Do fingerprints really expire!

[GC_TRAP]

As I receive a FP Code1 notice after having had an interview for I-485 adjustment two years ago (I think the Officer did FP and other crap at the time too, ironically I was current at the time of the interview but the Officer screwed me royally; now PD is not current) I can't help but ask a logical question: how can fingerprints expire? If they belong to the same individual, how can they change? Unless that individual has had a run-in with the law and is now on FBI's most wanted list...

1) The argument that USCIS does not have enough disk space to store millions of fingerprint results does not seem to hold ground in this day and age of SAN/NAS, massive storage solutions etc.

2) Another argument that FBI needs to have this done every 15-18 months also seems tame. If the individual has not been charged with any crime, and nothing has changed from the legal perspective, why spend even a few minutes per applicant in going through this exercise.

3) Or, what part of fingerprint taken for let's say I-765 is "NOT" sufficient for an I-485 application? If one has taken a FP for one application in the last three-six months, why can't the results be applied to other applications and shared with the FBI and other "vulture" agencies of the USCIS?

4) Lastly, could these multiple FP notices (excuses) be nothing but PINGs (IT Guys know this) on applicants to see if they are there, at the same address as supplied to USCIS, and if by chance one is not available at the right date/right time, it gives USCIS another excuse to "deny" your case?

Sometimes, I do marvel at the patience of others and myself as we all sail on this boat to Greencard land.

 

[Al_aos]

I am not sure but I dont think you need FPs for EAD's.
For EADs renewal specifically you will need Biometerics.
And yes I do wonder that too that Fps why FP's expire in 15 months. Maybe USCIS knows something we dont ie FP change over time......
I know I have lost hair waiting for the GC .maybe the FPs go light too

 

[GC_TRAP]

No consistency with EAD FPs either...

I was reading the FP page on this forum and there is all kinds of scenarios out there. There are people who got EAD's approved but got no FP notice. Some say that if you do paperfiling, you don't need to do FPs, others say that E-filing usually follows-up with an FP notice.

Guess what? I did paperfiling this time and got an FP notice few weeks later. In fact, I think I have gotten an FP notice every time I did paperfiling and had to renew my EAD.

Now, less than four days remain and I'm struggling to set up an INFOPASS 180 miles from town in this nasty cold weather. What do we pay for then when we pay the application fees? No wonder that most GC aspirants and GC holders have nothing but resentment and dislike for the entire USCIS bureaucracy.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

I was reading the FP page on this forum and there is all kinds of scenarios out there. There are people who got EAD's approved but got no FP notice. Some say that if you do paperfiling, you don't need to do FPs, others say that E-filing usually follows-up with an FP notice.

Guess what? I did paperfiling this time and got an FP notice few weeks later. In fact, I think I have gotten an FP notice every time I did paperfiling and had to renew my EAD.

Now, less than four days remain and I'm struggling to set up an INFOPASS 180 miles from town in this nasty cold weather. What do we pay for then when we pay the application fees? No wonder that most GC aspirants and GC holders have nothing but resentment and dislike for the entire USCIS bureaucracy.

To my knowledge, USCIS goes by the FBI requirements on the finger prints, applicant hardships in following these procedures are sidelined very much post 9/11. Now we are getting status responses like "your AOS will not be complete until back ground check is done" OR "we understand your anxiety but national security is of the highest concern". I feel that this wording is too harsh.

murthy.com has a very good argument that says "if national security is that important, it actually makes sense to clear all the name checks, FPs (instead of waiting on it not doing anything) as fast as possible. Because the more the system delays the more the increased threat to the society from that person". I agree with murthy.

 

[Al_aos]

Guess what? I did paperfiling this time and got an FP notice few weeks later. In fact, I think I have gotten an FP notice every time I did paperfiling and had to renew my EAD.

.

Did you do Biometrics or all ten fingers FPS.
I have read on this forum that you dont get FPs if you apply for your Eads.
You only need Biometrics.

 

[saras76]

Security issues ..

To my knowledge, USCIS goes by the FBI requirements on the finger prints, applicant hardships in following these procedures are sidelined very much post 9/11. Now we are getting status responses like "your AOS will not be complete until back ground check is done" OR "we understand your anxiety but national security is of the highest concern". I feel that this wording is too harsh.

murthy.com has a very good argument that says "if national security is that important, it actually makes sense to clear all the name checks, FPs (instead of waiting on it not doing anything) as fast as possible. Because the more the system delays the more the increased threat to the society from that person". I agree with murthy.

indian_gc_ocean,

I totally agree. There is no doubt that National Security is a huge concern and the US govt has the right to put us immigrants through these checks but the problem is with the implementation and misuse of the system. There have been numerous instances where any and every delay in an applicants process has been generally linked with "Security Checks". Whether the true reason is security checks is anyones guess. Case in point, my AP applications a year or so ago were pending for over 8 months at TSC, every inquiry I and my lawyer made was responded to with the general update of "Security check" pending. After the 9th month I got a hand written letter from some officer in TSC stating that they had lost the AP applications and I had to reapply. They waived the re-application fee. There was no mention of any Security check. The point is that in some cases where the USCIS has screwed up (lost an app, transferred it to the wrong office, misplaced an app) it has been using the excuse of Security Checks to hide its incompetencies or to give it time to fix the mistake. Since the Security Checks take a long time and the whole process is shrouded in so much mystery, it is very easy to blanket every delay under Security Checks. How many immigrants are going to challenge an update of "Security Checks"?

later,

saras

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

I agree with GC_TRAP in pointing out the immigrants hardships in following the processes, UN's comment on the importance of this process to the country and the amount of work involved in specific cases. Having said this, like Saras, my point was to highlight the nonchalant attitude of uscis in reducing the hardships, in doing the necessary followups with fbi, or in setting up a proper communication protocol with agencies and their feedback. Their status responses seem to reflect this attitude and I also doubt the current system just lacks fire in all these departments.

If uscis is using this process to inform us that they are working on the case or if they are taking advantage of loop holes in the system to assist their intended case/PD/cutoff movement, it is certainly deplorable.

After looking at every other person in the namecheck now a days, I am more inclined towards the above point than understanding how fbi manually works on average s/w engineer's backgorund who hardly have speeding ticket.

 

[GC_TRAP]

Interesting responses UN!


However, I disagree with a few of your assessments. The current level of technology in use by law enforcement and FBI is very high. Usually a set of machines called the Identix (amongst others) are used that transmit real-time data to local/state/federal agencies, responses to which can be checked against a large database within minutes, if not seconds. If you are lucky , they carry your mugshots as well that can be sent and received anywhere in America within minutes.

Did I mention I work for a govt. agency and deal with law enforcement every so often? The way the govt. agencies share information is very interesting and very sophisticated. In a matter of minutes, one can check anything from a local police station's database to the FBI database over very secure networks.

I agree that keeping personal data on US residents/citizens can get tricky over long-run, but that's precisely what has been the policy of the US govt. under many different guises. Besides, we are not citizens nor permanent residents yet, in fact, we are forever aliens and always a "potential" threat per se.

In that case, if my fingerprints are deleted (which they are, every 15-18 months) even before a GC has been granted to me, then how do they run a cross-check on me if and when I am caught doing something illegal? They have to run a new set of fingerprints but have no reference point from the time when I had been fingerprinted again and again and again, but the records have probably been deleted after 18 months of obtaining a GC. To my knowledge, GC holders do not have to go in every 18 months to update their FP records?

You give a very fine example of being pulled over by a cop. Here, he runs the query over LEIN and within minutes has most information on you, your driving history, any tickets, misdemeanors etc. This he runs from a laptop in a car that uses real-time requests to query a large database all the way to the State (and sometimes Federal) network. Imagine that! Yet, it takes FBI (using more sophisticated software) upto 2-3 years to finish a fingerprint check on you, or your wife, your 65 year old mother or even your 15 year old son who would otherwise fit into a perfectly harmless category.

National Security is VERY IMPORTANT and America must do what is in her best interest, but this does reek of the stench created by the "PATRIOT ACT" when the cronies of Bush endorsed it and implemented it into law. Only later, more and more cities, townships and libraries across the country stepped forward in opposing it and taming it down. My point being that I have seen working of the Govt. first hand and know that when they want to produce results they will bend laws like no tomorrow to do so. If not, then they hold the law to the letter and continue being indolent.

 

[bigbang2001]

I read somehere USCIS pays pittance to FBI for this. FBI does not have manpower and funds to speed this up. Some senator or congressman wanted funds directed in to this but was taking away money from politicans themselves so the whole thing was shot down.

I strongly believe this is a delibrate tool to keep approval rate down. Why can't USCIS expedite name checks for those whose PD are current or outside the processing time. They are smart people and this is anothe valve to control the flow of visas. The lesser the better in today's environment.

Check some of the statistics and coordination between ICE and bureau of prisions and state prisons. People who did violent crimes finish their sentence and are then deported. They have a mechanism to find people who commit crimes and deport them after they have gotten greencard.

Other case I referenced was a lady from Holland who had been convicting of certain marijuana offences. When she was coming from Europe; department ofhomeland runs a check across peoples names and this came up. They were waiting for her at the border when plane landed.


If you call the FBI to ask them whether they received fingerprints and if they sent the results back; you would be impressed with the speed. Usually from the time you go to give fingerprints; it is sent to fbi; fbi processes and sends back to uscis within one hour.

Fingerprinting isn't the problem in delays. Problem is background/name check.

What is the easiest way to fool a computer? Change a variable. Invert your name, change date of birth; use different mother maiden name, difference city of birth, etc. If computer is looking for 100% match on variables then one slight change will cause it to not have a match. However, in name check/background check if xx% of the variables are the same then they have to rule you out.

There is much more then criminal/terrorist. If there is another person with similar profile as you who has applied for immigration benefit in the past then they have to find his/her file and rule that person out. Not all files of USCIS/FBI have been digitized. They have to locate the files and then rule you out.

I deal with enough people that you would be surprised at how USCIS can figure out information that one is trying to hide. Person files 140/485 employment base and answers that 485 has never been filed. USCIS in RFE says according to our records that you filed a marriage base case on xxx in xx office.

Another person who tried to conceal they were on J-1 subject to home residency requirement. USCIS figured it out and sent an RFE.

Sometimes if they find birth certificate, experience letters or education documents a little iffy they will get consulate in your home country to research it.

The list goes on and on of what they are trying to check. It is not as simple as just looking for criminals, terrorists. Since much of this process is manual it can cause an extreme slowdown. Unfortunately, a lot of people make money in this process so you won't see any easing/relaxing of this. Especially since we are funding it with our fees.

 

[bigbang2001]

Then how does WOM trigger a quick decision. It still goes through USCIS to FBI. USCIS does not control FBI but it does control the list it gives to FBI for expediting.

The number thing is interesting. Did they show all 140K ? How about previous years ?

Isn't it easy to put the blame on another agency for delays ? USCIS comes out kosher with 6 months processing time while blame is on FBI.

always comes back to conspiracy theory doesn't it???

USCIS doesn't control FBI checks. the last year where statistics were available all greencard quota was used. Therefore, how could it be deliberate.

 

[bigbang2001]

UN I do not harbor the conspiracy theroy. I can not digest that USCIS can trumpet that only 10000 cases are backlogged. Years back when I read Hitchhikers guide to galaxy, I came across the term SEP. Somebody Else's Problem. This is exactly what USCIS is doing by pushing the onus on FBI and churning out numbers to come clean.

Your numbers disprove that USCIS is reducing approvals and I tend to agree with that. At the same time there are more people waiting for approvals than indicated by a different set of figures.

I was referencing there fiscal year 2005 when over 250,000 eb greencards were approved. in 2003 and 2004 they missed by close to 50,000. At that time they were re-tooling their process on the fly to meet the concerns of FBI, department of homeland security, etc.

It is difficult to see how educated/reasonable people would think this way. don't let a small sample of people using WOM to get approved leads to a conclusion that there is a conspiracy theory.

 

[saras76]

Shift the blame ..

UN I do not harbor the conspiracy theroy. I can not digest that USCIS can trumpet that only 10000 cases are backlogged. Years back when I read Hitchhikers guide to galaxy, I came across the term SEP. Somebody Else's Problem. This is exactly what USCIS is doing by pushing the onus on FBI and churning out numbers to come clean.

Your numbers disprove that USCIS is reducing approvals and I tend to agree with that. At the same time there are more people waiting for approvals than indicated by a different set of figures.

bigbang2001,

You have correctly pointed out that the problem is incompetence coupled with attitude. Every agency points to the other as the culprit when things go wrong. So long as the blame can be shifted, everyone is happy. Since 9/11, the USCIS has found another convenient avenue to deflect criticism. The FBIs standard response is that they do not have the resources and Name Checks for immigrants are the bottom of their priority list. The US govt could care less for a few thousand immigrants stuck in Namechecks. There are bigger fish to fry. The best thing one can hope for is that they do not get stuck in one of these checks. Only congressional inquiries and lawsuits are a way out for these people. I do not see any resolution to this problem. A total overhaul of the security check process is the only way. This will not happen in the short term.

All of us need to realize that we are dealing with govt agencies. Whether its the US or some other country, govt agencies just cannot be relied upon to do things efficienty. They may do some things properly but there are always going to be things that you just wish you never get stuck in ... Name Check and other Security Checks are two shining examples.

cheers,

saras