US MBA/MS studies strategies:wait for GC or not ?

marlon2006

Registered Users (C)
I would like to talk about some productive and proactive actions while we hear lipservice from media and congress.

Do you think you would wait until you get GC, then get employed by employer who can sponsor MBA in the US, or it is better off to take private loan or personal finances and pay for MBA from you own pockets right now ? Interest rates from private loans are a bit high though (~8.5%).

This is my thinking:
I started MBA in my region here. I am not eligible for in-state tuition without GC. You are eligible for US Financial Aid (Loan) once you get AP for one year.

Many employers in this area are paying for MBA.
The program I took cost me $40,000.

Since my PD is April 2002 and I am king of thinking about resuming studies.

Please let me know your experience and also tell me price you are paying for your MS/MBA program.
 
I am not sure if you are currently employed.

If you are eligible to work for any employer, the best strategy is to find a company who pays the most for your MBA.

Also remember not to wait too long to get your MBA. Tuition fees across the country is sky rocketing. I am with the ASU MBA program and the fees have gone by 70% over the last three years.

There are programs that offer flexible MBA options. You can manage your finances by taking fewer classes in this option. Your graduation might be delayed a bit.

You can also earn more once you get your MBA.Earlier the better.

So weight your options.
 
i was in the same shoes as you are 2 years back. i wanted to get an MBA from a top school. Unfortunately, due to the green card hold up i ended up not attending a top 10 but a top 25 Executive MBA program, because i couldn't relocate.

and now i've got a promo at work and also i am refiling my gc under EB2 category....so things worked out pretty good.

marlon2006 said:
I would like to talk about some productive and proactive actions while we hear lipservice from media and congress.

Do you think you would wait until you get GC, then get employed by employer who can sponsor MBA in the US, or it is better off to take private loan or personal finances and pay for MBA from you own pockets right now ? Interest rates from private loans are a bit high though (~8.5%).

This is my thinking:
I started MBA in my region here. I am not eligible for in-state tuition without GC. You are eligible for US Financial Aid (Loan) once you get AP for one year.

Many employers in this area are paying for MBA.
The program I took cost me $40,000.

Since my PD is April 2002 and I am king of thinking about resuming studies.

Please let me know your experience and also tell me price you are paying for your MS/MBA program.
 
Loans ...

marlon2006 said:
I would like to talk about some productive and proactive actions while we hear lipservice from media and congress.

Do you think you would wait until you get GC, then get employed by employer who can sponsor MBA in the US, or it is better off to take private loan or personal finances and pay for MBA from you own pockets right now ? Interest rates from private loans are a bit high though (~8.5%).

This is my thinking:
I started MBA in my region here. I am not eligible for in-state tuition without GC. You are eligible for US Financial Aid (Loan) once you get AP for one year.

Many employers in this area are paying for MBA.
The program I took cost me $40,000.

Since my PD is April 2002 and I am king of thinking about resuming studies.

Please let me know your experience and also tell me price you are paying for your MS/MBA program.

marlon,

Thanks for starting such a positive and constructive thread. Its the best way for us "retrogression affected" immigrants to make the most of our situation.

I personally have just started my MBA (evening) progam and my company is footing part of the bill. I was fortunate enough to get a decent scholarship from the college as well so its worked out alright. Even if my company would not have paid for this, I think I would have started the MBA anyway. Education is the best asset one can have. Even if things don't work out in the US right now I can always use my US education and experience to find something in another part of the world. If things improve back here in the US then I can always move back at another time and apply again. All is not lost. A lighter way of looking at it is that no one can "retrgrogress" our degrees or take them away from us so if at all possible we should all try to get it done.

Now I do understand that its not possible or desirable for everyone to get an MBA. I am sure there are enough people who are not sold on the idea of an MBA. There is nothing wrong with that either. An MBA or an MS cannot guarantee success. Its purely a personal choice. There are other ways of enhancing ones self such as career related certifications etc. People like us should also consider all the financial aspects of this situation. I think we should be relatively conservative in our expenditures and should save as much as possible. I don't think putting away to much in 401K and other accounts that cannot be liquidated is a good idea for us. If things don't work out here most of us will need liquid cash. I would rather invest in a house. Even if one has to leave it can be sold. These are just some of my thoughts. I am following all these ideas. More specific to 401K, I am putting in exactly as much as my company matches. There is not point in putting in extra at this point. I may need the money in a year if my GC is still not here ...

regards,

saras
 
saras76 said:
I don't think putting away to much in 401K and other accounts that cannot be liquidated is a good idea for us. If things don't work out here most of us will need liquid cash.

Let me provide some constructive criticism of that.

First of all, if you live in US, not putting money away in a retirement fund is a terrible idea. You can avoid it as late as the age of 35 years and still make up by slightly aggressive saving plan. If you wait till you're 40 to start saving, it's way too late and will adversely affect the quality of life in your golden years. Ideal time to start saving is the the age of 30. And No, house doesn't make a retirement fund.

The understanding of 401k among my friends is so abysmal that I shake my head in disbelief. Let's get some facts straight:

1. If you have some savings in your 401k, you can borrow from it. You pay it back with interest, the interest itself goes to your account. So you pay interest to yourself!

2. You may take out money before the age of 59.5, but then you pay 10% penalty and income tax. But let's put this in perspective in the next bullet point.

3. Most of the companies provide match. In my company the match the first 6% of my salary, dollar for dollar.

Let's use a hypothetical scenario of a person making $100,000 a year. This person saves 6% of gross which is $6,000 a years. Company matches it with another $6,000. This person saves for three years. After which the person had to return to India. To keep the math simple, we ignore salary raises and return on investments. Both of these will only positively affect the outcome.

This person has him/herself contributed $18,000. Due to company match, the sum stands at $36,000. The person withdraws it all and pays 10% fine, and still get 90% of it, i.e. $32,400. It's taxable, which can be avoided by withdrawing it a year after returning (when US salary income will be zero).

So, even if you've to withdraw it all and return, which is not very likely (unless you're very pessimistic), you still end up with an extra $14,400. Of course, if things go according to the plan, you've got extra $18,000, tax-free. You also don't pay taxes on the original $18,000 you contributed. How much is that at 30% tax bracket?

If your company provides any match, not saving in 401k is a very very costly financial mistake. Just do the math. You're leaving money on the table. Money is not a matter to be decided by the intuition of a layman, as shown in the above example. It's needs knowledge and analysis.

If the above example came as a shock to you, it's a sign that you know too little about money and need to read at least 3-6 books to be able to barely manage your finance.

Some disclaimers: you really need to save 20% of gross (including company match) for a retirement which matches your current life style. This is not complete primer on 401k, so read more if you wanna invest through a 401k plan.

My personal conviction is not to put your life on hold till GC clears. I'm currently enrolled in an evening MBA (company provides half of the total tution of 60,000). I've owned a 4-BR house for over two years now. Have been saving in 401k for three years with a nice little nest-egg to show for it and also have 529 for my son (just started so not much in it but contributing monthly).

GC will come when it'll come. Somethings you can't do till then. There's no need to have a mental block and not moving on with rest of your life.
 
Good points ... but

gravitation said:
Let me provide some constructive criticism of that.

First of all, if you live in US, not putting money away in a retirement fund is a terrible idea. You can avoid it as late as the age of 35 years and still make up by slightly aggressive saving plan. If you wait till you're 40 to start saving, it's way too late and will adversely affect the quality of life in your golden years. Ideal time to start saving is the the age of 30. And No, house doesn't make a retirement fund.

The understanding of 401k among my friends is so abysmal that I shake my head in disbelief. Let's get some facts straight:

1. If you have some savings in your 401k, you can borrow from it. You pay it back with interest, the interest itself goes to your account. So you pay interest to yourself!

2. You may take out money before the age of 59.5, but then you pay 10% penalty and income tax. But let's put this in perspective in the next bullet point.

3. Most of the companies provide match. In my company the match the first 6% of my salary, dollar for dollar.

Let's use a hypothetical scenario of a person making $100,000 a year. This person saves 6% of gross which is $6,000 a years. Company matches it with another $6,000. This person saves for three years. After which the person had to return to India. To keep the math simple, we ignore salary raises and return on investments. Both of these will only positively affect the outcome.

This person has him/herself contributed $18,000. Due to company match, the sum stands at $36,000. The person withdraws it all and pays 10% fine, and still get 90% of it, i.e. $32,400. It's taxable, which can be avoided by withdrawing it a year after returning (when US salary income will be zero).

So, even if you've to withdraw it all and return, which is not very likely (unless you're very pessimistic), you still end up with an extra $14,400. Of course, if things go according to the plan, you've got extra $18,000, tax-free. You also don't pay taxes on the original $18,000 you contributed. How much is that at 30% tax bracket?

If your company provides any match, not saving in 401k is a very very costly financial mistake. Just do the math. You're leaving money on the table. Money is not a matter to be decided by the intuition of a layman, as shown in the above example. It's needs knowledge and analysis.

If the above example came as a shock to you, it's a sign that you know too little about money and need to read at least 3-6 books to be able to barely manage your finance.

Some disclaimers: you really need to save 20% of gross (including company match) for a retirement which matches your current life style. This is not complete primer on 401k, so read more if you wanna invest through a 401k plan.

My personal conviction is not to put your life on hold till GC clears. I'm currently enrolled in an evening MBA (company provides half of the total tution of 60,000). I've owned a 4-BR house for over two years now. Have been saving in 401k for three years with a nice little nest-egg to show for it and also have 529 for my son (just started so not much in it but contributing monthly).

GC will come when it'll come. Somethings you can't do till then. There's no need to have a mental block and not moving on with rest of your life.

gravitation,

The whole point of this thread is to share ideas and correct misconceptions. I agree with your points on 401K. Please note that I am totally in favor of putting in as much money as the company matches. It is stupid to not do so. I think you forgot to read that part in your haste to criticize my posting. My point was that we should all think of all invesment and savings alternatives before maxing out our 401K. Even after reading your points, I am not convinced that its a good idea for us immigrants to be maxing out our 401Ks. Everyones needs and financial backgrounds are different so there is no general rule but on an average I don't think maxing out ones 401K with all this undcertainty is a good idea. Correct me if I am wrong here ...

Bottom line is that we need to invest atleast the % that our company matches. Why say no to free money. My issue is with the max point. I think it would be wiser for most of us to put this money in a more accessible place where there are no penalties on withdrawl.

Personally I have always put in a little more than the company match in 401k, have owned a house for over 3 years now and have a lot of liquid investments.

PS - Your comment "If the above example came as a shock to you, it's a sign that you know too little about money and need to read at least 3-6 books to be able to barely manage your finance." was a bit harsh. Constructive criticism should never have a condescending tone to it :). We are all sharing ideas and there is no need to jump down someones throat if you don't agree with a view point.

regards,

saras
 
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Saras,
My previous post is really targetted on general public, not on you. Your investment strategy sounds pretty solid. I only used your mail as a seed to move forward the discussion of 401k. Too many of my friends stay completely away from 401k (they even haven't bothered to find out what it is and forego company match).

I totally agree that everybody's investment requirements will be different. I still (by strictly personal opinion) believe in maxing out 401k. To me, tax savings etc. make it worth it.

Regarding uncertainity, I disagree with you, but there is nothing/nobody to be corrected. It's a matter of personal risk tolerance. I like to keep my retirement on track. What's the possibility of not getting a GC? I don't have the exact number, but it must be what... 1%, 2%? Even if it's -let's say- 10%, it's not gonna prevent me from optimizing my retirement planning and saving on taxes.

It's good that there are two differing PoV's here b/w you and me. That'll allow people to get two sides of stories and make up their own minds.

Regards,
Gravitation

saras76 said:
gravitation,

The whole point of this thread is to share ideas and correct misconceptions. I agree with your points on 401K. Please note that I am totally in favor of putting in as much money as the company matches. It is stupid to not do so. My point was that we should all think of all invesment and savings alternatives before maxing out our 401K. Even after reading your points, I am not convinced that its a good idea for us immigrants to be maxing out our 401Ks. Everyones needs and financial backgrounds are different so there is no general rule but on an average I don't think maxing out ones 401K with all this undcertainty is a good idea. Correct me if I am wrong here ...

Bottom line is that we need to invest atleast the % that our company matches. Why say no to free money. My issue is with the max point. I think it would be wiser for most of us to put this money in a more accessible place where there are no penalties on withdrawl.

Personally I have always put in a little more than the company match in 401k, have owned a house for over 3 years now and have a lot of liquid investments.

regards,

saras
 
Point noted Saras. Again, it wasn't really targetted towards any specific person and certainly not you. But I didn't make that explicit in my first post and that left a room for some misunderstanding, which is definitely regrettable.

Others, what do you think? Max out on 401k or not? Let it be a multilog!

saras76 said:
PS - Your comment "If the above example came as a shock to you, it's a sign that you know too little about money and need to read at least 3-6 books to be able to barely manage your finance." was a bit harsh. Constructive criticism should never have a condescending tone to it :). We are all sharing ideas and there is no need to jump down someones throat if you don't agree with a view point.
 
Are you guys there taking the MBA instead of MS in Information Management or Information Systems ?

This is very personal, but I strongly believe that the MBA can suit very well for people going to more executive careers in the future, what is not my case. After completing 50% of the program and meeting many classmates who are CIO's and directors, I learned that I will be happy doing senior engineering for many years to come. I also would like to teach at technical colleges, and since information securtiy is my field, I think the MS track would be a better fit to me. Upon completion of 18 credits, you are allowed to teach 300 level courses. I have done that, and I think teaching would be a good way to complement income - and a nice lighweight job to do after retirement as well if necessary.

MBA may look more diverse on your resume, showing that you are capable of mastering a study broader than IT. One of the cons is that in my personal experience and perception, if you plan to stick in a senior engineering position or technical architect role I think that many employers have a tendency to think that you are kind of overqualified, or sometimes even unsuccessful when you show the MBA credential, but work in something non-managerial. Please note that this is my own perception, I may be wrong. I have noticed that every time I listed "MBA..." in my resume, I attracted fewer interviews for technical positions. I believe that the MS credential would be a better fit for someone who is not planning a non-managerial role in the long term.
 
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I would. That helps me keep my taxable income lower. From my part-time work I put 10% into 401k. Otherwise I would take a big hit when paying taxes. 401k would server as a valid reserve when buying a house.

Since it is more likely than not that we would live in the US for a while, I would invest in 401k. If the GC fails and we go back we would need to pay penalty to withdraw the money.



gravitation said:
Point noted Saras. Again, it wasn't really targetted towards any specific person and certainly not you. But I didn't make that explicit in my first post and that left a room for some misunderstanding, which is definitely regrettable.

Others, what do you think? Max out on 401k or not? Let it be a multilog!
 
Retirement plan

Guys and Gals

I known of many "consulting" companies for whom the words 401(k) are not in their dictionary!!!

So, If you work for a company which provides 401(K) and on top of it, also a company match, not investing in a 401(k) is being financially stupid. Whether you stay here or not is irrelevant.

AND there are enough mutual funds to cater to various risk profiles.

And also beware of stupid financial consultants who say if you are 30, invest 70% in equity and if you are 35, invest 65% in equity. YOU DECIDE how to invest in what. You can have 100% treasury portfolio (0% risk but low returns) to 85% equity (with 25% in international equity) (very high risk and possibly very high returns) or you can do sector funds or ETFs or damn it, any portfolio suitable to your risk profile.

I repeat, If you work for a company which provides 401(K) and on top of it, also a company match, not investing in a 401(k) is being financially stupid

However, if work for companies that do not provide for 401(k) or equivalent (403(c) for non-profits, SEP plans for smaller companies), please invest in an IRA. Do not leave your retirement to chance.

===========================

I think it is always a GREAT idea to hone up on education. If MBA is not right for you, do post-graduate studies in the same area or get more CERTIFICATIONS in the area of your skills and expertise. Get into related areas, acquire more industry knowledge, and more importantly, have a flexible, positive attitude.

==========================

Regards
GCStrat :)
 
Immigration Voice is doing a Webfax and Phone Campaign to oppose Bingaman Amendments SA 4131 which is being discussed on the Senate floor at this time. This amendment will reduce the EB visa numbers.

For go the following links to oppose this amendment by sending webfaxes and participating in the phone campaign:

Web-fax
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=941

Phone campaign
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=942

Please help to oppose Bingaman Amendments SA 4131.

Thank You.
 
Please...

Mr. Aman Kapoor

Please start a new thread for calling senators instead of "crashing" into an unrelated thread.

While we all appreciate your efforts, this is just impolite.

Regards
GCStrat :)
 
No probs ..

gravitation said:
Point noted Saras. Again, it wasn't really targetted towards any specific person and certainly not you. But I didn't make that explicit in my first post and that left a room for some misunderstanding, which is definitely regrettable.

Others, what do you think? Max out on 401k or not? Let it be a multilog!

gravitation,

I understand. We are all here to help eachother. No offense taken :)

regards,

saras
 
Thanks GCstrat.
By the way, I thought that WaldenPond was the girl who appared at Washington Post recently...

gcstrat said:
Mr. Aman Kapoor

Please start a new thread for calling senators instead of "crashing" into an unrelated thread.

While we all appreciate your efforts, this is just impolite.

Regards
GCStrat :)
 
i totally agree with gravitation and gcstrat.....not investing in 401K just because you don't have a green card is wrong (note that i didn't say stupid because anyone could have a financial situation).....you need to atleast contribute an amount that will max. out your company's contribution.

also note that your contribution to 401K is before taxes ...

anyway...despite the fact that i dont have a gc...i invest in 401K, Roth IRA, stocks and also bought a house 2 years back. you just can't stop living your life just becoz you dont have a GC....(me thinks).

if any of you guys are active stock investors...i would love to have offline discussion with you'll.


gcstrat said:
Guys and Gals

I known of many "consulting" companies for whom the words 401(k) are not in their dictionary!!!

So, If you work for a company which provides 401(K) and on top of it, also a company match, not investing in a 401(k) is being financially stupid. Whether you stay here or not is irrelevant.

AND there are enough mutual funds to cater to various risk profiles.

And also beware of stupid financial consultants who say if you are 30, invest 70% in equity and if you are 35, invest 65% in equity. YOU DECIDE how to invest in what. You can have 100% treasury portfolio (0% risk but low returns) to 85% equity (with 25% in international equity) (very high risk and possibly very high returns) or you can do sector funds or ETFs or damn it, any portfolio suitable to your risk profile.

I repeat, If you work for a company which provides 401(K) and on top of it, also a company match, not investing in a 401(k) is being financially stupid

However, if work for companies that do not provide for 401(k) or equivalent (403(c) for non-profits, SEP plans for smaller companies), please invest in an IRA. Do not leave your retirement to chance.

===========================

I think it is always a GREAT idea to hone up on education. If MBA is not right for you, do post-graduate studies in the same area or get more CERTIFICATIONS in the area of your skills and expertise. Get into related areas, acquire more industry knowledge, and more importantly, have a flexible, positive attitude.

==========================

Regards
GCStrat :)
 
have you looked into schools that offer a dual degree program like an MS-MBA?


marlon2006 said:
Are you guys there taking the MBA instead of MS in Information Management or Information Systems ?

This is very personal, but I strongly believe that the MBA can suit very well for people going to more executive careers in the future, what is not my case. After completing 50% of the program and meeting many classmates who are CIO's and directors, I learned that I will be happy doing senior engineering for many years to come. I also would like to teach at technical colleges, and since information securtiy is my field, I think the MS track would be a better fit to me. Upon completion of 18 credits, you are allowed to teach 300 level courses. I have done that, and I think teaching would be a good way to complement income - and a nice lighweight job to do after retirement as well if necessary.

MBA may look more diverse on your resume, showing that you are capable of mastering a study broader than IT. One of the cons is that in my personal experience and perception, if you plan to stick in a senior engineering position or technical architect role I think that many employers have a tendency to think that you are kind of overqualified, or sometimes even unsuccessful when you show the MBA credential, but work in something non-managerial. Please note that this is my own perception, I may be wrong. I have noticed that every time I listed "MBA..." in my resume, I attracted fewer interviews for technical positions. I believe that the MS credential would be a better fit for someone who is not planning a non-managerial role in the long term.
 
Unfortunately there are no schools offering dual path degrees in my area. The one that I am taking let you pick one or the other. Too bad.

nishokie said:
have you looked into schools that offer a dual degree program like an MS-MBA?
 
my advise to folks who invest in 401K is that you should max out 401K only if you make good money and have a lot of disposable income(remember that maxing out 401k reduces your taxable income.

so you can max. out 401K if you're making enough to have a 3 month salary nest egg and also are investing in stocks and also in 529 college plans.

if you dont have leftover money for other investments after you max out 401K then i wouldn't recommend maxing out 401K. in that event contribute to 401K as much as you can..atleast put in enough amount so that your company maxes their contribution and with the remaining leftover income invest in roth ira or stocks/mutual funds/secondary real-estate/3 month salary savings account etc.

again this is the approach that i have taken for the last few years.....


gravitation said:
Others, what do you think? Max out on 401k or not? Let it be a multilog!
 
IDea is...

guys and gals

Idea is to ensure you do not "short-change" your retirement.

If your company matches upto say 4%, then it is "Stupid" not to put 4% of your income in 401(k). Whatever your income level, I think you can / should save 4%.

In the unlikely case of you working for a company which offers 10 or 12% match, I agree with NISHOKIE, find a percentage which suits your goals.

Personally, If I WERE (I am not, alas) in such a situation, I would still "max out". I can "modify" my lifestyle and I would rather build my "egg-nest".

Regards
GCStrat :)
 
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