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Eligibility Country - Birth vs. Nationality - DV-2011

So, as long as you prove the Turkish authority, which issued your birth certificate, is an official custodian of birth records in Switzerland, you are fine. I hope, you have a very strong proof of that fact. That could be Swiss Konstitution or any oter Swiss law, proving this.

That makes sense. I actually wasn't very clear. I have a birth certificate from Switzerland saying I was born in Switzerland and the Turkish authorities use that certificate to insert place of birth in my Turkish Passport, which is Switzerland.

So, since I have both those documents, I will claim Switzerland, which should have a much lower DV application rate than say Turkey...
 
If i have lost the birth certificate for the country i was born in and i am claiming dv eligibility based on that country and I live in another country, what can I do to prove my eligibility. Since I was a baby when my family moved from the country and i have gone through the family records and cannot find my birth certificate or any other records, how can I prove i was born there. I do have passports going back decades that all show where I was born, what other docs or procedure would I need to do..try to find out and contact the hospital to get a bc from 30 years ago or involve that country's embassy? Thanks for any help.
You can order another copy of BC from your birth country.

"A strong point" for this thread, for Switzerland-Turkey, but not for my case a year ago. Unlike Russia and Ukraine, these two countries have nothing in common.
Russia and Ukraine also had separate family laws and separate jurisdictions at that point. The same as states within US.

Not at all. But if you put these "separate" laws side by side, you'll see for sure that in most cases the only difference is the name of a republic. (I am not saying that everything was identical though.)
They looked similar in totalitarian society. But they were legally independent. Their similarity was just a coincidence from legal standpoint.

I respectfully understand that you defend your belief, however it is not enough for accusing an IO in overlooking a mistakes and granting a visa to somebody who is not eligible. Instructions for I-485 state that BC has to comply with CFR 103.2(b)(2) - a Code of Federal Regulations, which you probably heard of. Title 8 of this Code, 103.2(b)(2), makes it very clear:
You are forgetting the first part of this law, stating that in addition to secondary evidence you have to prove primary evidence does not exist and could not be issued. Primary evidence would be a Ukrainian-issued BC in your case, what you even never attempted to request. Without your request for primary evidence, and motivated written denial, secondary evidence cannot work on it's own.
 
Primary evidence would be a Ukrainian-issued BC in your case, what you even never attempted to request. Without your request for primary evidence, and motivated written denial, secondary evidence cannot work on it's own.
No, my primary evidence is not a Ukranian-issued BC. It is a Russian-issued BC with Ukraine as a birthplace. (You keep ignoring the Instruction which I have mentioned a few times here, and posted it in Russian on another forum.) I requested this BC in Russia, and I have three court rulings with a denial. That is why my secondary evidence worked for USCIS.
 
Russian issued BC is your secondary evidence, and that is the purpose why you quoted the law
(2) Submitting secondary evidence and affidavits
Secondary evidence could be accepted when primary evidence does not exist and is unobtainable and you can prove that. There is no way to prove it is unobtainable if you never tried to request it.
Primary evidence is the birth certificate, with it's definition as defined above (official custodian). For you that would be Ukrainian-issed BC.

@ raevsky - can you be more specific? how can i get it..through the embassy? thanks! :)
Your hope is a consular mistake, I guess. That worked that way with masematn last year, via AOS. Otherwise you need to prove the primary evidence is unobtainable, or obtain it.
That means you request your BC from the authorities of the country you were born in. You might need to get hospital papers before to show it to the authorities to have BC issued.
 
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Russian issued BC is your secondary evidence
Years of teaching on American campus learned me that you need to say anything at least five times in order to be heard. So I"ll say it again: my original Russian BC is a primary evidence. It was issued not in the city of birth, but in the same country of birth. Also, it was issued according to the current law of that time.

Primary evidence is the birth certificate, with it's definition as defined above (official custodian). For you that would be Ukrainian-issued BC.
For me that would be a Russian BC with Ukraine as a birthplace, issued by the same authority that had issued the original BC. Can you point to the requirements for BC (with official custodian) published anywhere by USCIS, and not Department of State?


Your hope is a consular mistake, I guess. That worked that way with masematn last year, via AOS.
Keeping insisting that I received a GC by mistake (just as you insisted earlier that my BC was a mistake) you may mislead other people in a similar situation. Let us both remind other readers of this thread that nothing here should be taken for granted.
 
Years of teaching on American campus learned me that you need to say anything at least five times in order to be heard. So I"ll say it again: my original Russian BC is a primary evidence.

Well, even if you say halva 10 times, you will probably still not feel sweet in your mouth. At least it is like that for me.

So, even if you repeat "primary evidence" 10 time, secondary evidence will not become primary evidence. Russian authorities have not been official custodian of birth recordings in Ukraine under the USSR.

BTW, I had an impression you did not make posts in Shabat. Obviously, I was wrong.

Keeping insisting that I received a GC by mistake (just as you insisted earlier that my BC was a mistake) you may mislead other people in a similar situation
I would think I am not misleading them.
 
Well, even if you say halva 10 times, you will probably still not feel sweet in your mouth.
How about "call somebody hundred times 'a pig' and he will start grunting as a pig?"

even if you repeat "primary evidence" 10 time, secondary evidence will not become primary evidence.
The same is applicable to you: primary evidence will not become secondary evidence.

Russian authorities have not been official custodian of birth recordings in Ukraine under the USSR.
Raevsky, you are hopeless. Why are you using only that part of the definition that fits into your scheme? Doesn't it say "official custodian of birth records in the country of birth?" And you know just as well as I do that neither Russia nor Ukraine were countries at the time of my birth while USSR was a country, don't you?

BTW, I had an impression you did not make posts in Shabat. Obviously, I was wrong.
You are right and wrong at the same time. But this issue is not for discussion with a stranger at an immigration forum.
 
How about "call somebody hundred times 'a pig' and he will start grunting as a pig?"
Persons are different, they behave. Evidences do not.

official custodian of birth records in the country of birth
It is obvious they mean the current countries, not the country at the time of your birth.
Ukrainian SSR authorities are an official custodian of records of birth in today's Ukraine produced during USSR times. RSFSR authorities are not an official custodian of records of birth in today's Ukraine produced during USSR times.
You are right and wrong at the same time
Nice. Fuzzy logic. I like that.
 
oh my god!!!!

hey you guys. I read all this and i am starting to panic, my case number is
2010EU00005xxx and i was born in Russia but i am from africa.
when i was born my parents went to our embassy and declared my birth since then i have a birth certificate that was issued by the government of my country.when i turned 18 I went tu study in France and my bachelor degree and in all of my documents (passport) of course the place of birth is Moscow.
Now when i read what is written in the above link of travel state.gov i saw that is cleary stated that "the birth certificate has to be issued by the government of birth." My interview is most probably in December and i have all my documents ready.
What to do? Should i contact the Russian embassy in my country maybe they can give me a document that says that my birth certificate is not available. And i can use the birth certificate issued in my country as a secondary evidence. I just want to add that my country of eligibility is of course Russia an i am african. my case number is european but even if it wasn't russia i could have used my husband nationality (france) to have a european number. You see my point?
Anyways what to do. Maybe the counselor won't ask me all this but i prefer to be on the safe side.
please tell me what to do when i told this to my parents they told that it has always been the procedure when i child is born abroad all you have to do is declare him at the embassy and the embassy gives you a birth certificate.
What do you think guys?do you think i will have problems?
 
i have a birth certificate that was issued by the government of my country
As long as your birth certificate is issued by the consulate of your country of citizenship in Moscow, you are fine. So, the BC needs to have the seal of the consulate of your country in Moscow. You might need to prove you were a citizen of your country at the moment of your birth.
Then the consulate is in fact an official custodian for your bith.
 
I WAS BORN IN A RUSSIAN HOSPITAL IN MOSCOW IT IS CALLED
"THE ALL UNION SIENTIFIC RESEARCH
INSTITUTE OF MATERNITY AND CHILD PROTECTION ELANSKOGO STR.2"(i don't knowif it still know if it exists.
I have a photocopy written in Russian and translated in english that says that my mom(GIVES HER FULL NAME) gave birth to a child (FEMALE)on the XX/XX/19XX; (my parents don't know where the original is maybe the embassy kept it i must admit they were kind of careless about all this...)
At the time my parents went to this document to our embassy who gave me a birth certificate but they mention my full name in this one.
The certificate the hospital gave me had to be produced to the registry office .But my dad had to leave the country before they finished the procedure.(i forgot to mention that my dad was a counselor in our embassy and he had problems with the ambassador so he was told to leave urgently and go back to our country.)
I told my dad to go the russian embassy in our country with this certificate to either get a birth certificate (i doubt they will give him something 28 years later +with a simple photocopy) or a certificate of non-avalaibility just to be on the safe side.

He said ok, what do you think? I just want to add that i a married with a french citizen an i am going to have my french citizenchip in a year. They always accepted my birth certificate established my the governement of our country and believe me french people are really rigid, not flexible, complicated and if they could give me hard time or had a doubt about all this they would have a long time ago. I also want to say that my husband and i have everything ready, sponsor,banc account i have a bachelor degree always worked i mean we are good people with a decent life. Won't they take all this into account????
 
If your dad was a diplomat, no doubts your birth certificate was issued by the consulate of your country. You are fine.
 
I WAS BORN IN A RUSSIAN HOSPITAL IN MOSCOW
Since you were born in Russia, your country of eligibility is no doubt Russia. Based on my own experience, I can tell that you should not have any problems with USCIS, that means, if you decide to adjust your status in America. It is your place of birth that is significant for USCIS, not the form of its record. If you do CP, you are probably OK as well, because your parents' embassy has an authority to issue birth certificates for the children of its citizens no matter where they are born. Good luck!
 
hzyq you guys

Hey you guys. Thanks a lot. I hope everything will be ok. I will keep you informed.
like i said i told my parents to go to the russian embassy in our country and see what they can do with the hospital's certificate just in case... we have nothing to loose and i also told my dad to send me a document that proves that he was a counselor at the time of my birth. better be safe than sorry that is my philosophy.
Last time i called kcc they told me to call on the 15th of this month so my interview will probably be end of november, begining of december.

thanks again!!!
 
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