on 1/18 all greencard holder must be fingerprinted when returning to the US, nobody objects to this?

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foureyesimmigra

Registered Users (C)
on 1/18 all greencard holder must be fingerprinted when returning to the US, nobody objects to this?

The DHS has already made this official.

of course, there are exceptions.... if you're a Canadian short-term visitor,
you don't need to get fingerprinted.... but if you're a Canadian holding a
US greencard, then you will get fingerprinted...

by the way, if you refuse to be fingerprinted, you'll not be let it....

half of my family are already naturalized citizens... but it will affect them
as well.... since greencard holders use the same lanes as US citizens at
airports, it will no doubt cause delays....
 
Whaledad said:
The fingerprint scan only takes 2 seconds.
If it makes our country safer, no, I don't object.

Wd
Click to expand...

I guess bad guys who use fake/forged US greencards will now have to
use fake/forged US passports to gain entry..... :(

I don't actually object to the fingerprinting process.... but EVERYONE
should be fingerprinted.... (foreigners, greencard holders, citizens, etc)
 
Whaledad said:
The fingerprint scan only takes 2 seconds.
If it makes our country safer, no, I don't object.
Click to expand...
It won't make the country safer unless they extend it to citizens. Somebody who would have used a fake or stolen green card will just use a fake or stolen passport instead, to avoid the fingerprinting.

Meanwhile, it makes the country less safe as it promotes the spread of disease. Hundreds of people per day bringing their viruses and bacteria from all around the world will be touching that same surface, and I'm sure the govt won't be wiping it off frequently with alcohol, like I see them do for the green card fingerprinting at USCIS offices.
 
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Jackolantern said:
Hundreds of people per day bringing their viruses and bacteria from all around the world will be touching that same surface...
Click to expand...
Bullocks! What about buttons in elevators, railings along stairs, etc. etc. You manage to avoid all of those?

Wd
 
Whaledad said:
Bullocks! What about buttons in elevators, railings along stairs, etc. etc. You manage to avoid all of those?
Click to expand...
You can take the stairs and don't touch the railings, or use your elbow or a knuckle or umbrella to push the elevator button. And usually the people using elevators and stairs in daily life are local people carrying local viruses and bacteria to which people have built up immunity.

But the people touching the fingerprint surface can't use an elbow or other instrument instead, and many are carrying foreign germs that are unfamiliar to our immune systems.

Now I will personally protect myself by using hand sanitizer afterwards, but most people probably won't, which would promote the spread of disease and drive up medical costs for all of us even if I don't personally catch anything.
 
Jackolantern said:
But the people touching the fingerprint surface can't use an elbow or other instrument instead, and many are carrying foreign germs that are unfamiliar to our immune systems.
Click to expand...

After spending several hours in an enclosed tube using recirculated ventilation with these foreign germs and then mingling in the airport lobbies, you're worried about a hand scanner?
 
TheRealCanadian said:
After spending several hours in an enclosed tube using recirculated ventilation with these foreign germs and then mingling in the airport lobbies, you're worried about a hand scanner?
Click to expand...
That's also a problem, but it's due to the nature of airline technology, not a government-imposed rule declared to keep society "safer".

I'm not claiming that spending time in an enclosed space like that makes one safer from anything. It's you and the government who are making that claim.

Also, there are many diseases that don't spread effectively through the air but are spread by touch. And I would be coming from the same place as the other people (apart from the subset were on the plane because they were transiting from elsewhere), so whatever air-transmissible "foreign germs" they have are germs I may have already been exposed to on my trip, whereas people from a hundred different countries can touch the fingerprint machine in a day.

And the existence of one problem doesn't mean another is to be ignored. If one guy is pointing a gun at me, I'm also going to worry about the other guy who has a baseball bat.
 
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Jackolantern said:
I'm not claiming that spending time in an enclosed space like that makes one safer from anything. It's you and the government who are making that claim.
Click to expand...

Please read my post again. I am not making that specific claim - only that you are many, many times more likely to catch a disease during your several hours in the aircraft than you are over a hand scanner.

Also, there are many diseases that don't spread effectively through the air but are spread by touch.
Click to expand...

Please list some diseases that can be transmitted through unbroken skin. Inquiring minds would like to know. :) Disney World uses biometric scanners to handle hundreds of thousands of people a day. Oddly enough, there's no mass epidemics of diseases there.

It seems to me that you're casting about for reasons why this is a bad idea, rather than arguing from a point of microbiological fact.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Please read my post again. I am not making that specific claim - only that you are many, many times more likely to catch a disease during your several hours in the aircraft than you are over a hand scanner.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not. But that's not really relevant, as that isn't changing. The fingerprinting is what is changing. Repeated finger-touching is an added safety risk to society (however small it might be); taking the fingerprints isn't an increase in safety.
Please list some diseases that can be transmitted through unbroken skin.
Click to expand...
They exist, but I don't need to find them now. People touch their hands to their eyes or noses or mouths, and then the disease is spread. And some people have cuts or sores on their fingers.

Note that I am not talking about my personal risk of catching anything, as I will protect myself. I'm talking about the aggregate health risk. Although I'm not sure if there would be a way to protect myself if I had a cut on my fingertip ... are they going to exempt people with wounded fingers or allow them to use only intact fingers?

Disney World uses biometric scanners to handle hundreds of thousands of people a day.
Click to expand...
That's also increasing the risk of diseases. But most people there aren't coming off fresh off an international flight with their hands still carrying foreign pathogens. And I would suppose they are cleaning it frequently enough to comply with the local health codes. But there is a good chance that diseases are being spread by them anyway ... look how rampant the flu is. I'm sure many people get the flu after going to Disney.

And anyway, they're irrelevant as they aren't a government agency imposing something to keep us "safer".
It seems to me that you're casting about for reasons why this is a bad idea, rather than arguing from a point of microbiological fact.
Click to expand...
I'm pointing out one of the ways that it decreases safety to society. It's a microbiological fact that some diseases are spread by touching contaminated surfaces (even if subsequent touching to the mouth or nose or eyes or food may be a required extra step).
 
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Jackolantern said:
They exist, but I don't need to find them now.
Click to expand...

Yes, you do. You're the one running around crying that this is some gigantic health risk, not me. You're making an assertion and then stating you don't need to back it up.

Do you have an MD in microbiology, or a post-graduate degree in public health or epidemiology?
Can you provide us with data that predicts what the increased risk of foreign pathogens will be, and is that increased risk statistically significant?
Has there been a recorded increase in illness among foreign nationals since US-VISIT?

Those are legitimate questions to ask. I'd be curious to hear your answers.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Yes, you do. You're the one running around crying that this is some gigantic health risk, not me.
Click to expand...
You are the one who used the word "gigantic", not me.

Do you have an MD in microbiology, or a post-graduate degree in public health or epidemiology?
Click to expand...
That is not necessary in order to know that some diseases are spread by touching. But hey, if you disbelieve that, then don't wash your hands.
 
If health risk from fingerprinting machine is so high, I guess you already got a million of viruses in the plane.
I'd be more worried about traffic accident.
 
There are some countries whose people never or seldom use toilet papers to finish off their business.
 
First, I would hope that USCIS would enforce education of these rules not just onto the passengers, but also on the people working at the airports and authorities dealing with passengers such as travel agents. I say this because last time I travelled abroad, at departure time I wanted to make sure that my case in the NSEERS section was fully satisfied and complete/closed as I was now a GC holder. Nobody at the airport (including airline staff) knew anything about the NSEERS or special registration program. Newark airport was also one of the trial places for the US-VISIT kiosks, but I couldn't find any of those either.

Secondly, trying to look at the positive aspects out of this. If through finger print scanning, they can avoid my last name matching someone who has an arrest warrant issued against them, then I am all for it. After a really long journey, the last thing I want to see is them taking me to a secondary inspection room and spending two hours figuring out my name match every single time I travel abroad.

Just my two cents, for now at least, tommorow is another day.


Stoned!
 
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