citizenship question

M

money2

New Member
i am new to the forum, so please be kind.got my Green card in 2002
i was arrested for shoplifting in 2003 and pled no contest and got 6 months of probabtion and paid 300 dollars fee. the case was expunged later and i have had no problems with the law prior to that or after that, no driving tickets also
i am in 2 minds now, should i apply for citizenship or not and also should i go with a local attorney or go with RK, but i live in a different state.
any help will be appreciated.
 
I don't see why you wouldn't apply. In all honestly an attorney is not necessary initially. Just fill out your N-400 completely and honestly. Whatever instructions that is listed on the N-400 should be follow. During the interviewing process if they require additional evidence it will be mention at that time and you will be given a window of time to submit the necessary supporting documentations.
 
If you do apply (which if I was you I would), make sure you are 100% truthful and fully declare the arrest and conviction on the N-400. Also, gather together all the court records and submit a copy of them with the application.
 
Shoplifting can be a deportable offense, depending on the specifics of the case. And expungement means nothing to USCIS, they still see it as a real conviction. You absolutely should consult an attorney and show them the details (court records, etc.) of your case before applying.
 
money2 said:
i am new to the forum, so please be kind.got my Green card in 2002
i was arrested for shoplifting in 2003 and pled no contest and got 6 months of probabtion and paid 300 dollars fee. the case was expunged later and i have had no problems with the law prior to that or after that, no driving tickets also
i am in 2 minds now, should i apply for citizenship or not and also should i go with a local attorney or go with RK, but i live in a different state.
any help will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Expunge only means the record is removed from the court for public access.
The results may still be in FBI/police records. If FBI has no such record,
it only means the local police never report to FBI.
 
Jackolantern said:
Shoplifting can be a deportable offense, depending on the specifics of the case. And expungement means nothing to USCIS, they still see it as a real conviction. You absolutely should consult an attorney and show them the details (court records, etc.) of your case before applying.
Click to expand...

If it is deportable, one has to live in fear for the rest of the life. The only way
is to get citizenship and get it overwith.
 
Jackolantern said:
And expungement means nothing to USCIS, they still see it as a real conviction. You absolutely should consult an attorney and show them the details (court records, etc.) of your case before applying.
Click to expand...

Expungement may have a mitigating effect. It is only for not-so-serious offense so USCIS may more likely think the oofense is not serious. The same thing can be said about those diversionary programs. So the original poster should bring this court' expungement order together with other court docuemnts. I thinkExpuengement order can help USCIS to understand you have been really rehabitated.

Is there such expungement that a judge not just order teh record to be sealed but physically destroyed from all governments record (and the judge even go toextreme to have his own expeungement record destroyed) so that
no one knows it anymore? If you disclose it, you can not even
prove it actually happened because you don't have court docuemnt to
back it up (assuming you dit not get teh document before expunegement).
 
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AmericanWannabe said:
If it is deportable, one has to live in fear for the rest of the life.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. There is a bill being pending right now (HR 264 introduced by Shela Jackson-Lee of Texas) that would remove expunged convictions and deferred judgments from being treated as convictions for immigration purposes. If this doesn't pass, another similar one may pass 5 or 10 years from now.

If such a bill becomes law, I'm sure they won't un-deport people who were already deported for expunged convictions, so there is some benefit to postponing the decision to apply rather than applying now to get it over with.
 
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AmericanWannabe said:
Expungement may have a mitigating effect. It is only for not-so-serious offense so USCIS may more likely think the oofense is not serious. The same thing can be said about those diversionary programs.
Click to expand...
If it is a deportable offense, expungement doesn't mitigate anything. They still see you as guilty. Expungement only helps for the gray area cases where it's not deportable but they have to make a subjective judgment of moral character.
Is there such expungement that a judge not just order teh record to be sealed but physically destroyed from all governments record (and the judge even go toextreme to have his own expeungement record destroyed) so that no one knows it anymore?
Click to expand...
No. FBI will always have a record of it, even if the original court doesn't have the records any more.
 
Jackolantern said:
Not necessarily. There is a bill being pending right now (Shela Jackson-Lee of Texas) that would remove expunged convictions and deferred judgments from being treated as convictions for immigration purposes.

If such a bill becomes law, I'm sure they won't un-deport people who were already deported for expunged convictions, so there is some benefit to postponing the decision to apply rather than applying now to get it over with.
Click to expand...

How long will such bill take to pass or fail? If it takes less time than N-400 process, maybe one start filing now and hope the bill will pass by the time
of the interview.

Therer is also a risk maybe some other lawmakes willl propose a bill that is even harsher. So eitherway there is a risk that is exactlky what I meant
by saying one has to live in fear for the rest of life unless you get citizenship or decide not to live here anymore.
 
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Jackolantern said:
If it is a deportable offense, expungement doesn't mitigate anything. .
Click to expand...

Deportable does not mean mandatory deportable. There are many posts
here about many getting their citizenship with such deportable offenses.

One big example is that failure to file AR-11 when moving is clearly defined as deportable offense even without a conviction but no one cares about it.

If everyone is truthful, then most of aliens who failed at leats onece to report AR-11 shoudl report Yes to the question: have you commited an offense without being arreested?"
 
AmericanWannabe said:
Therer is also a risk maybe some other lawmakes willl propose a bill that is even harsher. So eitherway there is a risk that is exactlky what I meant by saying one has to live in fear for the rest of life unless you get citizenship or decide not to live here anymore.
Click to expand...
If the lawyer shows it is deportable under current law, it is a bigger risk to go ahead and apply now and face a 90% chance of deportation, than to wait and see what happens with this law or future laws that may be better or worse.

If you prefer to be deported soon rather than living in fear of deportation, that's your choice. But not everybody will share that choice with you.
 
Deportable does not mean mandatory deportable. There are many posts here about many getting their citizenship with such deportable offenses.
Click to expand...
How do you know they were mandatory deportable offenses? If it is not something obviously terrible like murder or rape or kidnapping, whether it is mandatory deportable, or even deportable at all, depends on the specific details of the case. Shoplifting isn't always deportable, but it can be.
AmericanWannabe said:
One big example is that failure to file AR-11 when moving is clearly defined as deportable offense even without a conviction but no one cares about it.
Click to expand...
It is not a mandatory deportable offense. Deportation for failing to file AR-11 is something they "may" do. But anything classified as an aggravated felony under immigration law (even if it's a misdemeanor under state law) brings mandatory deportation, unless one is successful at obtaining a waiver. Shoplifting can fall into that category.

http://www.uscis.gov/addresschange
A willful failure to give written notice to the USCIS of a change of address within 10 days of the change is a misdemeanor crime. If convicted, the alien (or parent or legal guardian of an alien under age 14 who is required to give notice) can be fined up to $200 or imprisoned up to 30 days, or both. The alien may also be subject to removal from the United States. (INA § 266(b)).
Click to expand...
Again, it's up to each individual to decide whether to apply now and see what happens, or go on living their life and hope nothing happens. But in either case, somebody with a potentially deportable crime should consult a lawyer to get a realistic idea of the potential consequences and risks (or lack thereof) of applying vs. not applying.
 
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Jackolantern said:
If the lawyer shows it is deportable under current law, it is a bigger risk to go ahead and apply now and face a 90% chance of deportation,
Click to expand...

It depends where you are now. If a young alien still has strongties with
his home country in both career and family matters, I would suggest file now
and get over with it. Either you get citizenship or you get deported and be done with it. Going back to teh home country may be better than living in fears.

Of course. for very old people. it does not amtter either way either. If you can get deported at age of 90, you are lucky. Many won't live that long.

The dillemma is with maybe middle aged people with strong familiy and career ties here.
 
money2 said:
i am new to the forum, so please be kind.got my Green card in 2002
i was arrested for shoplifting in 2003 and pled no contest and got 6 months of probabtion and paid 300 dollars fee. the case was expunged later and i have had no problems with the law prior to that or after that, no driving tickets also
i am in 2 minds now, should i apply for citizenship or not and also should i go with a local attorney or go with RK, but i live in a different state.
any help will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I also heard for your offense the maximum possible sentence rathern than what you actually got matters. I don't know if it true or not
 
Jackolantern said:
Again, it's up to each individual to decide whether to apply now and see what happens, or go on living their life and hope nothing happens. But in either case, somebody with a potentially deportable crime should consult a lawyer to get a realistic idea of the potential consequences and risks (or lack thereof) of applying vs. not applying.
Click to expand...

I don't think one has a chance to avoid it anyway. During green card renewal I-90 biometrics appointment, you will be asked for past arrest/conviction record anyway.

If renewal greend card and citizenship application are equal risky, why not try
the later? If you get thru the former, you still have to worry about it for next renewal.
If you get thru the later, you truly can leave everything behind.
 
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AmericanWannabe said:
If renewal greend card and citizenship application are equal risky, why not try
the later?
Click to expand...
They are not equally risky. They don't do an FBI name check for the GC renewal (although they do the less intensive IBIS and fingerprint checks). And the I-90 doesn't even ask if you were arrested nor does it require any court dispositions; without the court records they usually won't have the information necessary to figure out if a minor offense meets the criteria for deportability.
 
Jackolantern said:
They are not equally risky. They don't do an FBI name check for the GC renewal (although they do the less intensive IBIS and fingerprint checks). And the I-90 doesn't even ask if you were arrested nor does it require any court dispositions; without the court records they usually won't have the information necessary to figure out if a minor offense meets the criteria for deportability.
Click to expand...

If this is true, then I take back what I said before. But I do read from the internet that biometrics appointment letters ask you
to disclose if you commoiited any offenses and bring documents if Yes (e.g, http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080915180748AAoJWCu)

I don't think many offense enter FBI records due to the facts that local police are too lazy to report or report incorrectly to FBI
(there was once a report saying FBI complains 40% of fingerprining sent from the local polices are not readable)
.and if I-90 process does not involve asking such questions, you don't have the dillema of
choosing telling truth and face deportation and hide it but create one more
offense (lying).

But anyway, it is like an ostrich hiding its head in the sand. If one can get away from several times I-10 without trouble, that
is good enough. People only live that long.
 
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