Citizen Planning on Marrying F-1 Student Visa Holder

[rajnee]

Hello,
I am a US Citizen planning on marrying a F-1 Student.... planning on going to India for the religious ceremmony over Christmas. I have a couple of questions:
1. Should we get married here and how long would it take to get the paper work done including processing of I-130/485? Do we need to fill out any paper work prior to getting married?
We are planning on visiting India - then does she need to apply Advance Parole - I believe this takes 2 months!
2. or should we get married in India, and she would come back on her F-1 visa and we can start her I-130 processing after coming back to the US.

Thanks,

 

[vsriniva]

Marriage can happen in US or India - it should be a legal one, that's all.

1) No paperwork required before marriage. you can check the timelines for estimate
2) I am not sure how long it takes for advance parole. Approx. 2-3 months seems a good estimate
3) If u get married in India, she can come back in F1 Visa ( assuming she still has valid visa and plan to study); then u can apply for I-130 for her.

/VJ

 

[candyattitude]

becareful about point 3. she can come back if her f-1 is valid, but she is entering the country on non-immigrant status with the intention of immigrating. some officers might have an issue with it. i don't know if the POE officers don't mind it.
when you apply for i-130 also tell her to apply for i-485 since you are a citizen and she is immediately eligible for AOS.

 

[garrulito]

Been There

I used to be an F-1 student and had the chance to go back to my country with my wife about three times. There is no problem about doing this if you take a few measures.

When you eneter the US, she as a citizen can go to the US Citizen line but NOT him, so if each person go to the corresponding line theywill not see you together. Also, there is no way for them to check in their system if you are married, the only information they have about the F-1 is if he is still on status and is eligible to re-enter the country, prety much, as long as he doesn't tell the officer he just got married to a USC and is now a potential immigrant everything should be fine. This is not lying, not unethical, the problem is in the action the officers take when they tag you as a "potential immigrant", that's when they deny you re-entry in the US.

One more thing! it helps to take your ring off for when you talk to the officer, yeah, I know, it's weird but they system has a lot of flaws like that.

 

[sarrebal]

I used to be an F-1 student and had the chance to go back to my country with my wife about three times. There is no problem about doing this if you take a few measures.

When you eneter the US, she as a citizen can go to the US Citizen line but NOT him, so if each person go to the corresponding line theywill not see you together. Also, there is no way for them to check in their system if you are married, the only information they have about the F-1 is if he is still on status and is eligible to re-enter the country, prety much, as long as he doesn't tell the officer he just got married to a USC and is now a potential immigrant everything should be fine. This is not lying, not unethical, the problem is in the action the officers take when they tag you as a "potential immigrant", that's when they deny you re-entry in the US.

One more thing! it helps to take your ring off for when you talk to the officer, yeah, I know, it's weird but they system has a lot of flaws like that.

What about if the officer asks you if you're married?
It happened to me once when I was entering on a simple Visa Waiver years ago on a business trip.
The way you described could work, but it's illegal IMO.
And even if you're not discovered at the POE, the question will be raised at the AOS interview. And the intent to immigrate is clear, since you're already married.

I would just follow the legal way if I were the OP.

 

[pianoplayer]

What about if the officer asks you if you're married?
It happened to me once when I was entering on a simple Visa Waiver years ago on a business trip.
The way you described could work, but it's illegal IMO.
And even if you're not discovered at the POE, the question will be raised at the AOS interview. And the intent to immigrate is clear, since you're already married.

I would just follow the legal way if I were the OP.

I agree 100% with this. What Garrulito is offering, is VERY DANGEROUS advice, which IMO is quite simply ILLEGAL. As a human being, I can quite understand why such advice might appear "sensible" ---- after all, why jump through a bunch of unnecessary loops when it can be done in a much more convenient way? Why? Simple answer :quite simply because the law requires it.

 

[garrulito]

Completely Legal

These are the reasons why this is absolutely legal:

-The officer at the POE interviews you to veryfy you are in fact a student in the US.
-Why, after marrying a US citizen would you go to the line that says: "US Citizens only"
-You were already in the US
-USCIS clearly states in the Advance Parole application instructions that an immigration officer MAY deny entry into the US to certain individuals, not that they will do whatever possible to deny you from re-entering the US.

I expressed only my opinion and it should not be taken as legal advice. This worked for me and I never lied to any immigration officer, they are the ones who ask you for "yes" and "no" answers. I have never been asked more than my major, school, where the school is and when I plan to graduate, like I said, if you act as someone who deserves privileges (going to the USC line int he POE) they will obviously ask you if you are married and, therefore, treat you unjustly sayin that you are a "potential immigrant"

 

[sarrebal]

-USCIS clearly states in the Advance Parole application instructions that an immigration officer MAY deny entry into the US to certain individuals, not that they will do whatever possible to deny you from re-entering the US.

If you already have advance parole, it means that you already applied for AOS and therefore your status in AOS pending. It is perfectly legal to leave the country and re-enter as AOS pending (just people who have been out-of-status, therefore illegal, could be denied re-entry).

 

[pianoplayer]

These are the reasons why this is absolutely legal:

-The officer at the POE interviews you to veryfy you are in fact a student in the US.
-Why, after marrying a US citizen would you go to the line that says: "US Citizens only"
-You were already in the US
-USCIS clearly states in the Advance Parole application instructions that an immigration officer MAY deny entry into the US to certain individuals, not that they will do whatever possible to deny you from re-entering the US.

I expressed only my opinion and it should not be taken as legal advice. This worked for me and I never lied to any immigration officer, they are the ones who ask you for "yes" and "no" answers. I have never been asked more than my major, school, where the school is and when I plan to graduate, like I said, if you act as someone who deserves privileges (going to the USC line int he POE) they will obviously ask you if you are married and, therefore, treat you unjustly sayin that you are a "potential immigrant"

You are making the argument I expected you would make --- hypothetically, if you went to the visitors like(which you should anyways, since you are not a PR or USC, I agree with you here!) and no one asked you any questions, you could "slip through the cracks".

However, many POE officers DO ask about marital status these days ---- it is not uncommon. Also, taking your ring off, suggests that you do not plan to be honest.

A final note, even if you do "slip through the cracks", you are still doing something illegal. Why? Because you have no right to enter the US under a student visa anymore when you are married and intend to adjust status. It is against the law to enter the country with intent that is different to that of the visa.

Now, a small group of cases sometimes arise where the student/nonimmigrant is married to a USC, but does not wish to immigrate/adjust status. In that case, provided you are honest if the officer asks if you are married, and provided that the officer believes you and admits you, you have done nothing illegal, because your INTENT has not changed.

In your case, it appears to me that you did plan to immigrate. That makes a big difference.

Also, do not bring AP into the conversation. Once you have AP, you can most definitely not enter on a student visa, since an AP is given usually for an I485 pending claim ---- which means that no POE officer would even be interested in your prior student visa. In your given hypothetical, the person has likely not yet filed for I485 or AP, but attempts to enter on student visa even though being married and having intent to adjust status.

 

[garrulito]

Last Reply

The procedure I described was in fact experienced by me. I was an F-1, i re-entered the country to go to school, this was not about holding an F-1 as a step-stone to immigrate. I beleive this is the case of many F-1 students that marry US citizens. On the other hand, I still don't think it is something illegal to go to your line, answer the questions. I have never been asked aboiut my marital status as an F-1 student and I usually used to re-enter the country 3 times a year.

If your fiancee or spouse has not files an I-130 I don't see where the intent to immigrate is, the opther thing is, immigration in the country was never a priority to me, that is why I waited over a year to file all these forms. The FACT was, I re-enter the country as a student.

 

[chloeguo]

I don't think taking off your ring is ethical.

I was married to a USC before I got my F1 visa. I think it's up to the consulate officer to grant F1 visa after they have the true information of your marriage status. There's no 100% gurantee they will give you F1 visa, but trying to cover it is certianly lying.

 

[sushant06]

Track Family Based

http://www.trackitt.com/usa-immigration-trackers/family-based/

 

[pianoplayer]

The procedure I described was in fact experienced by me. I was an F-1, i re-entered the country to go to school, this was not about holding an F-1 as a step-stone to immigrate. I beleive this is the case of many F-1 students that marry US citizens. On the other hand, I still don't think it is something illegal to go to your line, answer the questions. I have never been asked aboiut my marital status as an F-1 student and I usually used to re-enter the country 3 times a year.

If your fiancee or spouse has not files an I-130 I don't see where the intent to immigrate is, the opther thing is, immigration in the country was never a priority to me, that is why I waited over a year to file all these forms. The FACT was, I re-enter the country as a student.

You did not read my opinion above correctly.

First, I do not dispute that this worked for you. It has worked for many, the question is whether it is legal.

Second, I never claimed you initially tried to get an F1 to get a GC. I realize that you got married after you had an F1 visa and had studied here.

Third, I have drawn an exception for people that do not plan to immigrate. You may have problems at the POE, but people that just want e.g. finish study and then return to their home country with their USC spouse ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, because they do not have INTENT to immigrate.

Here, I am not judging your situation. I do not know whether you had intent to stay in the US after your studies. However, if someone is 1)on an F1 visa, 2)gets married to a USC, AND 3)plans to stay in the US permanently with that spouse, you may NOT legally enter on an F1 visa, even if you remain a student ---- your INTENT has changed. Note carefully: ALL THREE CONDITIONS have to be met for the rule to apply, i.e. in the exception above, if the person intends to return to their home country, the rule does not apply. Whether you can convince the POE officer that you do not have intent to stay is another matter, but that is a practical issue ---- legally speaking, if you do not have intent to stay, you are doing nothing wrong by entering on the F1 visa, even if married to a USC.

Note though, that saying immigration is not a high priority is different to saying I dont have intent to stay permanently in the US. Only the lack of intent excuses you ---- if you do have intent, regardless of what "priority" it is in your life, you have a DUTY to not enter on a student visa.

This is where you are wrong in saying "I still don't think it is illegal to go to your line and answer the questions." You cannot just do this, because you have no right to enter on a different intent to that specified by your visa. You have an affirmative duty to enter with the CORRECT INTENT on the CORRECT VISA.
An example outside of the immigration context: e.g. if you know there are no funds in your bank account, but you write a check anyway. Just because that person doesn't ask you: "hey is it a good check you're writing me?", doesn't mean that your action of writing the check is lawful.

Entering on a student visa while having immigrant intent, is in reality like lying by omission. Can it be done? Of course, people do it all the time. Is it legal? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I think this is very clear, but if you do not understand, please feel free to ask.

 

[gopher97]

I don't think taking off your ring is ethical.

I was married to a USC before I got my F1 visa. I think it's up to the consulate officer to grant F1 visa after they have the true information of your marriage status. There's no 100% gurantee they will give you F1 visa, but trying to cover it is certianly lying.

can the US consulate determine marital status when a candidate applies for an F1 visa other than from the candidate himself?

 

[chloeguo]

can the US consulate determine marital status when a candidate applies for an F1 visa other than from the candidate himself?

They may have the means but I don't think they have the time to do the checking. During my interview for F1, which is very short, there's no question concerning my marriage.

 

[machelon]

This is where you are wrong in saying "I still don't think it is illegal to go to your line and answer the questions." You cannot just do this, because you have no right to enter on a different intent to that specified by your visa. You have an affirmative duty to enter with the CORRECT INTENT on the CORRECT VISA.
An example outside of the immigration context: e.g. if you know there are no funds in your bank account, but you write a check anyway. Just because that person doesn't ask you: "hey is it a good check you're writing me?", doesn't mean that your action of writing the check is lawful.

Entering on a student visa while having immigrant intent, is in reality like lying by omission. Can it be done? Of course, people do it all the time. Is it legal? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I think this is very clear, but if you do not understand, please feel free to ask.

Pianoplayer...I agree with your advice on the legal procedures...but just stop from going beyond that and trying to get into the "real" intent of people..and trying to tell them that its illegal...or not. I think we went over this already.
When anybody enters the US on a non-immigrant visa...one has to make sure to show enough proof that your do not have the intent is to immigrate. What really happens on your mind...is not really important....you said this yourself.
You are no one to judge people's feelings or real intentions...cause you don't know them and cause you are not any god.
Lets just leave it at what our passports and documents prove.
Like Garrulito said I don't think the intent to immigrate would be shown if no one has petition yet for the OP spouse. She is in the "eyes of the law" (your very own words) still a non-immigrant.
Now...I agree that at the time of the subsequent AOS interview...the Im Officer might have questions of why she entered on F-1 after married. I agree we have to advice the OP that it might be wiser to abandon F-1 status and try to get the K-3 visa for his spouse to re-enter the US...or smtg else.
But let's keep our personal opinions of what is legal to think or feel just to ourselves.

 

[pianoplayer]

Pianoplayer...I agree with your advice on the legal procedures...but just stop from going beyond that and trying to get into the "real" intent of people..and trying to tell them that its illegal...or not. I think we went over this already.
When anybody enters the US on a non-immigrant visa...one has to make sure to show enough proof that your do not have the intent is to immigrate. What really happens on your mind...is not really important....you said this yourself.
You are no one to judge people's feelings or real intentions...cause you don't know them and cause you are not any god.
Lets just leave it at what our passports and documents prove.
Like Garrulito said I don't think the intent to immigrate would be shown if no one has petition yet for the OP spouse. She is in the "eyes of the law" (your very own words) still a non-immigrant.
Now...I agree that at the time of the subsequent AOS interview...the Im Officer might have questions of why she entered on F-1 after married. I agree we have to advice the OP that it might be wiser to abandon F-1 status and try to get the K-3 visa for his spouse to re-enter the US...or smtg else.
But let's keep our personal opinions of what is legal to think or feel just to ourselves.

Well, but of course you are quoting me out of context here. The above comment was directed at someone, who entered the US on a nonimmigrant visa, married and with an admitted intent to immigrate.

I have never claimed that the pure fact that you are married to a USC changes your intent to immigrate --- in fact, if you read my other posts here, you will see that I argued against that. If I recall I wrote that, just because someone marries a USC, does not mean that they want to immigrate --- they may want to live abroad together etc. etc.

But if someone is married to a USC, enters the US on a student visa, with the purpose of doing AOS as soon as he arrives, that is immigration fraud. No grey area in the law about that. The hard thing is to determine whether that person has that purpose. Since the law cannot look inside someone's head, it looks at manifestations of intent as discussed in my above posts.

 

[pianoplayer]

The problem is, Machelon, that you and Garrulito both want to fashion and shape this whole issue the way you want it to be. You are not the only ones --- it would be much easier if someone could just come on a nonimmigrant visa and adjust status on arrival. That way everyone gets to be together throughout the process, people don't spend lots of time apart etc.

Unfortunately, that is not the way it is. People can try and cut the corners and Garrulito keeps telling me each time how he/she(?) entered each time to visit on an F1 visa with immigrant intent. Quite frankly, I don't care how many times Garrulito managed to pull it off. We are in the business here of giving people advice to do it the correct way --- the legal way. There are many people that will tell you how to cut the corners, incl. some attorneys in a one-on-one consultation. That is, however, not persuasive to me.

 

[machelon]

The problem is, Machelon, that you and Garrulito both want to fashion and shape this whole issue the way you want it to be. .

I thought you were the first one to say there is no grey area here. No matter how I or YOU think about it...or how we "fashion" the issue....the rules are the rules...and everyone follows them.

We are in the business here of giving people advice to do it the correct way --- the legal way.

We are in the business of telling people how to play by the rules and what to do in order to not get in trouble. I will always make sure we draw the line very clearly here. Because it frightens me when people like you assume that they know what is the "correct way" of thinking, and venture into telling people how to feel in their minds. I think we should simply stop at giving good advice to people and help them follow the laws to succeed in their cases.
But no one really needs a Dr Phil of immigration here.

 

[pianoplayer]

I thought you were the first one to say there is no grey area here. No matter how I or YOU think about it...or how we "fashion" the issue....the rules are the rules...and everyone follows them.



We are in the business of telling people how to play by the rules and what to do in order to not get in trouble. I will always make sure we draw the line very clearly here. Because it frightens me when people like you assume that they know what is the "correct way" of thinking, and venture into telling people how to feel in their minds. I think we should simply stop at giving good advice to people and help them follow the laws to succeed in their cases.
But no one really needs a Dr Phil of immigration here.

Machelon:

I have always given people advice on the premise that they should follow the law. I have never told you or anyone else what they should think in their minds. That is thought control ---- see my very first post on this topic.

I don't give a "rat's behind" what you think in your head or what anyone else thinks. That is NOT what defines intent. Intent is judged by law as an objective manifestation by the person's acts. (see the numerous posts I have explained this in to you).

Look, this is what we know the law says:
It is illegal for a person to enter the US on a NONIMMIGRANT VISA, when they in fact have immigrant intent. (It remains illegal, whether they take their ring off or not, no matter in what line they stand, no matter whether they get discovered by the officer or not ---- it is always illegal, whether the person gets away with it or not. There is no need for me to go into anyone's mind to say that. I don't need to analyse or judge anyone's thoughts.

Now, in the above statement, what qualifies as intent? As I have layed it out for you before, it is not the person's personal thoughts that matter, because we cannot look inside the person's head. We cannot tell people what to think.
Instead, the law discovers the intent by looking at the manifestation of that intent, i.e. mainly by a person's actions. Once again, we are not telling anyone what to think, we are judging their ACTIONS. Certain actions demonstrate intent to immigrate, other's don't.

e.g. marriage to a USC does not necessarily demonstrate intent to immigrate. A foreign student can enter perfectly legally on a student visa, even if he is married to a USC, as long as there is no manifestation of intent at that time to immigrate. Who knows, maybe he wants to finish his studies and then he and his spouse may want to go and live in Italy? Therefore, one cannot judge marriage to a USC as a definitive manifestation of intent to immigrate. [In reality, a foreign student may have difficulty at the POE, just because this scenario makes officers suspicious, but LEGALLY such a student would have done nothing wrong]

The time frame of actions also influence an intent analysis.
e.g. if a student enters in 2002 to commence study in the US, and files change of status in 2005(due to marriage to a USC, offer of employment etc. etc.), that does not mean that the student did anything illegal. There is no objective manifestation of intent to have immigrated when he arrived in 2002.

However, consider this scenario. A USC marries his foreign wife in e.g. China. The Chinese wife gets a tourist visa, arrives in the US and they file AOS 10 days later. This situation is ALMOST CERTAINLY ILLEGAL(note: I use "almost" because it is seldom that anything is 100% certain in the law, this hypo does not provide enough facts for a thorough analysis). There is an OBJECTIVE MANIFESTATION OF INTENT to immigrate when she entered on the nonimmigrant visa. Not only were they married before, but she filed AOS only 10 days after arrival.

Not all cases are this clear. They fall somewhere on a sliding scale. What the law does, is to examine all facts relevant to OBJECTIVE MANIFESTATIONS OF ASSENT.

You may say, yeah, but if people structure their actions in certain ways they may get away with it. Well, that is correct --- we cannot(as you correctly pointed out) pore into people's heads --- we have to go on an objective analysis of their actions. That's the best the system can do.

Therefore, I do not see why you say that I feel that we should look into people's heads or that I am judging people's thoughts. I don't care if a person comes to the US and thinks in his head "I have to take the first chance I get to immigrate.....I have to take the first chance I get to immigrate". I am not a psychologist, I am not a psychic, that is irrelevant. One only looks at actions demonstrating intent. That is the only fair and objective measurement.

In the original posting, the poster clearly described what he was doing. There was no need for me to peep into his head or judge any of his thoughts. He told us exactly what he was doing. He told us that he was entering on a nonimmigrant visa while he had immigrant intent. I did not need to infer his intent ---- he gave us that. Therefore, his actions are ILLEGAL.

Simple, clear, nothing gray about that. If that makes me a Dr Phil of immigration, then that is what I am. I have no problem with that.