greeting from u.s.-canada border

[windywd]

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:


Move to another country intending to live there permanently.
Remain outside of the US for more than one year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
Remain outside of the US for more than two years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the US for any period.
Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns.

It is actually not that easy to "abandon" PR, as long as you file tax return and maintain certain "link". One option to me is to request my company to re-locate me to their Canadian office. This actually both satisfies Canadian and U.S. law....

 

[LolaLi]

I want to caution people who while holding only an American green card apply for Canadian permanent residence. You are playing with fire. I am attaching a circuit court decision affirming the INS's revocation of a PR's status for his ties to Canada. And I can assure you that many similar cases are resolved unfavourably against aliens within the Immigration Court system (and are therefore unpublished).

Be careful and plan accordingly.

Take care.

Thanks for the case law hampton8844... but at the risk of being attacked - I will have to say that this case is entirely different than the one discribed. I would like to point out several facts:

1. The defendant was already a canadian PR at the time of getting US GC
2. The defendant stayed in the US for a total of 3 months!
3. The defendant then went back to Canada and stayed a total of 2 years - resuming his normal life
4. The defendant didn't work and pay taxes for 2 years in the US (while living in Canada)
5. The defendant was out of the US for a total of 3 years - he left right after getting his GC and never came back during those 3 years
6. The defendant applied for Canadian citizenship after he was supposedly a US GC holder - although the INS had indicated that would have been okay had he came back to live and work in the US

I mean let me play the devil's advocate for the fun of it.... What if:
1. One was already a US PR for 3 years already and applied for Canadian PR
2. What if one just visited Canada every other month (for a total of maybe 90 days the entire year)
3. What if one never got a job in Canada or bought a car or house ,etc
4. What if one maintained his/her job in the US, paid taxes, had an apartment or home, had a car, paid taxes, etc through the 2 years of being dual uS and Canadian PR
5. And ofcourse this person would have to apply for US citizenship BEFORE applying for canadian citizenship

What about these conditions? I don't think in this case (whether or not there are family ties or bank accounts in Canada) that CIS can find you to have abandoned your PR status. It makes absolutely no sense.

The funny thing is hampton - if you can find out for me - is how did the INS find out about this guy? I'm assuming he never hid the fact that he was gone right? Maybe the stamps on his passport? Maybe he divulged the info? How would the INS find all of this out? I am very curious about this.

Cheers!

 

[Lazerthegreat]

Hey! Can anybody point out if "border crossing database" and airline databases are linked?? for example if someone uses NP to fly to canada and then is coming back by road on RTD!! can CIS find out about it. In other words are air & land databases linked..? just asking out of curiousity..

 

[sadasylee]

Yes. A US green card is good enough to enter Canada. No RTD is needed on each side of the US-Canada border, I believe.

I was under the assumption that to travel to canada you only need green card. do you need RTD so that you enter back to us with out a problem?

 

[sadasylee]

As I understand:
To maintain a Canadian green card, you must live there for 2 years out of 5 years.
To maintain a US green card, you must live here for 6 months each year.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Windwy, Fair enough that you can have multiple PR's however how do you plan to maintain both PR's? Everytime you enter U.S or CAnada and leave Canada, it will be noted so what is the point of having a Canadian PR when you can't succesfully become a canadian citizen?

How can one maintain PR for both countries without getting in trouble legally?

 

[sadasylee]

Windwd,
You did land on Canada!! You are the man, or woman
Congratulations for having dual PRship

Are you 100% sure that an asylee can keep both US and Canadian permanent residency without being killed (status revoked) by USCIS ? It would be great if true. Thanks!

 

[hampton8844]

Thanks for the case law hampton8844... but at the risk of being attacked - I will have to say that this case is entirely different than the one discribed. I would like to point out several facts:

1. The defendant was already a canadian PR at the time of getting US GC
2. The defendant stayed in the US for a total of 3 months!
3. The defendant then went back to Canada and stayed a total of 2 years - resuming his normal life
4. The defendant didn't work and pay taxes for 2 years in the US (while living in Canada)
5. The defendant was out of the US for a total of 3 years - he left right after getting his GC and never came back during those 3 years
6. The defendant applied for Canadian citizenship after he was supposedly a US GC holder - although the INS had indicated that would have been okay had he came back to live and work in the US

I mean let me play the devil's advocate for the fun of it.... What if:
1. One was already a US PR for 3 years already and applied for Canadian PR
2. What if one just visited Canada every other month (for a total of maybe 90 days the entire year)
3. What if one never got a job in Canada or bought a car or house ,etc
4. What if one maintained his/her job in the US, paid taxes, had an apartment or home, had a car, paid taxes, etc through the 2 years of being dual uS and Canadian PR
5. And ofcourse this person would have to apply for US citizenship BEFORE applying for canadian citizenship

What about these conditions? I don't think in this case (whether or not there are family ties or bank accounts in Canada) that CIS can find you to have abandoned your PR status. It makes absolutely no sense.

The funny thing is hampton - if you can find out for me - is how did the INS find out about this guy? I'm assuming he never hid the fact that he was gone right? Maybe the stamps on his passport? Maybe he divulged the info? How would the INS find all of this out? I am very curious about this.

Cheers!

The case is certainly not exactly on point. It is only illustrative. My whole point in posting the decision was to remind people that as a matter of law US permanent residency can be easily lost if they determine that you have no intention of living here permanently AND that the USCIS takes this responsibility very seriously. A green card holder simply has no ABSOLUTE right to remain in the United States. As I indicated in my initial posting the Board of Immigration Appeal has plenty of unpublished decisions revoking LPR status of individuals who try to immigrate to a third country.

To reiterate, to maintain your green card here you have to have the intention of remaining here permanently. Enough said.

 

[hampton8844]

As I understand:
To maintain a US green card, you must live here for 6 months each year.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Living here for six months is not sufficient per se. The legal test is having the intention (as opposed to the desire) of remaining in the United States permanently. They apply a totality of circumstances test. The nature of your activities in the US is very important.

 

[Singh6]

Hello Guys…,

I just came across this thread… it has great information about dual PRs (Canadian & US)….. I happen to come across similar scenario…. When my US status was ‘Asylee’ then I had applied for Canadian Immigration because of certain reasons……

1. US green card process was getting too late…..there was a huge backlog…..
2. My spouse was stuck in my COP…. And IO refused issuing her US visa …(she had to spent so long there.. finally I won this case from USCIS, but she had already arrived by then). In the mean time I thought to apply for Canadian PR so that at least my spouse could immigrate out of my COP.

I have come across such a point that both of my PR applications (Canadian & US) got approved almost at the same time…(first US and then 1 day later –Canadian). I am interested to take Canadian PR as well, but really confused...

My wife (a derivative asylee)’s I-485 is in process and my child is a US citizen… They are going to receive canadian PR visas with me. I was assuming that my wife shouldn’t get this Canadian PR at this stage because it might effect her US PR application…..

I am doing some high profile technical job in US and I can get a letter stating the same from my employer ....(if it helps me to prove my ties with US while crossing the border)... I also have my own small company registerd in US (2nd tie with this country)... I am father of a US citizen (3rd tie with this country).... and if my wife doesnt take Canadian immigration at this stage... then she will be my another tie with US

Please advice that how should I pursue…..

 

[shahmatist]

Canadian PR holders,

Did you do the process with an attorney? if yes can you recommend me anyone...

Also, if possible could you explain the process and timeframe of getting Canadian PR through skilled worker program.

thanks in advance

 

[Singh6]

Jubilee... Thanks for your reply...As I already mentioned I had applied for Canadian Immigration when my wife wasn't able to get her US visa eventhough her I-730 was already approved... I do not need Canadian PR at this stage, but I have very short time period to decide, if I do not accept it now then it will be gone forever... and all my hard work on studying/submitting the documents/RFEs will get waste. I thought to take it (if it doesnt harm my US green card) first and then decide that how can I use it.... May be it will help me to expand my business ... may be it will help my wife to get further education.... because there are very few schools over here in US which give admission to foreign graduated people in her profession... The only thing which I am concerned about is.. I do not want to see any un-necessary issues in my US status.

 

[wantmygcnow]

Jubilee... Thanks for your reply...As I already mentioned I had applied for Canadian Immigration when my wife wasn't able to get her US visa eventhough her I-730 was already approved... I do not need Canadian PR at this stage, but I have very short time period to decide, if I do not accept it now then it will be gone forever... and all my hard work on studying/submitting the documents/RFEs will get waste. I thought to take it (if it doesnt harm my US green card) first and then decide that how can I use it.... May be it will help me to expand my business ... may be it will help my wife to get further education.... because there are very few schools over here in US which give admission to foreign graduated people in her profession... The only thing which I am concerned about is.. I do not want to see any un-necessary issues in my US status.

Be careful. This is from another message board:

Hi Praveen,

I have my green card since July 2004. I just went in to U.S
for 10 days, returned to canada in 8 months and was
asked why I had been out that long. It was also marked
in my passport, that I had been out for 8 months. I
was warned that I need to get a re-entry permit if I
want to stay out for more than a year, but everyone
was pretty friendly. I stayed in the USA for 5 months
then, and this will be my 3rd trip after 5 months of
absence.

My husband has never been in the US for longer that 10
days since he got his green card 2004 with me, and was
never asked anything except last time when he was out
for 8 months and basically the same thing happened to
him. So, so far we have not had any problems, but as
you see we have not had our green cards that long. I
did not want to risk staying out of the country for 2
consecutive periods of over 6 months.

I hope this helps and will let you know how it goes
this time.

Best wishes,

Katia

 

[Singh6]

My Landing Experience:

Hi guys... 'thought to share one more experience... maybe it could be beneficial for some of you.....I am a US PR now and my Canadian Immigration was approved in Quebec selected skilled immigration class almost at the same time when my I-485 was approved. I went to the border along with my US citizen friend (who was just visiting Canada) in a rental car.

I landed at Seattle/Vancouver border. I thought that since I am not landing at Quebec borders so I might face some problem but landing experience was such an easy that almost no special question asked, it took around 10-15 minutes including standing in the line, going to rest room etc. IO checked the landing paper-asked my first name, last name etc -- asked me to do my initials at couple of places and sign it. Then he asked if I remember from the original application about the money that I will bring with my landing -- I gave him the round figure and told him that I have my bank statement with me but he simply wrote the amount on the landing doc and no statement/doc was checked. He gave me a piece of paper to notify about my address later so that they could mail my PR out there. He congratulated me …. Stood up to shake hands…That’s it!!

Custom officers were so nice as well, I told them that I am not importing any thing but they advised me to put as much stuff as I can on ‘Goods to follow list’ so that I could import all that ‘duty free’ (no duty on OR up to CAN $ 10,000.00 per item) in the future. They also advised to put VIN number of my personal car as well so that whenever/if-ever I would decide to import it then I could get the same duty free benefit AND until then it will always be considered as not-imported. So I entered VIN number of my personal car as well which I was not driving.

While driving back, it took 1-4 minutes at US border, IO took my green card and my friend’s proof of Citizenship, verified those documents in his computer, asked ‘if we were bringing anything from Canada’ -- answered …. That’s it. He returned our docs back -- with smiling 'good evening'.

 

[wantmygcnow]

Singh,

Do you plan to become USC or plan to migrate to canada?

 

[CJay75]

I have the similar Q as QSHEBA asked:

What do we need to take along :::
just a GD or Travel Doc as well?
do you have to inform at the border where are you going to stay in CANADA?

thanks in adv

CIAO

 

[Singh6]

Want..... I plan to become a USC, I am not sure that what am I gonna do with my Canadian GC.

CJay75.... while travelling in personal/rental car, U need only US GC to go to Canada OR to come back to USA (Unless you are landing). They do not ask you about the place where you gonna stay in your temporary visit.

But, if you are landing in Canada, you do need ur NP/RTD with Canadian PR visa + landing docs to shows to Canadian IO, you can give them your canadian address to receive your Canadian PR in mail OR you can fax your address info to them later. Again you need only US GC to come back to USA by same vehicle.