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How to initiate removal proceedings

Discussion in 'Exclusion or Removal from USA' started by Arizona32, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Arizona32

    Arizona32 Registered Users (C)

    I am a US citizen. I now have a competent immigration attorney. My wife, originally from Mexico, was denied her I-485 about 4 years ago because government believes she made oral false claim citizenship when entering the country-no, she had no visa-and yes, the false claim issue came up during the adjustment status interview. We reapplied within the last year, and I-485 was again denied-we made clear that she made claim of being "american" and not "us citizen"... (I know, this is a whole other debate/question about the difference). Anyway, the government thinks it is one and the same, which we're fighting. After second denial, we submitted a motion to reconsider, which was denied today (seems they didn't even read our motion based on the response). Since my wife is a mother of two with no criminal record, I have my doubts immigration will initiate removal proceedings.

    However, we want to have removal proceedings initiated so we can renew our application with the immigration court (it seems like a less expensive way of fighting our case-our other option being a Declaratory Action in District Court).

    How can we force the issue and initiate removal proceedings without my wife going to jail for 2 or 3 weeks before having a bond hearing (this is what would happen if we walked into the ICE office here in Phoenix as I understand it)? My attorney has no new ideas of how to do this.
  2. AzBlk

    AzBlk Registered Users (C)

    ICE most likely will not initiate removal in cases like this when their chances of losing in court are high. I even doubt that she would be detained if she walked into the ICE office in phoenix and turned herself in. The only options you have are to wait until they get around to sending a NTA or you can take the fight to them by suing in federal court.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2009
  3. bahamas68

    bahamas68 Registered Users (C)

    About "However, we want to have removal proceedings initiated so we can renew our application with the immigration court" Keep in mind that once your wife's case goes to immigration court, she will be in the deportation process. It's will no longer be about the case that you filed. It will be about trying to find some form of relief to prevent her from being deported. The case that you had with USCIS is over at that point.
    As to relate to timing, be prepared to wait.
    1. You will wait a while for USCIS to issue you an NTA.
    2. You will further wait after they issue you an NTA for them to file it with the court.
    3. Now you will need to wait for whatever schedule the court sets which in itself take sometime.
    There's really nothing you can do but to be patient at this stage.
  4. dafortycal

    dafortycal Registered Users (C)

    I'm surprised that the government is pushing the point of the false claim. When I was with immigration, the standard question was "Of what country are you a citizen or national of?" The problem with that was, you had had to prove that the person knew what a US citizen or US national was. This was norally done with have them make a sworn statement, or other evidence such as them listing their place of birth on a form as someplace in the USA. Most people know what a citizen of a country is, but not so much with the term "national". If the person claimed to be a "American" that pretty much means the person is a citizen of the United States and not a national. She should have claimed to have been a North American, that would have been a truthful statement. As far as a bond hearing goes, people should understand that immigration bonds are not 10% of the total, they are the full amount. I'm also not sure if a person that has made a false claim will be given bond.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2009
  5. dafortycal

    dafortycal Registered Users (C)

    If I were writing the NTA, it would read:

    212(a)(6)(A)(i) - Alien Present Without Admission or Parole
    212(a)(6)(C)(ii) - False Claim to U.S. Citizenship

    1. You are not a citizen or national of the United States;

    2. You are a native of __________ and a citizen of ______________;

    3. You arrived in the United States at or near ______________, on or about _________________;

    4. On or about ____________, you falsely represented yourself to be a United States citizen for the following purpose or benefit: ____________________.

    5. You were not then admitted or paroled after inspection by an Immigration Officer.


    212(a)(6)(A)(i) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended, in that you are an alien present in the United States without being admitted or paroled, or who arrived in the United States at any time or place other than as designated by the Attorney General.

    Section 212(a)(6)(C)(ii) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (Act), as amended, as an alien who falsely represents, or has falsely represented, himself or herself to be a citizen of the United States for a purpose or benefit under the Act (including section 274A) or any other Federal or State law.

    A violation of either one will get you deported, there are other charges that I might be able to add. In this case, the governments attorney would use her appliaction or interview notes against her to prove its case. They would just ask "Have you ever claimed to be a American, and did you make this claim to a U.S Immigration Officer" followed by, "do you possess any documents that allow you to enter, work or remain in the United States."

    Don't foget, the name of this country is the "United States of America," not United States of U.S citizens. Just look to our south, "Mexico" is not the complete name for that nation.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  6. Arizona32

    Arizona32 Registered Users (C)

    The Americas were named by a fellow named Americo Vespucio, and if you look at the origins of the name, he named the land mass/continent, not a specific country. To think we have the exclusive rights to call ourselves american I think reflects our lack of understanding of both history and other cultures, and our self centeredness as a country. If you travel to South America (they refer to our continent as America, not north, central, or south america by the way), and told them you were an american, they would ask you what country you were from (and yes, I've had the opportunity to live in a few countries in the southern Americas). If someone declared themselves to be European, you would ask them what country they are from. If someone declared themselves as African, you would ask them what country they belong too. The only people you wouldn't ask would be the Australians. The statute/law clearly states a false claim to U.S. citizenship, not a national, not an american. Can a U.S. National be an american? If so, are they falsely claiming U.S. Citizenship? But the courts have determined that a claim to being a national is not a claim to USC. When you start equating different statements with U.S. Claims to Citizenship, you start down a slippery slope. If you look at a mexican coin, it reads Estados Unidos Mexicanos, which for those that are lacking in spanish means United States of Mexico. So if I declared myself to be a member of the United States, is that a false claim to USC? The mexican coinage clearly lays claim to "united states", or does the US have a monopoly on that term too. By the way, my wife never presented any documents with her claim of being an American. And yes, she is an American-maybe not one by some peoples narrow definition, but by the standards and definition of the majority of the world, and by the definition of the person that named the continent.
  7. Arizona32

    Arizona32 Registered Users (C)

    Dafortycal, you may be correct in how things are going to shake out, but we are optimistic about my wife's defense. In may not pan out until we get to the board of immigration appeals or higher, but we are going to give it a go. The Ciudad Juarez consulate, according to their own officials, are stating that a minor is incapable of a false claim to USC. My wife was a minor at the time. If we go to Federal Court on the matter, we are optimistic that they will see the minor entering into a verbal contract as null, regardless of the difference of American vs USC.
  8. dafortycal

    dafortycal Registered Users (C)

    Why don't you speak with your local US Congressman about him doing a "private" bill on your wifes behalf. :cool:
  9. Arizona32

    Arizona32 Registered Users (C)

    Thanks for the suggestion. I've asked a few different attorneys about private bills, and they seem to think unless my wife is a widow because I gave my life in Iraq, then I would have no chance. I've gone online and found a few scenarios very similar to my wife's where private bills are involved, and actually followed them online through the bill tracking system, and have not found one to pass (these people seemed just like me-hard working, educated, ordinary, tax paying, law abiding citizens; nothing spectacular in their circumstances). I still pursued the idea by going to Congressman Flakes office here in AZ. He is a pro immigration republican who is actively involved in immigration reform. I decided to start small, get some help with my FOIA. The congressional liaison unfortunately was the most useless person in the world. She did absolutely nothing after 2 months, and I would ask her specific questions as to what she did, and I would get a song and dance that was unbelievable. Flake is even related to me-although distantly. Anyway, I think my best chance is to fight everything out, and hope President Obama includes a false claim provision in his amnesty reform. I've looked at previous reform proposals from the Bush era, and changes to the false claim usc seems to have been addressed in past proposals that would be favorable to my situation.
  10. aosing

    aosing Registered Users (C)

    If you have a competent immigration attorney, why are you posting on a message board asking how to get your wife into removal proceedings (terrible idea by the way).

    Your attorney would be the correct person to ask about whether your wife's theory that she told an immigration officer, while holding no visa, that she was an "American," when asked about her citizenship, (her account anyway), is likely to hold water as not being a false claim, likewise her theory that as a minor she could not make a false claim.
  11. hoping in 2009

    hoping in 2009 Registered Users (C)

    Have you tried other lawyers to get more ideas on this matter??

    Personally I always thought it was just plain st**id to only orally ask people at the borders if they were US citizens or not!! WHERE was the proof?? AT least they caught up to their own mistake and now require passports or passport cards to cross a border.
  12. trialanderror83

    trialanderror83 Registered Users (C)

    She should have never ADMITTED to saying she was American, deny, deny, deny. Let them prove it in writing....
    The minute she admitted that she was screwed

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