Traffic tickets and naturalization (threads merged)

pintoo12333 said:
Also Mr Vorpal

Just because the IO didnt ask you during interview doesnt mean that you dont have an obligation to disclose it .

filing n-400 is part of the interview what you have provided in n-400 an interview together form the basis of your approval/denial

:)
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Actually, I called the USCIS a few months before my interview and asked them if traffic tickets need to be disclosed. The customer service rep searched his computer and read to me that minor traffic tickets with fines under $500 do not need to be disclosed.
 
pintoo12333 said:
Here is link to appeal of an n-400 that was denied by the DAO for not disclosing the tickets and DWLS .

Read carefully what the judge says. The tickets per se are not an issue but not disclosing it amounts to lack of good moral character i.e. lying


http://www.mied.uscourts.gov/Opinions/lawsonpdf/07-13198 Keaik Opinion on Cross MSJs.pdf
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The petitioner was arrested and convicted of driving with a suspended license, which is a misdemeanor in most states. He didn't disclose those facts on his application or his interview. His arrest record obviously came up during FP check, so the USCIS was well aware of it. Had his application been denied solely for not disclosing traffic tickets, I firmly believe the judge's decision would have been quite different.
 
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pintoo12333 said:
A person can interpret it both ways. The issue is not a misdemenaor. Remember people with DUI /DWI /Sholifting get approved. Look carefully at the language the arrest itself was not the issue. The fact that he kept hiding his speeding tickets became an issue down the line . The judge clearly says that traffic issues didnt cause the issue even the DWLS or the arrest for DWLS didnt seem to bother the judge . It was his lack of candor for not disclosing the ticket that got him in trouble.

Not disclosing is not an option :) Can be used anytime to revoke or deny the citizenship. i.e. lets say someone after approval breaks some law then they can open our entire file (hypothecially) and look at other issues .

Again , look at the question in n-400

This is not a legal advise
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What don't you get?
The guy was ARRESTED.
Of course he had to disclose it.
The point is that if no ARREST is involved, then there's no need to disclose it.
But you can disclose it and possibly (but not necessarily) raise a red flag and delay your case.
Not to mention the pain in the @$$ to go and get court dispositions and proof of payments.
 
pintoo12333 said:
Vorpal

The folks on the Cust service at USCIS are not lawyers / attorneys/prosecutors/ investigators. They are just to provide info and not legal stuff.

If they are correct then why have people reported that they were questiobed about the tickets.

Again , the emphasis is on disclosure not convictions or arrests for traffic offenses.

This is not legal advice
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Dear Pintoo,

My vote goes to Vorpal on this. I have learned that common sense gets one farther in life than intellectual fluffiness.

Take care

FF1
 
Pintoo is trying to prove his case by citing an irrelevant court opinion. Like sarrebal already pointed out, the guy was arrested and then did not disclose his arrest on N-400. You bet he would be denied N-400 and could even be denaturalised later in life. However, there is still no agreement on the issue of traffic infractions not only between fellow forum members but between USCIS officers as well. People's experiences vary too greatly to try and see the USCIS pattern concerning minor traffic tickets.
 
The example provided in the last page stinks. If you wanted to recommend disclosing all tickets, you are actually harming your argument. Please do not accuse me of racism when you read the point#1 below ... the intent is not that. However, I started reading the PDF file with the intent of finding all issues with the case, and there were plenty. This is like Al Capone being charged with tax fraud ... you make do with whatever charge sticks.

#1. My first sign of trouble was a Muslim name - in a post 9/11 world, less than 4 years after 9/11. This is not a disqualifier, but could be a trigger for additional scrutiny in today's age.

#2. Stayed in US after his tourist visa expired, did not even ask for extension.

#3. Divorced 7 months after getting his GC from marriage.

#4. N-400 did not talk about tickets, suspended license or arrest (for traffic violation).

#5. As per police report, he was "transported to the station and processed per procedure". I guess he was FPed also.

#6. Trying to justify the traffic tickets ... saying this is typical American. I am sure there was an argument.

#7. The judge's summary confirms the # citations to be 18 (EIGHTEEN). The applicant acknowledged only 5 (that also in the 2nd go).

#8. For one of his sentences, he was on probation for 2 years and 3 days work. This is big.

I am sure I might have exaggerated some of this by repeating, but still there are lot of warning flags here.

I suspect the denial started when during the interview he was asked about these, and he initially did not acknowledge, and then backtracked...

I do not know if it is alright to not list minor traffic tickets. However, if omitted, and asked during the interview, one must honestly tell the omission and explain the omission. Trying to lie at that point is inviting trouble. Again, this is if the tickets are minor (< 500) and if there is only 1-2 of them.

You can't paper your file with red flags all over and then expect not to be scrutinzed.
 
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I would not comment, but some of these examples do not pass the smell test. The discussion is whether not disclosing minor traffic tickets is an issue. The examples being provided are of serial traffic violators with suspended licenses and having other serious issues with the way the tickets were resolved. The other example is of a lawyer's advice. What do expect a lawyer to say in writing ... his/her suggestion in a personal meeting might be different.

To win this argument (based on current general practices), we need an example where a naturalization was denied for failure to disclose a single speeding ticket less than USD 500.
 
Does the number of speeding tickets effect the outcome of the N-400 interview? I had simple speeding tickets, one in 2001, another one in 2003 & one more a month back (the same day I gave the FP 08/25/2009) in a different state. The first two were paid, took the trafiic school (offered by the judge) and charges dismissed. My DMV of IL shows clean now. I also took court dispositions. I notified the 2001 & 2003 tickets in the application but I am worried about the last month ticket. To make sure I am not getting into any more trouble, I send the fine by money order and requested the court in the state of KY to give a computer printout saying that I paid the fine even though my ticket doesn't show in their system yet, because the court date was end of the Oct. BTW court appearance is not a must if I am not contesting it and paying the fine. So, can someone advice how this would effect my interview process. I kept a copy of the ticket and the money order as proof of payment. It was a simple speeding with a fine of $110/-.
 
spiderman03 said:
Does the number of speeding tickets effect the outcome of the N-400 interview? I had simple speeding tickets, one in 2001, another one in 2003 & one more a month back (the same day I gave the FP 08/25/2009) in a different state. The first two were paid, took the trafiic school (offered by the judge) and charges dismissed. My DMV of IL shows clean now. I also took court dispositions. I notified the 2001 & 2003 tickets in the application but I am worried about the last month ticket. To make sure I am not getting into any more trouble, I send the fine by money order and requested the court in the state of KY to give a computer printout saying that I paid the fine even though my ticket doesn't show in their system yet, because the court date was end of the Oct. BTW court appearance is not a must if I am not contesting it and paying the fine. So, can someone advice how this would effect my interview process. I kept a copy of the ticket and the money order as proof of payment. It was a simple speeding with a fine of $110/-.
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The number of speeding tickets normally doesn't doesn't affect the outcome of N400. Tickets* are irrelevant when considering good moral character.

*under $500 and non DUI/DWI related.
 
Hey Guys,

Getting interested as like old days of GC. Now I applied N400. as most of them did not read carefully the cited word and I did not mentioned any traffic tickets as not taught so

1) I got One speeding (5miles above limit in 2000 or 2001) in different state (dont remember the state as I was driving from NY to texas) paid $125 that ticket and forgot about it.
2) Maybe one or two headlight or taillight not working (bulb blown) ticket
3) ONE BAD ONE: I was new in 2000 and was drinking beer with another new guy while walking 100yards to my apt from deli store and we both were drinking beer in brown back (single can) and seriously not aware that cannot do it. Suddenly a unmarked car who was watching that store approached us and gave ticket to visit court. I pleaded guilty and paid $25 fine.
4) few alternate side parking tickets etc which is almost common in NYC


Now what you guys got for me??
 
To: indianexpert

Bad Issues: #1 - New York (they seem to be more strict), #2 - number of tickets
Good Issues: #1 - Tickets very old (from the info available), #2 - No arrests, #3 - drinking not related to driving, #4 - all tickets less than USD 200

You should
a) dig through your records / go to DMV and pull up all records to show disposition.
b) check how your record is in the last 5 years (since filing date)
c) ... acknowledge if asked by IO and sound repentant, you can say that you yourself were not sure because people told you less than 500 does not need to be declared. I think you do not need to volunteer but be open and direct as soon as asked. Do not give a hint you are trying to hide.

Why sound repentant --- the verbiage above such as "not aware" and "almost common" may sound right to the IO.
 
dmv driving record request clarrification

I recently got my NY state license, and I am currently a n400 applicant in NYC DO. Until recently, I had a California driving license. Sometime in 2005, I got a speeding ticket (the only ticket) when I was driving between PA and NY. I paid the ticket promptly, but I don't remember whether I got the ticket in NY state or PA.

If I request my driving record from NY (my current license), will I be able to obtain the information related to the ticket. I want to find the county and get my proof of payment. Do I also need to get the driving for the California issued license separately.

Please help.
 
pintoo12333 said:
I'd suggest if you can get a cooy of the tickets and dispositions if you can New york does maintain all the tickets and their dispositions in the system even if it doesn't show up on your DMV record. (i went thru this) . tell them your DOB and the NAME they will dig up all their tickets and dates and location and then contact individual courts for the dispositions.

Re PA they maintain history for more than 10 years

Make a list of all the tickets that you have received and give it to the interview before the IV begins. This will cool him off (my view) rather than wait for the good moral character questions. You will sound more repentant and real if you hand it beorfe the process begins. Again that is how I did it
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Many thanks. So if I understand correct, even if the report from DMV doesn't have it, I can call both NY and PA DMV office to obtain ticket information? Or should I could NY or PA courthouse system? Please let me know.

Thank you,
 
pinnacle_man said:
Many thanks. So if I understand correct, even if the report from DMV doesn't have it, I can call both NY and PA DMV office to obtain ticket information? Or should I could NY or PA courthouse system? Please let me know.

Thank you,
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Did you disclose those tickets?
If not, then do NOT volunteer this information and answer yes only if specifically asked about traffic tickets.
Also, a DMV report shows the status of your license.
If your license is valid, it's a given that all tickets have been paid.
In NYS your license gets suspended if you don't pay traffic tickets.
 
Thank you all for the recommendations and comments. I didn't disclose it, for the same reason that formerf1 mentioned. I was only planning to keep the documentation ready, if they ask for it.

Again Thank you for the recommendations to all of you.

Best regards,
 
pinnacle_man said:
Thank you all for the recommendations and comments. I didn't disclose it, for the same reason that formerf1 mentioned. I was only planning to keep the documentation ready, if they ask for it.

Again Thank you for the recommendations to all of you.

Best regards,
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That's the way I'm going, too.
Also, I believe your interview should be around mid-November.
We have similar timelines and mine is scheduled for Nov 10.
 
pinnacle_man said:
Thank you all for the recommendations and comments. I didn't disclose it, for the same reason that formerf1 mentioned. I was only planning to keep the documentation ready, if they ask for it.

Again Thank you for the recommendations to all of you.

Best regards,
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Congrats in advance!

FF1
 
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