Feliz-LA n-400 denied, minimum length of residence not met

Feliz-LA

Registered Users (C)
Interview went generally well as an experience, I will describe it below, as it was different, but the officer - M. Jordan - white blond lady in her 40s - said that I will be most likely denied after review :( :( :( , due to lacking 20 days to make it to minimum US residence, even though it says one can apply 90 days before full eligibility, denial reason sounds very bureaucratic, but "nobody's above the law", so basically I accepted it as a denial and now planning to apply in January, once I have enough days in US in total.

Interview was for 12.30, me and my husband arrived at 11.30, parked at LA Mall across the street (about $14.00 cash only), had a lunch and were at the building main door at 12.00, security took about 5 min, and we started to search for room 2050, which is second floor (not 5, 6 or 8 like people described before)

so we found elevator, went on 2nd floor and walked around for about 10 min just looking for 2050, but later on when we took stairs down - it took us right down to main entrance hall and cafeteria.

in room 2050 - looks just like infopass or embassy room, with about 8 windows, walls between waiting room and windows don't reach ceiling and reveal that there is apparently space in the back where they take you,

security guard had a sign on his table something like "please verify your appointment here"

I gave him my letter and he told me to put it in the first window and have a seat, there were about 40 chairs in waiting room in 4 rows and about 20 people, out of them half were probably family and friends.

at about 12.40 officers started appearing (possibly after lunch break) behind windows and started calling the names, but people called would return back to seats, so I wasn't sure what's going on until my turn.

my name was called at about 1.40 and a young fast talking asian looking officer asked for my GC, DL and passport, went back and made copies, then he gave me written and reading test, I had to sign bottom of each paper.

then he started civics, and luckily I studied both versions, so I answered 8 out of 10, last 2 I knew I could answer, but was kinda nervous standing there by the window with all the people behind, so I prefered to skip, just to get over with. He said I passed and told me to take a seat.

I guess after people passed civics they were taken to the back part through 2 side doors on both sides of long row of windows.

after about 20 more minutes more wait around 2.00, my name was called by a white blond lady about 45 yo, she took me literally 5 steps in to her cubicle, which actually was nicer then a dark torture dungeon I imagined, it had a huge window, or it was a window wall, and it had nice view outside and lots of indirect light.

She offered me a seat and I saw a thick folder on her desk with probably all document I ever sent to USCIS starting with my visa.

After "truth oath" she began with weird question if I ever went to school in US, I kinda got startles at first, trying to figure out where that came from and how it will affect my application, I said no and told her what happened, that I went for PhD abroad and to visit my mom, I wonder if it was a trick to make me slip or to make me lie??

she went on directly to the fact that I was too long abroad, and said she didn't have this issue with anybody for a while before today, there was lady right before me.

I felt soo down that I didn't care anymore for the rest of interview really, I didn't use any of my carefully prepared document, I though she decided already and there is nothing I can really do about it.

Then we started to look into travel part of my application and she made it to look like that whatever number of days I put in there they would use it, and she told me to multiply 365 by number of years (in my case 3) then devide it by 2 (cuz 50% of time is required minimum of in US, and maximum of stay out) and that number was 20 days more then my total trips at the moment of application :(

I asked about "one can apply 90 days before eligibility" rule, she said it doesnt apply to this requirement.

and she asked do I want my denial letter now or mailed :eek:

I asked is there a possibility to review my case, she basically gave me piece of paper saying :

"Dear applicant
your application has been continued for folowing reason:
and a marked box"No further action required on your part at this time, Upon receipt of below checked boxes your application will be further acted upon:

the a box marked : "Other" then in red pen she written" I will look over your application, it appears deniable, you spent more then 1/2 time out of US"

If you have not received a response after 120 days from date of this notice, you may mail and inquiry to address..."

I guess after I refused to take a denial letter, she decided to finish the interview and go over the rest of question, for some reason after my address change and receiving IL at new address, they still didn't have it updated.

also my name on file was a long combination of my maiden name + my current name, while greencard only has my new name.

I was going to change my name, and she said she will try to proceed with that, but I don't remember details. I didn't really care.

I think she kinda felt that I am extremely disapointed even though I behaved polite and tried not to show much anger, it was my fault after all and law is on their side.

she said that if I feel there is error in calculation of the days I may go back to waiting room while she makes copies and recalculate all over :confused:

I did go back, but I didn't add those calculations manually, I used "timeanddate.com" and cheched it many times, so there was no chance for mistake,

so I used the time off to think about "what If I edit this days for -10 days each", I mean it's all horrible bureaucracy after all, what difference does it make for USCIS, if I get approved now or 5 months later, and "may be it will work out fine today, since she didn't seem like recalculating herself".

But then I remembered those weird questions that could possibly mean to check my reaction in case I lied, or divert my attention and make me slip. What if this was one of them?

So I decided to not risk committing crime of "lying under oath" (especially when truth is easily discoverable) over 5-6 more months of wait, and when she called me again to give me originals of my documents, I asked would it help if difference was 1 day not 20, she said no, it has to be exactly required amount of days, so I said I don't have anything else to edit in my application. SO she wished me good luck and I left :(

I guess I will wait for final decision in the mail :(
 
What are your details? When did you become a permanent resident? How many days outside the US did you have at the time of applying?

I think you are confusing physical presence with continuous residence. You can apply 90 days before having 5 years of residence, but you still need to have the full 30 months of physical presence when you apply.
 
Sounds like this has nothing to do with the "90 day" early application, and everything do do with Physical Presence requirement. For a 3yr (marriage based) application, you need a minimum of 540 days physical presence prior to submitting your N-400. On a 5yr application, you'd need 900 days.
 
then he started civics, and luckily I studied both versions, so I answered 8 out of 10, last 2 I knew I could answer, but was kinda nervous standing there by the window with all the people behind, so I prefered to skip, just to get over with. He said I passed and told me to take a seat.

Feliz-LA: Sorry to hear what happened in your case, but before you reapply, please make sure you satisfy the presence requirements: both physical and continuous. From what you have described, it appears that your physical presence was the issue here, however, since you were a PhD student abroad, it is also likely that you spent months on end outside the US. Do carefully write down the dates of your arrival/departure into/from the US over the preceding 5 years before you reapply and confirm that you satisfy both conditions before sending off the N-400. Good luck, and I hope you get naturalized soon!

As to your comment that you luckily studied both versions of the civics test, do you mean to say that you encountered questions from both versions of the test?
 
Sounds like this has nothing to do with the "90 day" early application, and everything do do with Physical Presence requirement. For a 3yr (marriage based) application, you need a minimum of 540 days physical presence prior to submitting your N-400. On a 5yr application, you'd need 900 days.

My guess would be IO did/didn't count travel dates (tricky one), or maybe IO counted from the day N-400 was mailed and not NOA?

Feliz, care to put your travel dates for Nov 30, 2004 - Nov 30, 2007 here, so we can put our collaborative math power trying to help you out?
 
No person, except as otherwise provided in this title, shall be naturalized, unless such applicant, (1) immediately preceding the date of filing his application for naturalization has resided continuously, after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence, within the United States for at least five years and during the five years immediately preceding the date of filing his application has been physically present therein for periods totaling at least half of that time, and who has resided within the State or within the district of the Service in the United States in which the applicant filed the application for at least three months,
 
Feliz, so sorry to hear the bad news. I am still a little confused by what happened though. I filed in Jan, though I could have filed in Dec since my three years as a LPR were up in March. Are you saying they will count my days in country from 3/15/2005 till 1/14/2008 instead of 3/15/2008? Doesn't sound right or fair at all. When are you eligible to file again?
 
I see so the 90 day rule only waives the continuous residence rule but you still have to have met the 50% physical presence on the date of application. Had she waited, 20 days, she'd have been fine? Wow. If she was stuck in namecheck she may want to refile right away so that they don't have to redo it - if it's within 120 days of last check, they won't redo it I think.
 
The trick is....you are eligble to apply 90 days before the completion of your 5 years (or 3 years in case of marriage based), provded you meet all the requirements on the day when you apply.
For example ... a person gets married to a citizen, applies for the Green Card...and gets green card 30 days after marriage. 3 years of marriage should be completed before you can apply....so this person can only apply 30 days before the completion of 3 years...not 90 days like other people.
Similarly the 50% residency should have been completed on the date you apply.

Calculate your travel days again, and remember....on the days you travel...partial days in the US count as full day in the country. So if you had 10 trips...and you counted partial days as out of the country...you might get 20 days back and you might be able the file a Motioin to reopen...and fight the denial...else you will have to apply again.
 
So if she met the requirements 90 days after filing, what's the problem? Or is that even after 90 days from filing she did not meet the CR requirements?
The physical presence requirement has to be met at the time of filing.
 
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i see chenwu/chowhound likes to come back here, well i guess we will have to wait till he gets banned by IP


anyways, thanks everybody for support, i will wait for official letter and will think what to do after.

I think if i didnt honestly put my dates of travel myself in the initial app., that woudnt be an issue at all at the time of interview.

but if they got discovered later that would be big prroblem.

as to 90 days rule and exception, as many times here it was said people get naturalized with all kinds of issues, like DUI, spouse abuse arrest etc., its all up to officers knowlege/experience/mood/attitude/workload to decide what's important and what is not.


Good luck everybody!

PS: I will delete my timeline from signature, so i will save it here

N400 at California SC, District office- Los Angeles
Oct 30, 2007 - Priority date, Nov 9 - check cashed (number 2 08 10XX on the check matched my case number WSC*002 08 10XX )
Nov 30 - NOA1: "expect to be notified "within 425 days of this notice", Dec 26 - fingerprints letter
Jan 18, 2008 - fingerprints done
Jul 15, 2008 - Interview letter issued
Sep 15, 2008 - Interview date - denied

online status "case received Nov 7", last touch Dec 4 - and hasn't change ever since (up to today - March 3, 2009)
 
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The physical presence requirement is a hard and fast rule; they aren't allowed to use discretion for that. Yes there are exceptions in the case of military service and N-470, but even those aren't discretionary ... either you were in the military or not. Or you have an approved N-470 or not.
 
i see chenwu/chowhound likes to come back here, well i guess we will have to wait till he gets banned by IP


anyways, thanks everybody for support, i will wait for official letter and will think what to do after.

I think if i didnt honestly put my dates of travel myself in the initial app., that woudnt be an issue at all at the time of interview.

but if they got discovered later that would be big prroblem.

as to 90 days rule and exception, as many times here it was said people get naturalized with all kinds of issues, like DUI, spouse abuse arrest etc., its all up to officers knowlege/experience/mood/attitude/workload to decide what's important and what is not.


Good luck everybody!

Like others said, this is not a discretionary good moral character issue. And you DO NOT want them to naturalize when you were not eligible simply b/c the officer was inexperienced (at least not when you are going to be eligible in 30 days). You would then have to worry about this - and why? I remember somebody who claimed he got a GC which was inadvertenly back dated and was going to apply "early" to get natz 1 year earlier. The only thing that happened was that he got rejected at the interview (and that's a good thing for him).
 
Ok folks, lets keep this thread on-topic and civilized please. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
 
i see chenwu/chowhound likes to come back here, well i guess we will have to wait till he gets banned by IP


anyways, thanks everybody for support, i will wait for official letter and will think what to do after.

I think if i didnt honestly put my dates of travel myself in the initial app., that woudnt be an issue at all at the time of interview.

but if they got discovered later that would be big prroblem.

as to 90 days rule and exception, as many times here it was said people get naturalized with all kinds of issues, like DUI, spouse abuse arrest etc., its all up to officers knowlege/experience/mood/attitude/workload to decide what's important and what is not.


Good luck everybody!

PS: I will delete my timeline from signature, so i will save it here

N400 at California SC, District office- Los Angeles
Oct 30, 2007 - Priority date, Nov 9 - check cashed (number 2 08 10XX on the check matched my case number WSC*002 08 10XX )
Nov 30 - NOA1: "expect to be notified "within 425 days of this notice", Dec 26 - fingerprints letter
Jan 18, 2008 - fingerprints done
Jul 15, 2008 - Interview letter issued
Sep 15, 2008 - Interview date - denied

online status "case received Nov 7", last touch Dec 4 - and hasn't change ever since (up to today - March 3, 2009)

I am deleting details from my signature, so I will add them here as a HAPPY END

Los Angeles DO
01/30/09 - PD for Second N400,
02/04/09- NOA1,
02/21/09 - FD walk-in
03/16/09 - IL issued (rec'd 03/20/09)
05/12/09 - ID passed!!!
05/27/09 - called and got OD
06/01/09 - rec'd paper OL (issued on day of call 05/27)
06/26/09 - OD (LA Sports Arena) - I am a US Citizen :D!!!
total = 147 days or 4 months, 27 days. = almost 5 months
 
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