Secondary Screening at Toronto Airport by CBP

M

muji786

New Member
Hello,

Recently, I was coming back from Toronto to NY after 4 day trip with my wife and 2 daughters. We were "randomly' selected for "secondary screening". They took me to one room and my wife to another and basically asked us all sort of questions of our current trip / who we met / accommodations / places we visited / previous trips / business / jobs etc etc. They even took all our papers / credit cards etc from my wallet and my wife's purse and counted each cent we had with us. (I am guessing they copied all that information) Needless to say they went through each and every nook and cranny of our luggage.

The officer was polite and courteous, but I just was very uncomfortable, since this is the first time this has happened to us. We missed that night's flight. The officer got us on the first flight next day and even offered to call anyone on our behalf.

Is this legal? I can understand searching luggage but Why would they need to copy all of our papers? We run a virtual learning center for women online (Arabic + Quran study program) so I had bunch of notes etc in arabic and urdu. Could this be it?

PS We are not even remotely associated with any violent groups / parties etc.

Comments from any lawyers would be appreciated...

Sincerely,

Concerned traveller.
 
First of all, I am not a lawyer.
You do not know what triggers such scrutiny, but I think everything until copying the documents is part of life. It could be random, it could be profile based, it could be bad "fly lists" or just because the CBP officer was nasty.
Copying documents ... not sure if it is legal, but if they had a tip of some kind, I can understand them trying to capture all information ... even if they did not find anything on you.
Yes, it is a bit extreme than normal secondaries...
 
Hi,

I was contemplating making a FOIA and find out what is going on... ?? I am not at all nervous since I am sure there is nothing there... but i am curious to find out "WHY?"... however if one makes such a request, is it an indication for them that the person is worried ?

How can you "understand" copying documents as capturing all information? Would you still understand if you had to answer your 4 and 6 year olds about why a "policeman" is interrogating mommy and daddy in separate rooms for hours and going through all their personal stuff? "Darling he is trying to make us safer??? " We should not "understand" at all... there is due process for everything.

This seems excessive and dont they need a warrant of some sort to do that in the first place ??? I mean come on this is US for crying out loud... Personally i think such measures are counterproductive because a) instead of making a person feel safer, they feel very invasive and intrusive. b) I am sure people feel more alienated and are pushed over the edge since they feel there is racial profiling.

Again, my question... is this all legal???

More concerned traveller.
 
Here's my theory on why you were "randomly" selected. In light of recent events that took place in NYC (Faisal Shahzad), the fearmongering here is at an all-time high. In the past couple of weeks, we've had multiple bomb scares. One turned out to be a picnic cooler full of water bottles, another was an empty paper bag left on top of a phone booth, and the most recent one involved a white landscaper who parked his car near a concert venue and left 2 empty gasoline cans inside. The windows in his car were blown out and a bomb squad was brought in. To top it all off, when the poor guy came back to find the police surrounding his car, he was taken to a police station for extensive questioning.

As such, the CBP is paying special attention to anyone associated with Islam. Since you and your wife run a religious study center, your were profiled and pulled into secondary inspection. There was absolutely nothing random about. Unfortunately, under the Patriot Act, just about anything is legal. The government can proclaim anyone a terror suspect and violate their civil rights.

I'm sure that your family is not associated with terrorism and I'm sorry that your kids had to go through this. However, these are the times we live in. I'm afraid there isn't much recourse available to you.
 
muji786 said:
How can you "understand" copying documents as capturing all information? Would you still understand if you had to answer your 4 and 6 year olds about why a "policeman" is interrogating mommy and daddy in separate rooms for hours and going through all their personal stuff? "Darling he is trying to make us safer??? " We should not "understand" at all... there is due process for everything.
Click to expand...

Sorry maybe I was too direct. I do not know about "for hours", but my wife has gone through secondary more than once (she supposedly has a twin, same name, same birthday and once same date of entry into US ... which showed up in some flight data I guess). This is what screwed up our green card, and it still continues to happen. What do you do? It takes an hour of waiting, another half an hour for the questioning. Even I have kids, and I am sure thousands of others who get pulled out at secondary.

Due process is once you are inside the US. At the airport, they have a responsibility to not let anything "bad" get in. Under that umbrella, unfortunately they can do anything. It is draconian, but I am not surprised given how laws were bent during the Bush years, and they still continue to be bent. These are signs of the times...
 
muji786 said:
Hi,

I was contemplating making a FOIA and find out what is going on... ?? I am not at all nervous since I am sure there is nothing there... but i am curious to find out "WHY?"... however if one makes such a request, is it an indication for them that the person is worried ?

How can you "understand" copying documents as capturing all information? Would you still understand if you had to answer your 4 and 6 year olds about why a "policeman" is interrogating mommy and daddy in separate rooms for hours and going through all their personal stuff? "Darling he is trying to make us safer??? " We should not "understand" at all... there is due process for everything.

This seems excessive and dont they need a warrant of some sort to do that in the first place ??? I mean come on this is US for crying out loud... Personally i think such measures are counterproductive because a) instead of making a person feel safer, they feel very invasive and intrusive. b) I am sure people feel more alienated and are pushed over the edge since they feel there is racial profiling.

Again, my question... is this all legal???

More concerned traveller.
Click to expand...

Have you considered giving the ACLU a call? They should be able to give you a better idea of the recourse you may have available and may even be able to help you further.
 
Triple Citizen said:
Did you know that you could have refused this secondary screening since this was a pre-clearance facility on Canadian soil?
Click to expand...

What do you mean refuse? Please explain... It appeared as if we had no choice... "Please step this way and wait for an officer" doesn't seem like much of a choice. Oh another thing... my wife... the officer interrogating her was always putting words in her mouth... I dont even know what they jotted down on those yellow notebooks..
 
muji786, you could refuse the secondary screening and withdraw your application to enter the USA because the pre-screening facility was located on Canadian soil. Of course, you would have to miss the flight and they could flag you for the future interrogations... The CBP agents at the pre-screening facility operate by Canadian law on pre-screening procedures. At pre-screening facility, any traveller can refuse to cooperate with the CBP agents at any time and withdraw their application to enter the USA. The worst CBP agents can do is to detain you and call the RCMP.
 
They cannot even detain. Unless and until the person seeking entry into the US is wanted by a Canadian law enforcement agency, CBP cannot even detain. The applicant can simply walk away.

König said:
The worst CBP agents can do is to detain you and call the RCMP.
Click to expand...
 
If you refuse the questioning, and they note it in the computer, how will you enter USA? The purpose of the question is defeated.
 
I don't think the US law applies in its entirety until you pass the US customs. They can do whatever they wish and be as rude as they wish without repercussions.
 
AlexMN said:
I don't think the US law applies in its entirety until you pass the US customs. They can do whatever they wish and be as rude as they wish without repercussions.
Click to expand...
They can be as rude as they wish only on the US soil. Pre-clearance is not the US soil, so even after passing the immigration control they cannot do anything except to expel this individual from the pre-cleared area.
 
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