PERM and RIR in parallel?

S

sgdude

New Member
I have applied for my LC in Nov 2004 under EB3/RIR category. I also qualify for EB2 category as I have 4 years degree and 7 years of experience, without accounting my current employer's experience. So, I was wondering can I apply for a fresh LC according to PERM regulations under EB2 without withdrawing my earlier application.

Can one process PERM and RIR application in parallel??

Thanks!
 
Just because you have qual & experience for EB2 category doesnt mean you can apply for EB2. Your job requirements should require EB2 category..

sgdude said:
I have applied for my LC in Nov 2004 under EB3/RIR category. I also qualify for EB2 category as I have 4 years degree and 7 years of experience, without accounting my current employer's experience. So, I was wondering can I apply for a fresh LC according to PERM regulations under EB2 without withdrawing my earlier application.

Can one process PERM and RIR application in parallel??

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
sgdude said:
I have applied for my LC in Nov 2004 under EB3/RIR category. I also qualify for EB2 category as I have 4 years degree and 7 years of experience, without accounting my current employer's experience. So, I was wondering can I apply for a fresh LC according to PERM regulations under EB2 without withdrawing my earlier application.

Can one process PERM and RIR application in parallel??

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Yes. That is possible. When you file a new LC in PERM, the new job requirement must meet EB2 req. Also your duties, job title & description should meet the requirements for higher position. The most important factor is your employer willingness to pay the very high salary for the Eb2 position.
 
Thanks for clarification!.

I understand that my duties, title, skills, exp, salary should match the requirements posted for EB2 position.
 
As I understand you must withdraw your RIR before filing under PERM. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
If you want to retain your RIR PD, then you have to withdraw from RIR and re-apply under PERM. But for fresh LC under PERM with new PD, I am not sure and this is my question also.
 
sgdude said:
If you want to retain your RIR PD, then you have to withdraw from RIR and re-apply under PERM. But for fresh LC under PERM with new PD, I am not sure and this is my question also.
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IT IS A VALID QUESTION BUT I DOUBT whether u can apply both at the same time. Because th 45 ldays letter which i got mentions the option to continue or withdraw .May be good immigrant lawyer can justify and find some regulations because PERM is new and nobody is very clear.
 
If they find out 2 LC are pending at the same time from the same employer, they might ask you to withdraw one. Since PERM is the new system, I am not sure they have the resources or capability to find out.
 
sgdude said:
If you want to retain your RIR PD, then you have to withdraw from RIR and re-apply under PERM. But for fresh LC under PERM with new PD, I am not sure and this is my question also.
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Even if you withdraw the pending RIR LC, and file in PERM you CANNOT retain the old PD. It will be considered as a new application and you will be given the new PD. The retaining PD is allowed for regular LCs only, provided the recuritment of US worker is not started. In RIR case, employer has already tested the labor market with exisiting elimination criteria to reject US workers.

Thanks to Source:

http://www.ilw.com/lawyers/articles/2004,1230-siskind.shtm
 
mncbabu said:
Even if you withdraw the pending RIR LC, and file in PERM you CANNOT retain the old PD. It will be considered as a new application and you will be given the new PD. The retaining PD is allowed for regular LCs only, provided the recuritment of US worker is not started. In RIR case, employer has already tested the labor market with exisiting elimination criteria to reject US workers.

Thanks to Source:

http://www.ilw.com/lawyers/articles/2004,1230-siskind.shtm
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Who-ever wrote this article did not read the PERM regulations carefully. He is totally wrong. RIR cases can be converted to PERM while retaining the priority date if both applications are identical.

Read the PERM regulations yourself on page:77341 of the final regulation:
source: http://www.shusterman.com/pdf/permregs-102704.pdf
 
So let us back to the original question of this thread - is it possible/fine/OK/legal to file a PERM case without withdrawing the RIR case? Giving the person who would like to do so understands the old PD of RIR case will not be kept. Thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
charlie2003 said:
So let us back to the original question of this thread - is it possible/fine/OK/legal to file a PERM case without withdrawing the RIR case? Considering the person who would like to do so understands the old PD of RIR case will not be kept. Thanks!
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Sure - as long as the new LC filing is for a different position (which in the case discussed in this thread it appears to be because it has different requirements and salary)
 
If you think practically, an employer usually do not offer two positions at the same time, since LC is for a particular position. Legally you can't apply for two LC at the same time with the same employer. You have withdraw one. They might clarify this matter in the future.
 
GC_DJ said:
If you think practically, an employer usually do not offer two positions at the same time, since LC is for a particular position. Legally you can't apply for two LC at the same time with the same employer. You have withdraw one. They might clarify this matter in the future.
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Except the DOL is taking multiple years to process LC's, so an employer could offer two different positions over the time frame involved.
 
morpheus12 said:
Except the DOL is taking multiple years to process LC's, so an employer could offer two different positions over the time frame involved.
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If the employer offer a new position then he withdraws the earlier offer. I think the people who prepated the PERM regulatins did not anticipate this senario. Previously they did not allowed two LC's with same benificiary and employer filed at the same service center (they would have easily detected it since it is the same system). But now with PERM it might not be easy for them to detect it, but if they wish they could. I am afriad that if they detect multiple filing then what will they do.
 
Petitions are for employers not employee. 2 Seperate petitions for 2 different joboffers, one for EB2 and other for EB3 is fine. Based on my research it "would b"e a problem if you file 2 LC's having similar job requirement. However it should not cause a problem if the petitions are different. However the requirement for EB3 and EB2 are drastically different. A very high salary is one of them.

PS: I'm not an attorney. Please get in touch with an attorney to clarify this info.
 
Attorney - please clarify

I have a very similar problem.

I have a RIR pending case that was sent to Chicago DOL in Feb, 2004. My 6th year on H1 will expire in June, 2005. I'm considering filling a new LC under PERM and keeping the old one for the purpose of subsequent H1 extentions. Please note that:

1) I'm not interested in retaining my PD since my country is not affected by retrogression.

2) I want to file a new LC under PERM where job position would be different in terms of location. The old LC had Iowa, the new one is going to have NJ as the future location.

Can I keep the old LC? Again, PD is not of concern to me. I want a new PERM based LC and keep the old one just for the purpose of H1 extentions.

Thanks!
 
No Parallel RIR & PERM Allowed

From http://www.immigration-law.com/

01/11/2005: Report from Chicago: No Parallel Applications Permitted Without Losing Priority Date

* When people refile a PERM application without dislosing the pending application, the National Processing Centers will access the database at the BPCs to see whether any cases are pending for the employer and the employee. Accordingly, parallel filing of PERM application and non-PERM application will be blocked by the DOL. Such policy will enhance the risk of conversion and a fewer employers may attempt conversion fiing.
 
agtmc2ae said:
From http://www.immigration-law.com/

01/11/2005: Report from Chicago: No Parallel Applications Permitted Without Losing Priority Date

* When people refile a PERM application without dislosing the pending application, the National Processing Centers will access the database at the BPCs to see whether any cases are pending for the employer and the employee. Accordingly, parallel filing of PERM application and non-PERM application will be blocked by the DOL. Such policy will enhance the risk of conversion and a fewer employers may attempt conversion fiing.
Click to expand...
* 01/11/2005: Report from Chicago: 45 - 60 Day Processing Time for PERM Does not Apply to Conversion Cases

Another disappointing news for the conversion case is the processing times for such cases. DOL confirms that the processing time for conversion cases will be much longer than non-conversion PERM applications. DOL did not disclose the anticipated specific processing times for the conversion cases. It just stated that the processing times will be shorter than the current backlog cases waiting times, meaning it can be within two years or so. Uh?!

* 01/11/2005: Report from Chicago: No Parallel Applications Permitted Without Losing Priority Date

When people refile a PERM application without dislosing the pending application, the National Processing Centers will access the database at the BPCs to see whether any cases are pending for the employer and the employee. Accordingly, parallel filing of PERM application and non-PERM application will be blocked by the DOL. Such policy will enhance the risk of conversion and a fewer employers may attempt conversion fiing.
from innigration-law.com.

i just wana know what do they mean by conversion? let's analyse the following scenario.

i have an RIR pending now, and it seems with BEC it will take another 1.5 yrs to get it cleared. therefore i'm thinking of applying to perm. but the above 2 points metioned in immigration-law confused me.

can i withdraw the RIR and forget about its PD. then apply fresh to PERM and i will be considered a new applicant or a applicant who did conversion? i'm asking that because they said that for conversion u have to wait for more than 45 or 60 days. can u clarify what conversion exactly means?
 
antonioa77 said:

* 01/11/2005: Report from Chicago: No Parallel Applications Permitted Without Losing Priority Date
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This is confusing. I don't care about the PD. I do care about parallel RIR and PERM. If parallel cases are not allowed at all then it should read: "No Parallel Applications Permitted". :confused:
 
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