FOIPA request, is notarized signature needed?

H

Huracan

Registered Users (C)
Hello,

I have thought about asking for my A-file through a FOIPA request (I am assuming a FOIA request would only include public records, the P is for Privacy). However, one thing that has always stopped me is doing the notarized signature. Anyway, I would be curious to hear from people who have sent a FOIPA request for their A-file how did they do it and if there is any important thing to know before sending it.

From the handbook it seems if one is first party requester one can send it without notarized signature, but the G-639 pdf form doesn't seem to allow this :confused:

This if from the handbook:

First Party Requester
A request for release of records by the subject of the records or his/her representative or attorney is considered a first-party request. The subject of the record must sign the request and/or provide proof of identity for the record to be released. If the subject of the record is a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR) or a United States Citizen (USC), the signature must either be notarized or submitted under penalty of perjury as a substitute for notarization. See (6 C.F.R. § 5.21(d)).
To prevent a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, first party requesters are required to identify themselves by submitting their full name, current address, date and place of birth, and alien registration number.
 
Huracan said:
Hello,

I have thought about asking for my A-file through a FOIPA request (I am assuming a FOIA request would only include public records, the P is for Privacy). However, one thing that has always stopped me is doing the notarized signature. Anyway, I would be curious to hear from people who have sent a FOIPA request for their A-file how did they do it and if there is any important thing to know before sending it.

From the handbook it seems if one is first party requester one can send it without notarized signature, but the G-639 pdf form doesn't seem to allow this :confused:

This if from the handbook:

First Party Requester
A request for release of records by the subject of the records or his/her representative or attorney is considered a first-party request. The subject of the record must sign the request and/or provide proof of identity for the record to be released. If the subject of the record is a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR) or a United States Citizen (USC), the signature must either be notarized or submitted under penalty of perjury as a substitute for notarization. See (6 C.F.R. § 5.21(d)).
To prevent a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, first party requesters are required to identify themselves by submitting their full name, current address, date and place of birth, and alien registration number.
Click to expand...

Just curious on a couple of counts (you don't have to answer):

- Why are you unwilling to get your signature notarized? I mean it's a simple task.

- Why would you need your A-file, now that you have completed your immig journey? You might have other stuff going on for family members, but why do you need your A-file?

Good luck in any case.
 
TheRealist said:
Just curious on a couple of counts (you don't have to answer):

- Why are you unwilling to get your signature notarized? I mean it's a simple task.

- Why would you need your A-file, now that you have completed your immig journey? You might have other stuff going on for family members, but why do you need your A-file?

Good luck in any case.
Click to expand...

Not unwilling, just don't want to spend the ten bucks ;) if I don't need to. It is not a high barrier, I agree.

I don't need the file I am just curious to see what its contents are, see if there are documents beyond what I provided, or notes made by IOs. I don't need it for any particular purpose. As you point out I am done with the immigration process, so it is not that I need it for anything in particular, it's about for the same reason I would get a credit report, make sure there are no big errors, curiosity about the content of the file, and it is about one of the few things in USCIS that don't cost money ;)
 
I am going to take the risk. I am sending the letter without notarized signature. This is how I filled out the form. Please let me know if you see an obvious mistake:

Part 1. I chose Privacy Act
Part 2. I put my information
Part 3. I put nothing
Part 4. I wrote "Alien file" fot the documents desired.
Part 5. I put name, A number, country of birth and date of birth.
Part 6. I put Other and said "Sworn declaration"
Part 7. I signed and dated
Part 8. I signed under Executed in U.S.
 
Well if you are mailing in the form then you do need to get the signature notarized along with an ID. I filled out the form in 2005 and since I was not requesting it in person, I had to get a notary public to affirm my identity. In my case, my bank notarizes for free so I didn't have to pay a fee.

If you haven't sent the form in yet, I would recommend you get the notary and include a copy of your driver's license.
 
Huracan said:
Not unwilling, just don't want to spend the ten bucks ;) if I don't need to. It is not a high barrier, I agree.

I don't need the file I am just curious to see what its contents are, see if there are documents beyond what I provided, or notes made by IOs. I don't need it for any particular purpose. As you point out I am done with the immigration process, so it is not that I need it for anything in particular, it's about for the same reason I would get a credit report, make sure there are no big errors, curiosity about the content of the file, and it is about one of the few things in USCIS that don't cost money ;)
Click to expand...

If u find 'big' errors, would u even attempt to correct it :)
or forget it, ur a citizen anyway.

More likely u may find 'small' errors if any, small but annoying errors for perfectionists that some of us maybe.
 
LolaLi said:
Well if you are mailing in the form then you do need to get the signature notarized along with an ID. I filled out the form in 2005 and since I was not requesting it in person, I had to get a notary public to affirm my identity. In my case, my bank notarizes for free so I didn't have to pay a fee.

If you haven't sent the form in yet, I would recommend you get the notary and include a copy of your driver's license.
Click to expand...

Hi LolaLi,

Thanks for the advice. I haven't sent it yet, but I have already printed, sealed and stamped the envelope. I might still take the risk. This is not something that I really, really need. So if they come back to me and say that this is not acceptable that would be a data point for me and others. If it works, that might be helpful to others too.

By the way, do you see any obvious mistake in the way I filled out the form, except for the notarized signature. In particular I had doubt about FOIA or PA (Privacy Act) but it looked to me like PA is what was needed.

Thanks.
 
CrossHairs said:
If u find 'big' errors, would u even attempt to correct it :)
or forget it, ur a citizen anyway.

More likely u may find 'small' errors if any, small but annoying errors for perfectionists that some of us maybe.
Click to expand...

Hi CrossHairs,

Yes, my sentence was not very clear. When I mentioned big errors I was already thinking about my analogy with the credit report, not with any of my applications. I am not expecting anything big on the A-file. I am more curious about how USCIS fills all those for official use only fields or any other comments or annotations. I would also be curious to see if there is anything on that file that wasn't provided by me, but that they acquired from a different source. In general I am curious to learn what goes on after I sent my application on the mail.
 
Huracan said:
Hello,

From the handbook it seems if one is first party requester one can send it without notarized signature, but the G-639 pdf form doesn't seem to allow this :confused:

This if from the handbook:

First Party Requester
A request for release of records by the subject of the records or his/her representative or attorney is considered a first-party request. The subject of the record must sign the request and/or provide proof of identity for the record to be released. If the subject of the record is a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR) or a United States Citizen (USC), the signature must either be notarized or submitted under penalty of perjury as a substitute for notarization. See (6 C.F.R. § 5.21(d)).
To prevent a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, first party requesters are required to identify themselves by submitting their full name, current address, date and place of birth, and alien registration number.
Click to expand...

Looking at the G-639 form , it does allow a statement under penalty of perjury as a substitute to a notarized signature:

OR
NOTE: If a declaration is provided in lieu of a notarized signature, it must state at a minimum the following: (Include Notary Seal or Stampin the appropriate space below.)

this is compliance with 6 CFR 5.21(d) that states:

(d) Verification of identity. When you
make a request for access to records
about yourself, you must verify your
identity. You must state your full
name, current address, and date and
place of birth. You must sign your request
and your signature must either
be notarized or submitted by you under
28 U.S.C. 1746, a law that permits statements
to be made under penalty of perjury
as a substitute for notarization.
While no specific form is required, you
may obtain forms for this purpose from
the Departmental Disclosure Officer,
Department of Homeland Security,
Washington, DC 20528. In order to help
the identification and location of requested
records, you may also, at your
option, include your social security
number

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=6f2a4154d7b3d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD
 
So far so good. I got a letter from USCIS acknowledging receipt and asking me for some extra information to make sure I am the right person. I just sent the information back. I am number sixty four thousand something out of sixty five thousand people. It seems I am going to be waiting for a while. I called them up to find out more about the extra information they were asking me for and to request a CD instead of photocopies. I didn't say anything about the signature and they didn't say anything either, so it seems it worked without the notarized signature.
 
Hurcan,

If you don't mind my asking, why did you file the n565? My wife never got her certificate back from Passport Office. When we went to an interview to canadian consulate, they wanted proof that we were legally in the US, and they refused to accept her US passport as proof of citizenship. So we filed the n565 took about a year and almost $400. (sent wrong postage, and when we resubmitted they wanted the new fee :mad: )

lucky for me we applied because i applied for n400, family-based, so i guess it's good i had the cert. on hand at interview.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
JACKKmon said:
Hurcan,

If you don't mind my asking, why did you file the n565? My wife never got her certificate back from Passport Office. When we went to an interview to canadian consulate, they wanted proof that we were legally in the US, and they refused to accept her US passport as proof of citizenship. So we filed the n565 took about a year and almost $400. (sent wrong postage, and when we resubmitted they wanted the new fee :mad: )

lucky for me we applied because i applied for n400, family-based, so i guess it's good i had the cert. on hand at interview.
Click to expand...

Wow! They didn't accept the passport as proof of citizenship. I think I am going to paste your comment on another thread about N600 on the life after citizenship forum where other guy claims that obtaining a certificate of citizenship is a waste of time and money.

I don't mind you asking. The N565 is to replace a certificate of citizenship for my child which came with a typo error. I had applied N600 for the certificate of citizenship which came almost a year later with an error which I am trying to get corrected with the N565 to Nebraska service center. It's crazy that a N565 can take almost a year, it is breathtaking, upsetting, bad.
 
To be exact this is the story:

I went to file for the equivalent of the N600 in Canada for my US born children. I opted to do an interview (not mail my app.) at the consulate in NYC so that i won't have to send in the originals. I got an appointment, and had a woman officer accept the application, copy the originals and return them to me. The only question I was asked was our legal status in the US. I showed my GC and my wife's passport. So the woman said that the passport doesn't prove citizenship so i explained to her how the cert. was lost and told her I'll take my chances and she told me to file for a new one in case the Canadian authorities will ask to see it. Six months later they mailed me the cards to my address, registered mail to my father in law :confused: (had some explaining to do at PO :eek: )

about the N565, I want to know what would happen if for example the nat. cert. got lost with the passport application? does that mean i can't leave the country for a year till i get a replacement with N565? I understand from this forum that it's illegal to enter the US with a foreign passport.

I think i'll take the one day passport service not to take a chance of putting my life on hold for a year :D
 
JACKKmon said:
To be exact this is the story:

I went to file for the equivalent of the N600 in Canada for my US born children. I opted to do an interview (not mail my app.) at the consulate in NYC so that i won't have to send in the originals. I got an appointment, and had a woman officer accept the application, copy the originals and return them to me. The only question I was asked was our legal status in the US. I showed my GC and my wife's passport. So the woman said that the passport doesn't prove citizenship so i explained to her how the cert. was lost and told her I'll take my chances and she told me to file for a new one in case the Canadian authorities will ask to see it. Six months later they mailed me the cards to my address, registered mail to my father in law :confused: (had some explaining to do at PO :eek: )

about the N565, I want to know what would happen if for example the nat. cert. got lost with the passport application? does that mean i can't leave the country for a year till i get a replacement with N565? I understand from this forum that it's illegal to enter the US with a foreign passport.

I think i'll take the one day passport service not to take a chance of putting my life on hold for a year :D
Click to expand...

Yes, unfortunately that would be the case. Better apply for passport book and passport card. In case one of them get lost you can use the other one to obtain the lost passport (book or card). Then you only need to worry for the case that they lose your passport card or book and then the certificate of naturalization in a row. Highly unlikely but not impossible ;) I guess in a real emergency you might be able to get away by traveling on the other nationality passport, but imagine the situation if they don't get you enter the country. Would you then identify yourself as a US citizen. You would have to do a lot of explaining at the border ;)
 
JACKKmon said:
So the woman said that the passport doesn't prove citizenship
Click to expand...

The woman at the consulate/embassy is seriously misinformed. The passport proves citizenship as much as the natz certificate, as it's ONLY issued to citizens. The only difference is that the natz certificate has lifetime validity, whereas the passport has a 10 year validity.
 
The question becomes what nationality was the officer trying to establish? Form what Jackkmon is saying, the Canadian officer at the Canadian consulate in NYC stated that the passport wasn't proof of citizenship. Was the officer requiring proof of your Canadian citizenship? If so, a US passport wouldn't be proof of your Canadian citizenship.

Jackmon, is this the form you filled out?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0006E.pdf
 
Upon rereading the Jackkmon's original post, I see where it gets a bit confusing. The OP, who resides in the U.S., applied for a Canadian equivalent of N-600 for his children. Since the Canadian consular representative asked the OP to provide proof of his and his wife's status in the U.S., he provided his wife's passport (U.S. passport, I assume). It's possible that, in Canada, a Canadian passport is not an acceptable proof of citizenship; therefore, the consular rep assummed that the same goes for America.
 
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