are immigrants suckers??

techy2468

Registered Users (C)
I am going outside USA.....and i cannot beleive i am having to do so much documentation to get my visa stamping......and with the fear that they can deny it...

which brings to my memory US consulates in india, where people used to stand in Queue from morning 4am (i think they dont do it anymore).

and now retrogression and the never ending name check.

annual H1B renewal, annual Driving license renewal.....etc

isnt all this a clear message that USA is not friendly to immigrants....they just dont care..........but we are still desperate to be in the best place on earth :confused:
 
techy2468 said:
I am going outside USA.....and i cannot beleive i am having to do so much documentation to get my visa stamping......and with the fear that they can deny it...

which brings to my memory US consulates in india, where people used to stand in Queue from morning 4am (i think they dont do it anymore).

and now retrogression and the never ending name check.

annual H1B renewal, annual Driving license renewal.....etc

isnt all this a clear message that USA is not friendly to immigrants....they just dont care..........but we are still desperate to be in the best place on earth :confused:

Govt. doesn't care unless and untill they are forced to do so by the political environment. Just look at 12 million illegals, no body cared and no body does but always use this for their favor and against their opponents.
 
Its not like that anymore

Techy,

Its not like that anymore. I went to Delhi consulate at the end of June (after 7 years living in the U.S) for first time stamping.

Ofcourse, nothing comes easy in life. All you need is good preparation.

I kept all the paystubs, W2, Employment letter, Resume, Original Degrees with marksheets from the University here (both Bachelor's and MBA), employer profile (Annual Revenue, etc.), employee list (if possible), bank statements, etc (you can get a list from your attorney or google for it)

Do not drive to the consulate. The heavy traffic can take a toll on your face and make it look stressed. Hire a cab on the day of interview. There is not a long queue anymore. You got to take an appontment online under the 'emergency' category and that makes your life easier.

Do not drink the night before the interview. Do not fight and argue with anyone at home/outside before the interview. Wear proper dress (suit and tie) and be properly groomed when you go there with a smile on your face.

Do not say what you are not asked.

This all should perhaps make your interview a success.

techy2468 said:
I am going outside USA.....and i cannot beleive i am having to do so much documentation to get my visa stamping......and with the fear that they can deny it...
..but we are still desperate to be in the best place on earth :confused:
 
Why should they ..

techy2468 said:
I am going outside USA.....and i cannot beleive i am having to do so much documentation to get my visa stamping......and with the fear that they can deny it...

which brings to my memory US consulates in india, where people used to stand in Queue from morning 4am (i think they dont do it anymore).

and now retrogression and the never ending name check.

annual H1B renewal, annual Driving license renewal.....etc

isnt all this a clear message that USA is not friendly to immigrants....they just dont care..........but we are still desperate to be in the best place on earth :confused:

techy2468,

"Most" people only care when there is some benefit to them or if they feel that another person is more powerful. The truth is that no one has forced us to come here. We may not have known the downsides of the immigration system at the time but we made the decision to move here. The counter argument to any of our complaints is that we are fortunate to even be here and should stop complaining about our condition. After all we are free to quit our jobs and go somewhere else. There is a lot of truth to that ... however, the total collapse of the immigration system and blatant abuse of policies cannot be be justified by saying that immigrants are "lucky" to even be here.
No immigrant will argue that he/she is lucky to be here. Most of us realize that we would not have done as well anywhere else in the world but no one deserves a broken system with no accountability. It is not unreasonable for any individual to expect a resolution to his/her immigration process after 5-6 years of waiting. Isn't this the US of A, the most powerful and fair country in the world that prides itself on the way it handles immigrants. A resolution to our GC process is not a demand .. it is a fair expectation of hardworking, lawabiding immigrants. Unfortunately, in these times we are at the bottom of the barrel and nothing can be done to change that. We just need to make the most of it. Most US Immigrants are resourceful and brave people who have made it this far. Stupid immigration laws cannot and will not stop any of us from progressing. It is only a temporary block in the road for us. I truly believe that ..

regards,

saras
 
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Saras76

Very nicely said and thought provoking.

saras76 said:
techy2468,

"Most" people only care when there is some benefit to them or if they feel that another person is more powerful. The truth is that no one has forced us to come here. We may not have known the downsides of the immigration system at the time but we made the decision to move here. The counter argument to any of our complaints is that we are fortunate to even be here and should stop complaining about our condition. After all we are free to quit our jobs and go somewhere else. There is a lot of truth to that ... however, the total collapse of the immigration system and blatant abuse of policies cannot be be justified by saying that immigrants are "lucky" to even be here.
No immigrant will argue that he/she is lucky to be here. Most of us realize that we would not have done as well anywhere else in the world but no one deserves a broken system with no accountability. It is not unreasonable for any individual to expect a resolution to his/her immigration process after 5-6 years of waiting. Isn't this the US of A, the most powerful and fair country in the world that prides itself on the way it handles immigrants. A resolution to our GC process is not a demand .. it is a fair expectation of hardworking, lawabiding immigrants. Unfortunately, in these times we are at the bottom of the barrel and nothing can be done to change that. We just need to make the most of it. Most US Immigrants are resourceful and brave people who have made it this far. Stupid immigration laws cannot and will not stop any of us from progressing. It is only a temporary block in the road for us. I truly believe that ..

regards,

saras
 
ufo2002 said:
US gov supposed to care about us? Hahaha... best joke I have heard so far.

they would have cared if not for the unlimited supply of skilled people coming on H1 visa...

but my point was, why are we such suckers??.......maybe our home country is not as good that we bend backwards just to be given a chance....
 
My way of responding-accept promotions

Hey Techy,
We are in this shit,but there is a positive. Here is what I think and Iam already doing it. Since Iam in EB3 and do not expect to file 485 soon, I have already accepted one promotion and going to accept more of them if they come my way. I will keep ammending and extending my H-1 (the company has got to pay,not me!). I have even bought a house! that I hope to sell at profit. At the end of it if I choose, I will leave the US of A and go somewhere else. Iam working on breeding a US citizen now. Savings and experience are 2 things that this broken immi system cannot take away from me.

Man! we are In-charge!
 
This is a very loaded topic of discussion...

...and countless studies and debates can prove both sides of the argument. There are skilled versus unskilled migrants, educated versus uneducated, migrants from rich western nations as opposed to poorer asian and african nations and the list can go on.

I think most of our current reaction is simply knee-jerk. We are at the bottom of the barrel, as maybe Saras pointed out, we are at the short end of the stick right now, naturally we are reacting negatively (mostly) and complaining how things are so bad for us. Then we compare the US to Aust, Canada, UK etc etc.

What we do forget is that no other country in the world accepts over a million legal immigrants each year, and several thousand illegals who sneak in, because a life lived in shadows here in still far better than a life lived within the bounds of law in their own countries.

What we fail to remember is that in no other rich country do immigrants, be it east europeans, south asians, brazilians etc. do so remarkably well in the long run. The wealth accumulated, the professional opportunities afforded, the bright future prospects provided to progeny is unparalled in "ANY" other country that accepts immigrants like the United States does. At least, that's the reality of things today. Will the US continue to be the mecca of golden opportunity forever, no one can predict.

Retrogression sucks, this seemingly endless wait sucks, but it's a better "sucks" than a poor, unskilled migrant worker toiling in the fields of Florida, getting exploited at $3/hr, with no permanent dwelling, no health insurance, no future prospects for him or his children. There are countless indians too working menial jobs in hotels, gas stations, some with even undergradute degrees, and they are very "grateful" to be here. And will do anything to do continue to stay here, even break a few laws in the process.

The laws may be broke but is it not the prerogative of the citizens and law-makers of this nation to fix them. Is it akin to a few Americans saying that India should be more lenient and open it's borders for Bangladeshi and Nepali migrants, skilled or otherwise?

First-generation Immigrants are always "OUTSIDERS" and it takes several generations for them to establish deep roots in their new countries. It is not too unreasonable to expect a certain level of resistance and reluctance on the part of host countries in giving you the "privilege" of staying here. To quote an old saying, "it's the horse that goes to the well, not the other way around". We came here out of our own free will. Period.

This discussion is good and healthy and must continue for each one of us to better understand what it means to be an immigrant, and to be an immigrant stuck in a long wait of retrogression, but without gaining some objectivity in our perception, we will continue to react subjectively and consider it a bane to be caught in this process. Frankly, my expectations are not so high of USCIS, nor do I think that I am guaranteed a green card in the 11 years that I have been here. If it comes, wonderful, if not, well, life will go on...with few regrets.
 
i was not talking only about retrogression......the whole immigration process.....starting from the day when your H1 is filed....to the day you go for visa stamping.....and then the scary moments at POE.....

and then filing for extension.....going for revalidation.......where they can deny or delay your visa (you were in USA for 5 years, but they can say they need to do a security check before they will let you go back in :confused: )

they are making it difficult......just because they dont care..........and i guess if we had other equal options we would have quit USA by now.....(i would have definitely done that.....dignified life is more important than a great lifestyle...)

but still USA is far better than any developed country.........they are in demand.....and frankly i want to be here........so i guess i will just suck it up and hope that it does not get worse than this....
 
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i don't think all immigrants are suckers, if you are in ROW your case is adjudicated fast and easy atleast compared to India or china or mexico. so that should not be a problem. there are different classes of immigrants, the ones who work in agriculture,manufacturing...doing hard labor and others like doctors , engineers, professors...while for the latter cateogry, USA is the best option, not the only option. so at some point in the wait, you have to ask yourself...do i feel like a sucker?
some people are in good situation like employed in a Fortune 500 company say, so for them having a physical GC may not mean much in terms of career jump, as they are already close. for others toiling with body shops and getting stuck in GC process for 6+ yrs might be tough. its usually case by case. while some people here feel positive about their situation, it might be because they know they could be worse and hence they feel positive.

at the end of the day how much you want invest your energy and time waiting and sacrificing your career goals to get that eligibility to find the job or work in a place that suits you? that's something every one should ask themselves. there is no one correct or wrong answer to that.

to answer the question do i feel like a sucker? yes i do. i thought i reached the oasis in the desert, only to feel it's nothing but a mirage. i thought i paid my dues by waiting patiently. now all i keep hearing is retrogression in eb-2, 245i cases...namecheck delays...etc etc.
it seems like the journey is not going to end soon..... make me definitely feel like a sucker...part of me wants to quit and move on, part of looks at reality of the situation ( wife's career, things that you own here...etc) and does not mess with the status quo.
i disagree with the poster above that there are countless indians, doing menial jobs , wanting to stay here by hook or crook. just because few people want to be like that, does not make it legal, the norm. if i need to look @ people making $3/hr and be happy, then i guess i can do that in India. there people don't even have clothes to wear and living on foot paths. why do i have to come all the way here to console myself in a philosophical way?

i am not blaming USCIS or USA, but myself. If GC is one's priority in life, then waiting for it is not bad. but if there are other things in life that are worth more than having a GC, then i guess sacrificing those other things to wait for GC makes you a sucker.
 
techy, reading your posts it makes me wonder you flip-flop more than John kerry ever did. on the one hand you say as an immigrant you will suck up and live here. on the other hand you say that you prefer a dignified life more than great lifestyle. which one is it???
i guess in your dictionary sucking up is a dignified lifestyle...is it

our ears were pierced when we were kids....
 
michael.....i beleive in dignified life...and thats why i am disturbed and creating options other than usa (in case things get more worse)..........and i too dont want to disturb the status quo......but i still feel like a sucker when i go to the us consulate for visa stamping and i have to bear with all their BS just because they are the GODs...
 
Privilege

GC_TRAP said:
...and countless studies and debates can prove both sides of the argument. There are skilled versus unskilled migrants, educated versus uneducated, migrants from rich western nations as opposed to poorer asian and african nations and the list can go on.

I think most of our current reaction is simply knee-jerk. We are at the bottom of the barrel, as maybe Saras pointed out, we are at the short end of the stick right now, naturally we are reacting negatively (mostly) and complaining how things are so bad for us. Then we compare the US to Aust, Canada, UK etc etc.

What we do forget is that no other country in the world accepts over a million legal immigrants each year, and several thousand illegals who sneak in, because a life lived in shadows here in still far better than a life lived within the bounds of law in their own countries.

What we fail to remember is that in no other rich country do immigrants, be it east europeans, south asians, brazilians etc. do so remarkably well in the long run. The wealth accumulated, the professional opportunities afforded, the bright future prospects provided to progeny is unparalled in "ANY" other country that accepts immigrants like the United States does. At least, that's the reality of things today. Will the US continue to be the mecca of golden opportunity forever, no one can predict.

Retrogression sucks, this seemingly endless wait sucks, but it's a better "sucks" than a poor, unskilled migrant worker toiling in the fields of Florida, getting exploited at $3/hr, with no permanent dwelling, no health insurance, no future prospects for him or his children. There are countless indians too working menial jobs in hotels, gas stations, some with even undergradute degrees, and they are very "grateful" to be here. And will do anything to do continue to stay here, even break a few laws in the process.

The laws may be broke but is it not the prerogative of the citizens and law-makers of this nation to fix them. Is it akin to a few Americans saying that India should be more lenient and open it's borders for Bangladeshi and Nepali migrants, skilled or otherwise?

First-generation Immigrants are always "OUTSIDERS" and it takes several generations for them to establish deep roots in their new countries. It is not too unreasonable to expect a certain level of resistance and reluctance on the part of host countries in giving you the "privilege" of staying here. To quote an old saying, "it's the horse that goes to the well, not the other way around". We came here out of our own free will. Period.

This discussion is good and healthy and must continue for each one of us to better understand what it means to be an immigrant, and to be an immigrant stuck in a long wait of retrogression, but without gaining some objectivity in our perception, we will continue to react subjectively and consider it a bane to be caught in this process. Frankly, my expectations are not so high of USCIS, nor do I think that I am guaranteed a green card in the 11 years that I have been here. If it comes, wonderful, if not, well, life will go on...with few regrets.

GC_TRAP,

I agree with most of what you have said but the part about immigrants demanding America to be lenient and comparing it to India letting in more Bangladeshis and Nepalis is of the mark. Most of us immigrants are not asking for America to be lenient. We are not demanding them to open the gates for Indian immigrants. Most of us just want a resolution to a long pending case. Where I disagree with you is that I feel that immigrants can and should "expect" some sort of resolution. Why should immigrants lower their "expectations"? Yes we chose to come here, yes we have a decent life here, yes we would be worse of in other places but now that we are here why do we have to make excuses for a broken system. One of the main reasons I came here was the "expectation" that there would be some level of fairness and efficiency in dealings with the government. Now I understand that it was a false expectation but I am not going to justify every move against the immigrant community under the pretext of having the privilege to be here in the first place. I totally agree that it is a privilege but having benefitted from the privilege does not automatically signal to everyone that we immigrants will deal with anything and everything and that we can be treated in anyway.

I agree that my ideas are a little utopian at times and may not be realistic but I firmly believe that a person often gets the least of what society feels the person expects and is happy with. If we immigrants lower our expectations to a level that indicates that anything and everything is okay then we are doing a disservice to us and to future immigrant communities. I am not suggesting that we Indians start demanding ridiculous things but we should try to do out part in letting the general people know of our situation and support bills and legislation that brings some sort of relief. What is more important is to learn from this experience and use it to maybe influence this process and political landscape in the future. Maybe we are helpless now but in the future a lot of us will become citizens and who knows, some of us might find ourselves in the a situation where we will be able to influence some immigration policies.

Again these are my personal views and I am sure most of you will dismiss them as unrealistic. There is no harm in debating this subject ...

regards,

saras
 
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Life of an immigrant ..

techy2468 said:
i was not talking only about retrogression......the whole immigration process.....starting from the day when your H1 is filed....to the day you go for visa stamping.....and then the scary moments at POE.....

and then filing for extension.....going for revalidation.......where they can deny or delay your visa (you were in USA for 5 years, but they can say they need to do a security check before they will let you go back in :confused: )

they are making it difficult......just because they dont care..........and i guess if we had other equal options we would have quit USA by now.....(i would have definitely done that.....dignified life is more important than a great lifestyle...)

but still USA is far better than any developed country.........they are in demand.....and frankly i want to be here........so i guess i will just suck it up and hope that it does not get worse than this....

techy,

What you are describing is the typical life of an immigrant. No matter where we go tons of paper trails will follow us. We chose to live an immigrant life and the truth is that we will have to deal with added pressure that follows imimgrants everywhere. There is no way out of that. It is simply a life choice that we made and we have to learn to deal with it.

regards,

saras
 
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i agree with you saras that we should not lower our expectations......but at the same time.....they are not going to care as long as they can get 10 time more applications than their need is.............they are in demand right now......and they will make us dance to every beat of their tune.......we have invested too much time in this country and we almost feel at home....but we dont have much rights......

imagine if we could recreate a similar life in our home country.....dont you think we would have quit by now???
 
Some good points from Michael...

...So, indeed one can argue that immigration process is "relatively" fair and fast if you are a citizen of the world (barring IN, MX, PH and CH). What indeed is most common in these four countries? We know very large H1-B visa holders from India, next would be China, then nurses or "other" from Phillipines and lastly, both skilled and unskilled, as well as very high family union members from Mexico. At the face of it, it seems to provide reasonable explanation for the retrogression.

Techy, the fears and risks that Indians face in re-validating and re-issuance of visas abroad is not as great as nationals of "those" countries where the pressure at the embassy or queues that start at 4:00 am are virtually non-existent. Could it simply be a matter of "demand and supply"?

Everthing is being reiterated here and there is probably nothing new to be said. And yes, maybe it's only a philosophical point-of-view of consoling oneself by looking at millions in suffering and desperate to come or stay here.

1. When we can control the outcome of a process, we take actions and do so.

2. When we cannot touch the outcome of a process (and this point is debatable unto itself; folks can argue that we can pay more money, lobby harder, pressure the Senators etc.), we must accept the status quo and make the most of it (by engaging in other fruitful, meaningful activity or dialog).

3. When we cannot touch the outcome of a process, yet beat our heads against it (and not find a way to get out of the process altogether), we might run the risk of spinning in circles with no concrete movement forward.

4. Lastly, there is "ALWAYS" a choice we have. Even non-exercising of an availalbe choice is a choice too. Given a choice between becoming extremely despondent in the face of adversity, or chugging on, braving the harsh winds, and having a "never-say-die" attitude, I'd always choose the latter.

Thoughts?
 
That is the problem ..

techy2468 said:
i agree with you saras that we should not lower our expectations......but at the same time.....they are not going to care as long as they can get 10 time more applications than their need is.............they are in demand right now......and they will make us dance to every beat of their tune.......we have invested too much time in this country and we almost feel at home....but we dont have much rights......

imagine if we could recreate a similar life in our home country.....dont you think we would have quit by now???

techy,

In pure supply demand terms, we are totally helpless. The supply is endless and the demand is declining (outsourcing/H1 Bs) so we do not have much leverage. Again this is all part and parcel of immigrant life or life in general. We just have to analyze the situation we are in, identify the pitfalls as well the advantages and then do what we feel is most benefitial to us. Most of us have have spent so much time in this process that abandoning it at this point is almost senseless. Again if ones EB3 India PD is 04-05 and the situation stays the same then it might be better to plan an exit strategy. There is no right answer here. What works for me may be totally unacceptable to another person.

Finally, the whole reason a lot of us are in this mess is because we really do not have to many lucrative alternatives. Our lack of alternatives are well known facts. We know it, the US lawmakers know it and most importantly our companies know it. In such a situation we will continue to survive on whatever is dished out. If some of us really do have good alternatives then its time to act on them. With a PD of August '01 I find myself in a unique dilemma. I am close to April '01 on paper but still 2-3 years away (probably). To be honest I do have decent options outside this country BUT having gone to school here and having spent 6-7 years in this process, it would be stupid to waste it all due to another 2-3 year wait.

regards,

saras
 
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