Traffic tickets and naturalization (threads merged)

To sarrebal and pinnacle man, that's actually exactly what I did. I obtained whatever records I could and brought them to my interview, planning to give them to the IO only if asked. I was never asked for them, so I didn't show them. Simple as that.

Contrary to other statements on this thread, it is NOT POSSIBLE to obtain payment records or court dispositions for New York State traffic violations that are older than three years and are handled by the Traffic Violations Bureau. Prior to my interview, I did a lot of running around to track down traffic court dispositions, thanks to all the fear mongering on this forum. I even filed a FOIA request with the DMV, asking them for records of traffic violations older than 3 years. In return, I received an official letter from the DMV stating that records of minor traffic violations are purged every three years and cannot be obtained. If anyone doubts this, I still have the letter. I'll be more that happy to scan it and post it on the forum.

P.S. Oddly enough, I was able to get a computer printout of a payment record for a ten year old seatbelt violation in Nassau County. Then again, they seem to have their own way of handling traffic violations, as that particular ticket never made it onto my DMV record in the first place.
 
I am looking for evidence that non-reporting of a single ticket under USD 500 and no other underlying causes resulted in an N-400 denial.

If we can find it, I think the current ticket reporting practices will align with the law very quickly.

If we don't, this discussion will iterate over and over and over ...
 
pintoo12333 said:
Vorpal

You are WRONG that one cannot get tickets older than 3 years. DMV that handles tickets for New york city . you are correct . but for all other tickets you can get it from the county court where your got the ticket.
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I suggest you reread my post and pay close attention to what I wrote in it. I clearly stated that it is not possible to get records of tickets handled by the TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS BUREAU that are over three years old. As I've said, I'd be more than happy to post the response from the DMV that I received when trying to obtain copies of those tickets. Also, you'll only be able to get court records if you went to court for the ticket. If you pleaded guilty and paid the ticket, it will not appear in local court records. Common sense is key here.
 
pintoo12333 said:
http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=304134

Another example of questions on traffic tickets and asked to prove. :)
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Some IOs ask about traffic tickets, others don't. Some IOs even instruct applicants not to report traffic tickets. This has been posted all over this forum again and again. USCIS doesn't have a uniform practice when it comes to handling traffic tickets. Naturally, neither do the applicants. It's important to use discretion and common sense when approaching traffic tickets, that's all there is to it. You've provided a few examples where applicants with criminal traffic offenses have had their applications denied. If anyone has had their application denied for minor traffic tickets, they will get their approval on appeal. There have been many precedents where federal courts have decided that minor traffic violations do not constitute bad moral character. Also, since you suggest that not reporting traffc violations may result in denaturalization, would you mind posting a case where this has happened? Just one would be enough.
 
pintoo12333 said:
Vorpal

You are dead wrong about your assumption that if you plead guilty and pay a fine then it doesnt goto court. Traffic law is also governed by courts except for TVB . Even TVB has a administrative law judge FYI .Everytime you get a ticket , it falls under a jurisdiction. When you pay a fine by mail the judge formally convicts you in court pleading for the violation of a specific law. You dont pay a fine EVER to DMV bur rather courts for traffic convictions. TVB is just an exception for the NYC.This is entered in your records. I have lived in seven different states including NY and I can pull any traffic offense records except for TVB.
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So you're suggesting that everyone who has ever received a traffic ticket has a criminal record? Where, may I ask, did you get this information? Also, the parking violations bureau has administrative law judges as well. By your logic, all parking tickets should be disclosed as well?


pintoo12333 said:
I pray that you dont one of those folks who is very "analytical" and asks you get a copy of all dispositions including even if you dont disclose it ..


:)
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Take a look at my timeline. I've been a citizen for over a year already. At my interview, when the IO (a seasoned USCIS veteran, based on all the commendations he had hanging in his office) got to the question about having ever been cited, detained, or arrested, he asked "Have you ever been arrested?", mentioning nothing about having been cited or detained. At my oath, the IO in charge specifically instructed everyone not to disclose traffic tickets on the back of the oath letter. Draw your own conclusions.
 
pintoo12333 said:
For all of yiu nah sayers ... Please look at the page 12/13 and read this paragraph very carefully




http://www.abanet.org/intlaw/commit...als/immigration_naturalization/summer2005.pdf




"Based on this experience, it is the author’s
recommendation that applicants for U.S.
citizenship disclose civil infractions on Form
N-400 even if not required to do so. In a
separate page, an applicant should describe the
nature of the civil infraction(s), the disposition
of the matter, such as whether fines were
assessed and paid and, if probation was
imposed, whether the applicant complied with
the terms of his or her probation. Failure to
disclose civil infractions on a Naturalization
Application could result in a finding that the
applicant lied to obtain an immigration benefit.
The process to obtain a reversal on a decision
to deny U.S. citizenship can be very time
consuming and costly."
Click to expand...

Take a look at the last paragraph on page 11 (continued on page 12) of the same document.

Also, take a look at this thread: http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=2005419
 
pintoo12333 said:
I think you are missing the point . The question is not whether you are successful w/wo disclosing the tickets. You may or you may not be.The question is how to answer the question truthfully "Have you ever been arrested , cited or detained by any law enforcement " and the answer is very much clear . Traffic tickets need to be disclosed as per this stament. Until 2005/2006 there was a clear exception to this requirement on n-400 and they removed it.

I dont think anyone can dispute the language or question here. Re the fact that we all may or may not disclose it . it is folks comfort and personal choice. I m just expressing my opinions so that folks dont pay thru their noses for denial appeals and unecessary anxiety

:)
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Again, by using this logic, parking tickets must be disclosed as well, right? Also, if a person gave a witness statement to a police officer, that must be disclosed as well, correct?

As far as paying through the nose for denial appeals, look up the user nyc_newbie on this forum. His case was denied in NYC for exhibiting poor moral character by getting 2 speeding tickets in 4 years (he disclosed all his tickets and brought court dispositions). He is no longer active on this forum, but I still communicate with him through PMs about the progress of his appeal. Talk about paying through your nose...
 
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Vorpal said:
At my interview, when the IO (a seasoned USCIS veteran, based on all the commendations he had hanging in his office) got to the question about having ever been cited, detained, or arrested, he asked "Have you ever been arrested?", mentioning nothing about having been cited or detained. Draw your own conclusions.
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Ditto for me...

I am not sure what's so difficult about it. Keep the paperwork (proof of payment / disposition) ready. If asked by the officer during interview, you can not lie. You can ask whether it should be listed or not. The application is not final until the end of interview when you sign it. If the IO wants to list it, so be it.
 
Whoever suggested sending a blank form, in essence saying NO against drunk driving, prostitution, being an anarchist, not paying taxes, prior arrests, voting without being a citizen ... when the truth is otherwise?

What gave that impression? I am sure it must be something I said ... if I did, I take that back.
 
pintoo12333 said:
Your posts give that impression. Dont disclose on n-400 but carry the dispositions and paperwork and if asked then ack. What is that ?
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This is the reason people are s**t scared of USCIS. A simple statement can sometimes be misconstrued and demonized.

I will abstain from further discussion in response to current discussion, but not from this thread.
 
Quick traffic violations/N400 stats

Of all the responses to the unscientific traffic poll above:
(106 applicants as of 10/03/2009)

64% did not to mention minor traffic offenses in the application.

Among those who did not mention minor traffic offenses on N400:

23% mentioned them to IO during the interview and this resulted in a request for a
court disposition in one of every ten such cases.

19% Were specifically asked about violations by IO and a request for disposition was
made in one third of such cases.

57% neither mentioned violations during interview nor were asked by IO.

99.99% of all cases* (including those who mentioned violations on the form itself**)
resulted in approval.



*0.01% reserved for cases handled by overzealous or inexperienced IOs which resulted in denial
(i.e. nyc_newbie) . To date, all theses cases were appealed successfully.

** These cases might incur a slight delay while RFE letters are sent out.
 
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Just don't disclose it and you'll be fine.
It's annoying, inconvenient and not worth it. Plus most people don't have time to take a 5-hour drive to get some paperwork.
It's just my suggestion though.
 
sarrebal said:
Just don't disclose it and you'll be fine.
It's annoying, inconvenient and not worth it. Plus most people don't have time to take a 5-hour drive to get some paperwork.
It's just my suggestion though.
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as far as OP assumes the risk....as USCIS may get report on driving history which may list this offense. If asked, OP should be prepared to provide a proof of payment and info on the outcome of the case. I know we can debate about this...rules are rules...perhaps, the risk is low but it is still there...
 
From the details you described, you do not have to list this in your application. If you do, be prepared to provide documentation showing this has been taking care off.
 
Traffic violations under $500 that do not involve drugs, alcohol or bodily injury do not require documentation. OP should disclose the citation, but per USCIS instructions is not required to show documentation
 
I have two minor traffic tickets which I mentioned in N400. Even though instructions say no documentation is required for fines under $500, I got yellow letter stating that court despositions are needed at interview. So I got those documents.
 
If only consistency could be expected from CIS...

It is one thing when the cases are complex (and by definition not laid out exactly in CIS operations manual I guess). It is another thing when we disagree on whether we should disclose or not. However, when the instructions are clear that NO DOCS are required, why should they ask?
 
Thank You all for your responses.
I live in Virginia state. Do i need to go to the court in NY in person to get the "court despositions" or can i request them through phone/online ? Does anyone knows the process?
 
vatiger2009 said:
Thank You all for your responses.
I live in Virginia state. Do i need to go to the court in NY in person to get the "court despositions" or can i request them through phone/online ? Does anyone knows the process?
Click to expand...

You can get an abstract of your NYS driving record over the phone. It costs about $15 dollars. Call : (518)-473-5595.

Good Luck.
 
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