Social security taxes

B

babumoshai

Registered Users (C)
Hello everyone:
Nowadays a lot of people are wondering about returning back to their home country after working here for duration of H1 visa, which is 6 years. Some people because they fail to get green card, others because of other personal reasons. I wanted to start a thread for people who want to go back and want to get their social security taxes money back which they paid for the last x years they were here. What are peoples thoughts? What can we do to get that money back. Please post your thoughts on this matter here. The deductions are about 6.5% of salary, so its a substantial amount of money if you have worked for even a year on H1. If you have worked for six or more years on H1, then its surely a lot of money, specially if you convert it to rupees. I had called the IRS to ask about this and they said that they cannot do anything in this. Specially India doesnt have a treaty where they can put all the money in the provident fund in India. Some European countries do have a treaty. I strongly think that people who care about this should do something about this.
If there is lot of interest all of us could do something about this.
Please support this cause and write back.
Thanks
 
yes i agree

we shud do something. specially now that in eb3 category there is retrogression. so people who have gotten labor approved now but applied say in 2004 jan will have to wait god knows untill when to have opportunity to file for 485 and get EAD for me and spouse (which is what i care about). i.e. wait till eb3 becomes current. so people who have applied for labor recently, shud seriously consider this. becoz you will have to wait a long time before eb3 becomes current and specially if you have already been here for the last 4-5 years on h1, then you will run out of h1 before it becomes current.
also people will be applying for PERM soon and will get their labor approved within 4 weeks (thats what they say) and all that crowd will join the waiting list of concurrently applying I140-485, furthur straining and prolonging the wait. getting our social security money back is just an option for added financial benefit, if we have to return back to india (which in my opinion is more likely now for people in above mentioned category).
 
Social Security is your money, and you get it back as per the rules of Social Security.

Any person earning in the US, gets the social security payments back if they have earned 40 credits. No matter how much you make every year, you can only earn 4 credits max every year. So it will take anyone atleast 10 years of working in the US to earn SS benefits at retirement.

I have a reason to believe that a lot of H1b holders who chose to go back now will get another opportunity in their lives to come back and work for a few more years in the US. Once you have earned enough, I believe you can earn back your retirement even when being in India (and without any citizenship or permenant residency rights in the US).

I know I am not answering your question on how to get it back. I am merely making a point that there could be other options. Infact, I would not mind a few hundred dollar check every month when I retire (after my rest of career in my home country) :p
 
Social security is NOT your money. It is a tax, and is used to pay SS benefits to those who are retiring/retired now. When the time comes for you to retire, your SS payments will come from SS tax payments from those who are still working at that time. And you don't get back what you pay.
 
thats true but...

10 years is a long time and H1 is only valid for 6 or 7 years. There are many people right now who are hitting that 7 year limit and still no signs of getting permanent residency. (which is only reasonable way of working 10 and getting 40 credits. the other way you mentioned is unlikely and chances are slim, of people coming back on H1 again and working for 3 more years.)
Also all this is assuming that the social security money doesnt run out. The most like scenario is that this fund will run out of money by the time I retire.
We could contact newly-formed Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs and see what options we have. I know there was talk of some treaty between india and US, but never heard anything.
 
reading material for nkm

nkm23--please take a moment to update your knowledge. its *NOT* your money is totally wrong.
here are some websites you may find useful to improve your knowledge:
www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ssa-hbk.htm
http://www.aarp.org/socialsecurity/
Hope That Helps!!!

nkm-oct23 said:
Social security is NOT your money. It is a tax, and is used to pay SS benefits to those who are retiring/retired now. When the time comes for you to retire, your SS payments will come from SS tax payments from those who are still working at that time. And you don't get back what you pay.
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Social security is certainly NOT your money, your benefits DO NOT come from your contributions. And there is no account created in your name where your contributions go. On the other hand your 401k contributions are YOUR money.

If you die today your spouse will receive a monthly benefit from SSA which will total to an amount much greater than what you put in. In that respect it is like an insurance. It is called a Social Security tax for a reason (and not social security savings account), your taxes are used to pay current retirees. When you retire, other workers taxes will pay you.

President Bush has proposed that a part of the SS tax be directed to a savings account, much like a 401k account where it is truly YOUR money and you will have full control over it.
 
As a temp worker in US on H1-b visa you dont have to pay SST. Because you are not eligible for SS benefits.

When I started I paid it for 8-9 months and then I found out that I am not eligible for the benefits so I asked my employer not to deduct it. And not only that, my employer actually paid me my 8-9 months SST withheld tax back to me.

So it is our money which we pay over the period of time for our retirement. It does not matter what you annual income is you only pay max of 8500-8700 ( i dont remember the exact number ) in SST.
 
are you sure...? what did you tell your company? i will tell the same thing...man.... i have been getting ripped off for the last 5 years :( :mad: :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

IN_LC said:
As a temp worker in US on H1-b visa you dont have to pay SST. Because you are not eligible for SS benefits.

When I started I paid it for 8-9 months and then I found out that I am not eligible for the benefits so I asked my employer not to deduct it. And not only that, my employer actually paid me my 8-9 months SST withheld tax back to me.

So it is our money which we pay over the period of time for our retirement. It does not matter what you annual income is you only pay max of 8500-8700 ( i dont remember the exact number ) in SST.
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Is there some way we can get it confirmed? I had called up SSA office and they said that irrespective of current status here in US you must pay SS taxes (except if you are on your OPT). Its a standard deduction. Since our GC is still in process, I don't think its worth taking that risk, unless ofcourse we get it confirmed. INS will ask our past W-2 forms. My employer too did not deduct SS taxes in the beginning, but then as per my lawyer, I had asked him to start deducting. Any opinions / suggestions?




IN_LC said:
As a temp worker in US on H1-b visa you dont have to pay SST. Because you are not eligible for SS benefits.

When I started I paid it for 8-9 months and then I found out that I am not eligible for the benefits so I asked my employer not to deduct it. And not only that, my employer actually paid me my 8-9 months SST withheld tax back to me.

So it is our money which we pay over the period of time for our retirement. It does not matter what you annual income is you only pay max of 8500-8700 ( i dont remember the exact number ) in SST.
Click to expand...
 
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I believe the idea is wrong, that we must withdraw SS since we may not be eligible for it. If that is the case, than a lot of people who stop working before finishing 10th year, would ask for SS back (including once who are eligible to work in the US without sponsorships). As someone said it, SS and Medicare are taxes, and not a voluntary deduction.

And, conceptually it is your money, since you get the benefits only if you put in the system as SST.

Now, having said that, I tend to think we need to represent ourselves to senators and law makers, since SSA has other benefits than just retirement. For example, if one works for 11 years, is still on H1b, loses his job, he can not stay in the country to take the unemployment benefits. Add that to the 6 year H1b limit, and we can get a stronger argument.
 
Yes and there is a movement in that direction going on, but sadly its not that active. We need to be more proactive since its WE who will benefit in the long run.
These articles show there is some activity going on in this regard:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/810151.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/911304.cms
(You might have to try a couple of times to load up these articles, sometimes it doesnt show up in first attempt)

Along with senators and congressmen we should also involve the newly formed Office of indians overseas which is part of Indian government and also NASCOMM and such organizations. this will give us more strength.
good luck to us

Ooz said:
I believe the idea is wrong, that we must withdraw SS since we may not be eligible for it. If that is the case, than a lot of people who stop working before finishing 10th year, would ask for SS back (including once who are eligible to work in the US without sponsorships). As someone said it, SS and Medicare are taxes, and not a voluntary deduction.

And, conceptually it is your money, since you get the benefits only if you put in the system as SST.

Now, having said that, I tend to think we need to represent ourselves to senators and law makers, since SSA has other benefits than just retirement. For example, if one works for 11 years, is still on H1b, loses his job, he can not stay in the country to take the unemployment benefits. Add that to the 6 year H1b limit, and we can get a stronger argument.
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That's all very true. But this treaty / movement will be successfull when it has to be. So what should we do as of NOW - should we ask our employers to return the SS taxes to us OR should we let them deduct the way they are deducting right now?

please reply. thanks.
 
With all due respect, you are wasting your time if you think (a) there is a way for H1's to escape Social Security taxes (b) there will be any Social Security left for anyone currently under 40 and (c) the US is going to sign a social security totalization agreement with India.

Claiming H1's don't have to pay SS or Medicare taxes is a common tactic of anti-immigrants, but it's just plain wrong. The IRS will come after your for tax evasion. Anyone who claims otherwise is kidding themselves.

The US Social Security system is in crisis, and they need all the revenue they can get to pay pension obligations right now. Regardless of perceived fairness, it's not in the US national interest to reduce the SS income by allowing people to opt out or reclaim their money. It's also unlikely the US will sign a social security agreement with India. According to every article I have read, there is no social security system in India hence there would be no advantage to the US in signing such an agreement.
 
If 40 is the number 4 per year. They need to increase the maximum H1B to 10 yrs. Instead they increased the fee to 2500$. US Companies when hiring, give PR's and Citizens preference over to H1B. What can't their be laws to prevent that?

I see no system in this country for immigrants. All the "system" does is rip the immigrants naked and kick them out

morpheus12 said:
With all due respect, you are wasting your time if you think (a) there is a way for H1's to escape Social Security taxes (b) there will be any Social Security left for anyone currently under 40 and (c) the US is going to sign a social security totalization agreement with India.

Claiming H1's don't have to pay SS or Medicare taxes is a common tactic of anti-immigrants, but it's just plain wrong. The IRS will come after your for tax evasion. Anyone who claims otherwise is kidding themselves.

The US Social Security system is in crisis, and they need all the revenue they can get to pay pension obligations right now. Regardless of perceived fairness, it's not in the US national interest to reduce the SS income by allowing people to opt out or reclaim their money. It's also unlikely the US will sign a social security agreement with India. According to every article I have read, there is no social security system in India hence there would be no advantage to the US in signing such an agreement.
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ok morpheus, i understand your opinion, but do you think contributing Social security for the last 6 years and side by side waiting for approval of labor for the last 3 and then getting the information that EB3 retrogressed and EB2 will follow suit, so even if my labor gets approved i cannot apply for 485 hence EAD, is in my best interest. but wait theres more my H1 will expire next year and i wont even be able to renew it ( counting the extention). thats realy great now i paid SST for 7 years, cannot hit 40 credits and the 7 years i paid SST is a waste, becoz i wont get any benefits. i am pretty sure thats not in my best interest.

morpheus12 said:
With all due respect, you are wasting your time if you think (a) there is a way for H1's to escape Social Security taxes (b) there will be any Social Security left for anyone currently under 40 and (c) the US is going to sign a social security totalization agreement with India.

Claiming H1's don't have to pay SS or Medicare taxes is a common tactic of anti-immigrants, but it's just plain wrong. The IRS will come after your for tax evasion. Anyone who claims otherwise is kidding themselves.

The US Social Security system is in crisis, and they need all the revenue they can get to pay pension obligations right now. Regardless of perceived fairness, it's not in the US national interest to reduce the SS income by allowing people to opt out or reclaim their money. It's also unlikely the US will sign a social security agreement with India. According to every article I have read, there is no social security system in India hence there would be no advantage to the US in signing such an agreement.
Click to expand...
 
Ooz said:
I believe the idea is wrong, that we must withdraw SS since we may not be eligible for it. If that is the case, than a lot of people who stop working before finishing 10th year, would ask for SS back (including once who are eligible to work in the US without sponsorships). As someone said it, SS and Medicare are taxes, and not a voluntary deduction.

And, conceptually it is your money, since you get the benefits only if you put in the system as SST.

Now, having said that, I tend to think we need to represent ourselves to senators and law makers, since SSA has other benefits than just retirement. For example, if one works for 11 years, is still on H1b, loses his job, he can not stay in the country to take the unemployment benefits. Add that to the 6 year H1b limit, and we can get a stronger argument.
Click to expand...


Ooz,

If one is not a permanent residence or citizen, he/she is not eligible for SS benifits. If you are not eligible for benifits you don't have to pay. Payroll Deduction and withholding are standard. Thats taxes are withheld from every one.

As a citizen / permanen residence you can not ask for SS back if you stop working before 10 year because you are eligible for SS benifits. On the other hand I , H1-B, can because I am not eligible for these benefits.


I will try to get some reference in this regard.
 
Hi All,
I have been doing lot of research on this, as I am almost finishing 8th yr of H1 and planning to apply for 9th yr extension.
Here is what I understood.
* You need to get 40 credits to get SS benefit when u retire. At most u get 4 credits per yr, so has to work for 10 yrs since birth till ur retirement age.
* You get one credit per 900 $ income, so if you make > 4000$ per year, you get 4 credits.
* If you leave US, but go to countries like canada, UK, you can transfer the credits and finish 10 yrs quota.
* If you leave US, but goto India and already has 40 credits...you can claim SS benefits when you retire, even though you are not PR holder or US citizen. They will send you check in India also.
* There is no way you can get SS tax (which you paid on H1-B) back. This was reported as a big issue in SiliconIndia, when bubble burst and lots of H1 holders went back.
* As other user mentioned, you don't need to pay SS and Medicare, if you are working on practical training.

If you goto ssa.gov, they have retirement calculator which tells you, how much you need to make in which year to qualify for retirement benefits.
 
I support this issue specially when you are coming from a country who does not have a treaty with US. Just curious to know following (sorry to ask offline question here):
Typically how much monthy amount a person gets as a part of SS benefit, provided s/he finished 40 credits?
Is the amount depends on how much SS tax you contribute?
 
exactly...
It depends on how much you contributed during your working period. If you worked more than 10 yrs...that also increase SS payment. I heard there is upper limit..which is <2K.. If you worked only 10 yrs...that amount is quite low..around 700 per month, but still high if converted to Rupees.

MAXIMUM MONTHLY SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFIT (when retiring at Full Retirement Age) for 2004, worker retiring at age 65+4mos $1,825
 
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