during I-140/485 stage. Process is comparatively easy to handle in case of RFE.
 
Thanks for the quick response usnycus.

You say "By immigration-law you are not required to join before I-485 approval". Does that mean that I have to join the employer after my I485 approval?
Some questions that come to my mind ...
1. What if the employer does not need me after the I485 has been approved?
2. What if I have used AC21 portability and taken I485 to another company?
3. What if I dont want to join the employer?

How does NOT JOINING the employer at all effect your citizenship application in the furutre?
 
I don't have first hand experience with any of the three options you have outlined. But let me answer from what I know:

Option one and two are OK from citizenship point of view and as long as you keep documents. You should be fine if you follow proper procedure.

Option three, in terms of immigration law, is a fraud. If USCIS/DOJ finds out about it and they can prove it, you will be in big trouble even after getting citizenship.
 
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I also do not have first have knowledge, and trying to put logic in the information I have. With that –

Scenario 3 - As USNYCUS has mentioned, will be a fraud.
Scenario 1 – Will be obligation default on employer’s part, as employer is justifying at every stage that it needs this employee. I am not sure how it will impact your case.
Scenario 2 – AC21 will let you change the employer who have sponsored your 140 (and there after you can keep on changing). Again I am not sure how you will bring in AC21 here, when you are not working with the 140 sponsering employer.
 
I always wonder how you are going to respond to RFEs asking for previous W2, Paystubs if you are not working for that company. You can start joining the company when you get RFE. Then how to deal with the W2 and paystubs issue?
 
commander said:
I also do not have first have knowledge, and trying to put logic in the information I have. With that –

Scenario 3 - As USNYCUS has mentioned, will be a fraud.
Scenario 1 – Will be obligation default on employer’s part, as employer is justifying at every stage that it needs this employee. I am not sure how it will impact your case.
Scenario 2 – AC21 will let you change the employer who have sponsored your 140 (and there after you can keep on changing). Again I am not sure how you will bring in AC21 here, when you are not working with the 140 sponsering employer.
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Even Scenario 1 is also fraud because employer promise is fake.
Scenario 2 is also OK you can change the intent of joing once you meet the condition set by AC-21.
Scenario 3 is a fraud But not until USCIS proves that you did not have the intent at the time of applying I-485
 
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May or may not be…..

After I-485 approval, company can go bankrupt, or not profitable enough to keep few/many employees. In given unexpected scenario beneficiary/employer cannot do anything and it won't be considered as fraud.

If employer is already declared (i.e before I-485 approval) that beneficiary is not required in future, then it's fraud.

tammy2 said:
Even Scenario 1 is also fraud because employer promise is fake......
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usnycus said:
May or may not be…..

After I-485 approval, company can go bankrupt, or not profitable enough to keep few/many employees. In given unexpected scenario beneficiary/employer cannot do anything and it won't be considered as fraud.

If employer is already declared (i.e before I-485 approval) that beneficiary is not required in future, then it's fraud.
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Strictly speaking in those cases GC becomes void.

To make it interesting, a famous attorney in her (You know who is that) consultation told one my friend, technically his approved GC cannot be used, as he did not send the AC-21 letter. To use the GC he needs join the original employer
.
 
I can see from where she is coming.

But personally I know many who got their GC and never worked even single day for employer, before & after GC approval. They have not applied for citizenship yet, let’s see what happens then.

If I were in your friend shoes, I would have gone other way ignoring her advice.
 
It's perfectly legal to not work for the sponsoring company in any stage befoer getting the GC. However, at the time the I140/485 is approved, the sponsoring company has to intend to offer you a permanant position and you are also willing to join.

AC21 allows the sponsoring company to be changed. It does NOT matter if you ever worked for any of them. As long as either employer intends to offer you permant position when your case is being adjustated, GC should be granted. remember GC is for future employment.
 
Pareshan4GC said:
Thanks for the quick response usnycus.

You say "By immigration-law you are not required to join before I-485 approval". Does that mean that I have to join the employer after my I485 approval?
Some questions that come to my mind ...
1. What if the employer does not need me after the I485 has been approved?
2. What if I have used AC21 portability and taken I485 to another company?
3. What if I dont want to join the employer?

How does NOT JOINING the employer at all effect your citizenship application in the furutre?
Click to expand...


I read your post, thought about it, decided that I probably want to know the answers to these questions as well, did the research, and here is what I found (that is from attorneys).
1. It doesn't matter if he wants you after or not. You can work for any employer you wish. If you kept working for the same employer during the period while your I-485 was pending, everything is documented, you can even leave yourself if you want at this point.
2. That is fine to use AC21 while I-485 is pending as long as 180 days or more since you filed your I-485 have passed. If you do that before 180 have passed since the day you filed your application, you are in trouble and your application can be denied.
3. Is confusing, because it is not clear at all what is it that you are asking. What do you mean by "joing the employer"? When you filed your I-140 you had to be working for that employer. You must remain an employee of the employer that is sponsoring yoru Green Card application. AFTER I-140 has been approved and 180 have passed since you filed your I-485 can you move to other work.

1 and 2 are only regarding I-485, as I stress again, that you must work for the employer that is listed in your I-140 application up to the point it gets approved.

I hope this helped.
 
usnycus said:
I can see from where she is coming.

But personally I know many who got their GC and never worked even single day for employer, before & after GC approval. They have not applied for citizenship yet, let’s see what happens then.

If I were in your friend shoes, I would have gone other way ignoring her advice.
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He did the stamping after waiting for the months
 
I always have this question about future HC and would like to know if anyone has an answer.

GC is clearly for future employment so it's possible for a candidate to receive his/her GC without ever working for the sponsoring company before. However, the company has to intend to hire the candidate indifinately at the time the I485 is being approved.

If my above theory is correct, my questions are:
1) what about I140 RFEs asking for paystubs or W-2? Obviously the candidate has not started working yet thus no paystubs nor W2s.
2) what about I140 RFE asking for EVL? can the employer issue a letter of "intend to hire"?
3) will this case more likely be sent to local interview before I485 approval? Will this candidate pass the interview without having W2, paystubs, but only an intention letter from the sponsoring company.
 
whorl1quote said:
I always have this question about future HC and would like to know if anyone has an answer.

GC is clearly for future employment so it's possible for a candidate to receive his/her GC without ever working for the sponsoring company before. However, the company has to intend to hire the candidate indifinately at the time the I485 is being approved.

If my above theory is correct, my questions are:
1) what about I140 RFEs asking for paystubs or W-2? Obviously the candidate has not started working yet thus no paystubs nor W2s.
An 140 application is filed for proposed employment. So USCIS doesnot expect the W2/Paystubs are from the current sponsoring employer. When any RFE (related to W2/paystub) is raised it is always a good idea to mention that the beneficiary is not currently employed by the sponsorer.

2) what about I140 RFE asking for EVL? can the employer issue a letter of "intend to hire"?
Yes the sponsoring company can respond with an Intend to hire.

3) will this case more likely be sent to local interview before I485 approval? Will this candidate pass the interview without having W2, paystubs, but only an intention letter from the sponsoring company.

I140s are not transferred and there had been no interviews for I-140s so far. If not satisfied USCIS denies the application. If the attorney feels that a denial is wrong and if sufficient documentation is available they can apply for MTR and the case might be reopened if USCIS is satisfied with the supporting documentation.

hth
dyno
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