Don't expect anything from the current administration.

[kae_jolie]

Don't expect anything from the current administration. They are in over their heads in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuala, North Korea etc... It's basically a foreign policy administration. Their main concern is America's world image, not America's domestic image. Reminds me of someone who was so concerned with his outside image and how his buddies perceive him to the point that he neglected his own family and how they perceive him. It happens and this administration is a proof of that. The Bush administration is turning a deaf ear to its family and trying to flex America's muscles for the whole world to see. They are only catering to their egos. They have no time to take care of the poor, the needy, the environment, alternative fuel, disasters like Katrina , etc.

Also, unfortunately the current democratic congress has no time for these things because they are trying as much as possible to control the current damage done by this administration and stop any future damage, as well.

So, be realistic and just hang on at least for the next couple of years until they are out of office or pack up and go home if you can't bear the wait.

 

[nyc8300]

At a time when companies are setting up their offices outside the US, we are trying desperately to become citizens. Are we going down the wrong path here?....
I guess it is great if you don't much and are a net benefit getter. Does not make sense for people who are earning a decent pay.
The best deal is still being illegal....

Don't expect anything from the current administration. They are in over their heads in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuala, North Korea etc... It's basically a foreign policy administration. Their main concern is America's world image, not America's domestic image. Reminds me of someone who was so concerned with his outside image and how his buddies perceive him to the point that he neglected his own family and how they perceive him. It happens and this administration is a proof of that. The Bush administration is turning a deaf ear to its family and trying to flex America's muscles for the whole world to see. They are only catering to their egos. They have no time to take care of the poor, the needy, the environment, alternative fuel, disasters like Katrina , etc.

Also, unfortunately the current democratic congress has no time for these things because they are trying as much as possible to control the current damage done by this administration and stop any future damage, as well.

So, be realistic and just hang on at least for the next couple of years until they are out of office or pack up and go home if you can't bear the wait.

 

[kae_jolie]

I think we are going down the wrong path. Most of the immigrants here are in the States since the 90's on student visas or whatever when America had some of its lost glitz and glamour. Unfortunately, we are still clinging to the good ol' America that is slowly but surely declining. We have hope that once we get our Green cards, our current negative perception of America will go away. But that's what they call "Living in denial". All it takes is one bad administration to set the country 10 or 20 years back or at least slow its growth and development and have people flocking to move the heck out.
Honestly, I am starting to come to grips with the fact that maybe America is not the place to raise a family and make a living. It's no longer the America I knew in the 90's.

 

[desi3933]

Frustration clouds the judgment

At a time when companies are setting up their offices outside the US, we are trying desperately to become citizens. Are we going down the wrong path here?....
I guess it is great if you don't much and are a net benefit getter. Does not make sense for people who are earning a decent pay.
The best deal is still being illegal....

Just speak for yourself. I am glad to be here and I believe that I am on right path.

Frustration clouds the judgment.

 

[techy2468]

i hope these guys are not kidding.......

can anyone tell me a alternate country as good as america....where i can find a job....and live freely.....

i guess people just dont get it....and they never will.....

reason we are in this mess:
too many people like was desperately want to make america their home....because we do not have a good alternative....hence america does not care......because it will get people like us anyways....

 

[CoolTiger]

True BUT

Has everyone lost their minds?

US population keeps growing (just passed 300 million mark); foreign stuents keep coming; visitors keep coming; temporary non immigrant workers keep coming; everyone keeps coming and still want to come; no matter what the immigration policies are.

I do not see anyone leaving; it is all empty talk

Why does everyone think the country/economy is going to fall apart if they don't increase the visas by 150,000 or so per year.

People who are professionals should have a little better way of thinking of how the world turns then some of the recent postings.

True but the number of students and visitors is increasing at a much smaller rate than it used to Pre 9/11. In fact right now lots of studies are underway to study the slowing tourism industry of US. And the immigration mess is partly to blame.
While one has to be out of one's mind to imagin that visa limitaion will make the US economy fall apart, I'm disappointed to see someone like you make a statement "I do not see anyone leaving". You should know better than generalising.
I personally know a lot of people who have left in part due to the current immigration mess.
And while the impact may be minimal, it will be there and will only grow with time if this mess is not fixed.
As for alternatives its totally personal and varies from individual to individual.

Cheers

 

[GotPR?]

True but the number of students and visitors is increasing at a much smaller rate than it used to Pre 9/11. In fact right now lots of studies are underway to study the slowing tourism industry of US. And the immigration mess is partly to blame.
While one has to be out of one's mind to imagin that visa limitaion will make the US economy fall apart, I'm disappointed to see someone like you make a statement "I do not see anyone leaving". You should know better than generalising.
I personally know a lot of people who have left in part due to the current immigration mess.
And while the impact may be minimal, it will be there and will only grow with time if this mess is not fixed.
As for alternatives its totally personal and varies from individual to individual.

Cheers

Let's talk about the FACT rather than guess.
Here is the number of non-immigrant visa issued. I don't see any slow down. Number of visitor/student/temp worker who are comming is not that different from early booming time. It just got glitch for a few year after 2001 because of 9/11 and recession.

1992 5303513
1993 5293241
1994 5551583
1995 6134242
1996 6193941
1997 5904055
1998 5805795
1999 6192478
2000 7141636
2001 7588778
2002 5769437
2003 4881627
2004 5049083
2005 5388937
2006 5836718

 

[nyc8300]

I think there is no point in explaining how retrogession is affecting the country or legal immigrants.
If anybody needs a proof of contribution of specialized immigrants to the US, please direct him to see Bill Gates's testimony. There is nothing else you need to say at all.

If anybody has any doubts let him argue with Bill Gates.

True but the number of students and visitors is increasing at a much smaller rate than it used to Pre 9/11. In fact right now lots of studies are underway to study the slowing tourism industry of US. And the immigration mess is partly to blame.
While one has to be out of one's mind to imagin that visa limitaion will make the US economy fall apart, I'm disappointed to see someone like you make a statement "I do not see anyone leaving". You should know better than generalising.
I personally know a lot of people who have left in part due to the current immigration mess.
And while the impact may be minimal, it will be there and will only grow with time if this mess is not fixed.
As for alternatives its totally personal and varies from individual to individual.

Cheers

 

[CoolTiger]

Let's talk about the FACT rather than guess.
Here is the number of non-immigrant visa issued. I don't see any slow down. Number of visitor/student/temp worker who are comming is not that different from early booming time. It just got glitch for a few year after 2001 because of 9/11 and recession.

1992 5303513
1993 5293241
1994 5551583
1995 6134242
1996 6193941
1997 5904055
1998 5805795
1999 6192478
2000 7141636
2001 7588778
2002 5769437
2003 4881627
2004 5049083
2005 5388937
2006 5836718

So from 1992 to 2001 it GREW by 40%, whereas from 2001 to 2006 it DECREASED by 25%! You don't think +40 to -25 is a slowdown?
Check out CNN news archives, just a few weeks back there was an article about this.A lot of other leading journals had similar columns.
And I didn't contribute to any of them -
I don't mine or your's or anybody's opinion on this forum matters, in the long run these things play themselves out with brutal reality. That's life!
Don't forget that one of the biggest reasons which attracts people to USA from all over the World is a fair opportunity to grow your talent and potential. And the current situation is not helping that, if it's not fixed I don't know if it will affect USA in any way but it will certainly start taking its toll on aspirations and desires of people wanting to come here!

 

[GotPR?]

So from 1992 to 2001 it GREW by 40%, whereas from 2001 to 2006 it DECREASED by 25%! You don't think +40 to -25 is a slowdown?

How about 1992 to 2006 ?

Mid 90s to early 2000 is totallly different because of BIG BOOM. it was actually BUBBLE economy. We shouldn't look into that period as a standard since such a booming won't come unless there is big explosion of somthing.
The number matters. Just excluding that period, the visa issued now is the same as before boom. The US is not losing new people comming.

I don't mine or your's or anybody's opinion on this forum matters, in the long run these things play themselves out with brutal reality. That's life!

"Brutal reality" won't come from the messy US immigration. It is just a part of globalization.

 

[marlon2006]

Hold your head up. Mr. Bush is out there talking to Calderon (Mexico) and pushing amnesty and CIR. As far as administration goes, I think this one is the best chances to push this immigration bill through.

Now regarding Bill Gates, I am sorry to say, he tried hard and he did his best. However, he really messed up when he pushed for H1B. Everyone is smart enough these days that he doesn't focus on permanent greencard applicants, he pushes for H1B because that's how can get people to work harder than usual. Here:

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/5136

Don't expect anything from the current administration. They are in over their heads in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuala, North Korea etc... It's basically a foreign policy administration. Their main concern is America's world image, not America's domestic image. Reminds me of someone who was so concerned with his outside image and how his buddies perceive him to the point that he neglected his own family and how they perceive him. It happens and this administration is a proof of that. The Bush administration is turning a deaf ear to its family and trying to flex America's muscles for the whole world to see. They are only catering to their egos. They have no time to take care of the poor, the needy, the environment, alternative fuel, disasters like Katrina , etc.

Also, unfortunately the current democratic congress has no time for these things because they are trying as much as possible to control the current damage done by this administration and stop any future damage, as well.

So, be realistic and just hang on at least for the next couple of years until they are out of office or pack up and go home if you can't bear the wait.

 

[nyc8300]

It is so amazing to see all the daggers out for Bill Gates since he said that 'hypothetically' there should not be any limits on H-1b. He did say that there was a bill i.e. SKIL Bill that should ease the problem but the anti-immigrant lobby took the H-1b statement to their liking....
All his billions to charity and the good part of his testimony on education improvement seems worthless for the anti-legal immigrants.
Skilled legal immigrants need to discount any further talk on the 'validity' of legal immigrants and concentrate on how to get the bills passed.

Hold your head up. Mr. Bush is out there talking to Calderon (Mexico) and pushing amnesty and CIR. As far as administration goes, I think this one is the best chances to push this immigration bill through.

Now regarding Bill Gates, I am sorry to say, he tried hard and he did his best. However, he really messed up when he pushed for H1B. Everyone is smart enough these days that he doesn't focus on permanent greencard applicants, he pushes for H1B because that's how can get people to work harder than usual. Here:

http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/5136

 

[marlon2006]

That's true. Unfortuantely people did not buy what he said.

It is so amazing to see all the daggers out for Bill Gates since he said that 'hypothetically' there should not be any limits on H-1b. He did say that there was a bill i.e. SKIL Bill that should ease the problem but the anti-immigrant lobby took the H-1b statement to their liking....
All his billions to charity and the good part of his testimony on education improvement seems worthless for the anti-legal immigrants.
Skilled legal immigrants need to discount any further talk on the 'validity' of legal immigrants and concentrate on how to get the bills passed.

 

[Jackolantern]

The number of students coming to the US has been decreasing for some years, while other countries are increasing their foreign student numbers:
http://www.fkassociates.com/Combating Continued Drops in Foreign Student Enrollment.html
(although I remember seeing another report that there was a small increase just last year, slightly reversing the trend)

Looking at H1 numbers isn't an indicator of how many want to come here, because that is mostly determined by a changing quota.

People will still want to come here in large numbers, because there are so many who have very limited opportunities at home or elsewhere. So while the number of people trying to get to live in the US will not decrease, the quality will definitely decrease. The applicant pool will be increasingly made up of the most desperate people who have few other options, not the innovators and entrepeneurs who can immigrate to a choice of several countries or make good money in their own countries.

 

[CoolTiger]

The number of students coming to the US has been decreasing for some years, while other countries are increasing their foreign student numbers:
http://www.fkassociates.com/Combating Continued Drops in Foreign Student Enrollment.html
(although I remember seeing another report that there was a small increase just last year, slightly reversing the trend)

Looking at H1 numbers isn't an indicator of how many want to come here, because that is mostly determined by a changing quota.

People will still want to come here in large numbers, because there are so many who have very limited opportunities at home or elsewhere. So while the number of people trying to get to live in the US will not decrease, the quality will definitely decrease. The applicant pool will be increasingly made up of the most desperate people who have few other options, not the innovators and entrepeneurs who can immigrate to a choice of several countries or make good money in their own countries.

Beautifully said! I'll rest my case with Jackolantern's wise words!

 

[macjoubert]

On the same token the following can also be surmised, there were desperate people who came here even in years past, heck most of the immigrants to the US either this century or before were penniless, starved and uneducated,e.g. Irish, Germans, Italians. These people came here and made their mark.
The key difference between immigration of the past and that of today is that now its not culturally homogeneous. Germans, Irish, English and French who were racially similar were also culturally similar in that might have spoken different languages but their ideals (in religion , government and traditions) were similar and were able to assimilate both socially and physically in 1 generation, so much so that they were indistinguishable from the general American populations within a lifetime.

The same cant be said of the current immigration where the culture is very different from Americans, this is causing friction, resulting in loosening of the very laws that made quality of life so good in the first place.
e.g. The vast majority of recent Mexican immigrants wish to be instructed in Spanish thus loosening age old English only education. This will down the road cause polyglot education systems which is detrimental to the overall development of the US which heretofore was homogeneous for the most part.

My point is this, as the US becomes more and more PC and admits people who do not wish to assimilate (like the North African immigrants in France or Germany) the overall country culturally and socially steps backwards.
In other words the US is on its way to becoming a banana republic of gated communities where disparity of wealth is similar to the that of the emigrant countries right now.

 

[Jackolantern]

Desperate people have always been and will always be part of immigration. But decades ago the talented/non-desperate ones could also immigrate in a reasonable time frame. Back in the days of Ellis Island the typical wait was in hours, not years. Nowadays, those with other options will not want to enter a process that makes them stagnate for 10+ years.

In addition, in days of old the desperation was generally for different reasons, like religious or political persecution... not so much for pure economic reasons (although economics was no doubt a part of it) driven by their lack of opportunities elsewhere. People were giving up established jobs and businesses to come here, not merely fleeing their countries because they had nothing to lose there anyway.

 

[marlon2006]

I think I disagree with you. First, there were cultural clashes when Italians, Irish, etc came in the past. I think Spaniards are very similar in culture to Americans. They are Christians and family oriented people. That happened in inspite of their skin color. I think the main difference between immigration from the past and the present is ratio of the influx of people coming in and the mobility of people in our current times, what implies in less assimilation. For example, now we see Spanish signs all over the place and people speaking Spanish even in schools located as far as Seattle, WA (that is not during a Spanish class by the way). I doubt that happened to such magnitude in the past when Italians, Germans, etc immigrated here. Moreover, these days one can wire money back home very easily, and people do. One can also fly back and florth and keep ties to the home country. In the past, people who came here came to assimilate the culture and invest money here and that is it. I know that one can argue that in two generations American newborns assimilate the American culture even today. However, the 'dial 2 for Spanish' is all over the place to prove that there is an evident high influx of people. You are not going to believe, but most family oriented people I know who is from South America report that they want to move OUT of neighborhoods populated by their own fellow South Americans due to their dominance in certain cities. At least that is what they tell me.

On the same token the following can also be surmised, there were desperate people who came here even in years past, heck most of the immigrants to the US either this century or before were penniless, starved and uneducated,e.g. Irish, Germans, Italians. These people came here and made their mark.
The key difference between immigration of the past and that of today is that now its not culturally homogeneous. Germans, Irish, English and French who were racially similar were also culturally similar in that might have spoken different languages but their ideals (in religion , government and traditions) were similar and were able to assimilate both socially and physically in 1 generation, so much so that they were indistinguishable from the general American populations within a lifetime.

The same cant be said of the current immigration where the culture is very different from Americans, this is causing friction, resulting in loosening of the very laws that made quality of life so good in the first place.
e.g. The vast majority of recent Mexican immigrants wish to be instructed in Spanish thus loosening age old English only education. This will down the road cause polyglot education systems which is detrimental to the overall development of the US which heretofore was homogeneous for the most part.

My point is this, as the US becomes more and more PC and admits people who do not wish to assimilate (like the North African immigrants in France or Germany) the overall country culturally and socially steps backwards.
In other words the US is on its way to becoming a banana republic of gated communities where disparity of wealth is similar to the that of the emigrant countries right now.

 

[Jackolantern]

I think I disagree with you. First, there were cultural clashes when Italians, Irish, etc came in the past. I think Spaniards are very similar in culture to Americans. They are Christians and family oriented people. That happened in inspite of their skin color. I think the main difference between immigration from the past and the present is ratio of the influx of people coming in and the mobility of people in our current times, what implies in less assimilation. For example, now we see Spanish signs all over the place and people speaking Spanish even in schools located as far as Seattle, WA (that is not during a Spanish class by the way). I doubt that happened to such magnitude in the past when Italians, Germans, etc immigrated here. Moreover, these days one can wire money back home very easily, and people do. One can also fly back and florth and keep ties to the home country. In the past, people who came here came to assimilate the culture and invest money here and that is it. I know that one can argue that in two generations American newborns assimilate the American culture even today. However, the 'dial 2 for Spanish' is all over the place to prove that there is an evident high influx of people.

I think that is part of the reason why there is the 7% country quota. When immigrants are predominantly from one place, or are otherwise fundamentally similar, they can force changes on society that lots of Americans don't want, rather than assimilate. However, the bulk of legal Mexican immigrants come in through family categories not subject to the cap, and Cubans get almost automatic residence once they land here, so the 7% cap hasn't done much to diversify the overall set of immigrants.

 

[marlon2006]

Exactly. The real problem though is that those 7,000-10,000 people walking through the borders on daily basis don't pay attention to that quota. That's the problem. I think probably we hit one of the worst times to immigrate to the US. People are more and more fed up with immigrants and many times we are paying the price as well. I notice that in the air.

I think that is part of the reason why there is the 7% country quota. When immigrants are predominantly from one place, or are otherwise fundamentally similar, they can force changes on society that lots of Americans don't want, rather than assimilate. However, the bulk of legal Mexican immigrants come in through family categories not subject to the cap, and Cubans get almost automatic residence once they land here, so the 7% cap hasn't done much to diversify the overall set of immigrants.