Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
No. When in the US, they would have some form of diplomatic status tied to their parents' status. Their citizenship would be of the country(ies) of their parents.
does a foreign diplomat's baby have US citizenship?(conceived & born in NYC)
- Thread starter TwoScoops
- Start date
The birth certificate of a Children born in USA is not that really detailed. It mention father and mother's names but there are many
people with identical names. SO if such a child grow up to use his/her birth certificate to apply for a US passport, how does depart of state
really identify who is who?
Allparental information required on the form DS-11 are their name, date/places of birth, their citizenship. I am not sure that is enough
for DOS to check out if they are/were diplomats at the children's birth. Or that may be enough I don't see it can be efficiently checkedout
and I really doubt the depart of state has the mood to spend a lot of time checking it out
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Al Southner
Registered Users (C)
Guys,
Let us cut right through the confusion here: DoS has to recognize diplomatic rights and privileges sought by a foreign country's rep in the US. Once those are fully accepted and accreditted, DoS issues necessary documentation for the diplomatic corps of that particular country. I know many of you have seen license plates of diplomats, to an average person they all look similar. However, they couldn't be any different to people familiar with the ranking of the diplomatic corps, each license plate denotes the rank and position of each employee of the consulate. For anyone who you know working at the Embassy and driving their own cars with state license plate, no diplomatic privileges are extended to them. So, whenever they have a child, they are given US citizenship because they are NOT foreign representatives of those countries, plus police officer can visit them at their home if they want to search or investigate an issue. For high ranking diplomats with special red plates, no police officer can just show up there, DoS has to be notified and will have to sign off on it.
The law is clear on children born to foreign diplomats, no US citizenship is conferred to them because their parents are agents of a foreign government with own territory and housing lots. So, no foreign diplomat can claim US citizenship on behalf of their children because they know the law and in addition, there are no loopholes in the system to bypass the DoS on this issue. DoS has a fool proof system for this area, because once a child is born to a foreign diplomat they are required to register it with the DoS so that they can issue new credentials for the child, plus their own country of representation has to issue a new passport for the child, plus a diplomatic passport. If a diplomat has a newborn traveling with them and has a US passport, it will be subject to verification as to how they acquired one, this is irrelevant because the chances of a diplomat's child acquiring a US citizenship are zero. Remember that DoS issues all US passports, and the passport application requires parents of the child and nationality and whole lot of information, plus most diplomats know that it is against the law to try to do such a stupid thing.
For the UN and World Bank Group, etc the privileges which we enjoy from the DoS is limited to certain issues. You do have immunity from certain issues in the US, taxes, but we don't get any special license plates. We do have Lassez Passe for travel which affords you certain rights not made available to millions of people. If you commit a crime, you can be rest assured your butt is going to be nailed by a local police without any interference from DoS. Also, all your kids born in the US are automatically conferred US citizenship.
Let us cut right through the confusion here: DoS has to recognize diplomatic rights and privileges sought by a foreign country's rep in the US. Once those are fully accepted and accreditted, DoS issues necessary documentation for the diplomatic corps of that particular country. I know many of you have seen license plates of diplomats, to an average person they all look similar. However, they couldn't be any different to people familiar with the ranking of the diplomatic corps, each license plate denotes the rank and position of each employee of the consulate. For anyone who you know working at the Embassy and driving their own cars with state license plate, no diplomatic privileges are extended to them. So, whenever they have a child, they are given US citizenship because they are NOT foreign representatives of those countries, plus police officer can visit them at their home if they want to search or investigate an issue. For high ranking diplomats with special red plates, no police officer can just show up there, DoS has to be notified and will have to sign off on it.
The law is clear on children born to foreign diplomats, no US citizenship is conferred to them because their parents are agents of a foreign government with own territory and housing lots. So, no foreign diplomat can claim US citizenship on behalf of their children because they know the law and in addition, there are no loopholes in the system to bypass the DoS on this issue. DoS has a fool proof system for this area, because once a child is born to a foreign diplomat they are required to register it with the DoS so that they can issue new credentials for the child, plus their own country of representation has to issue a new passport for the child, plus a diplomatic passport. If a diplomat has a newborn traveling with them and has a US passport, it will be subject to verification as to how they acquired one, this is irrelevant because the chances of a diplomat's child acquiring a US citizenship are zero. Remember that DoS issues all US passports, and the passport application requires parents of the child and nationality and whole lot of information, plus most diplomats know that it is against the law to try to do such a stupid thing.
For the UN and World Bank Group, etc the privileges which we enjoy from the DoS is limited to certain issues. You do have immunity from certain issues in the US, taxes, but we don't get any special license plates. We do have Lassez Passe for travel which affords you certain rights not made available to millions of people. If you commit a crime, you can be rest assured your butt is going to be nailed by a local police without any interference from DoS. Also, all your kids born in the US are automatically conferred US citizenship.
What if a baby (parent ar enot USC) is born into a US consulate compound in another country?
Triple Citizen
Registered Users (C)
Consulates and Embassies are considered territories of the country in question, in this case US for example. However that does not neccessarily mean that all people present in those compounds at a given instance are under the jurisdiction of the United States. What if the Tunisian ambassador to France is visiting the US Embassy for the 4th of July reception. Would the Tunisian ambassador fall under the jurisdiction of the United States? I highly doubt it
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Here we are not talking about the diplomatic parents claiming US citizenship for their children; it's about the child, upon growing up, using the US birth certificate to pretend to be a US citizen. Once they get into the US with whatever visa, it wouldn't be hard to use the certificate to obtain employment.
But I agree that a US passport would be next to impossible to obtain based on that birth certificate. The birth would have been registered with the Department of State, and it would be easy to do a cross-check against the list of diplomatic births that occurred on the specified birthday. They will find a record that matches your name and location of birth and your parents' names. You would then have to provide additional evidence to prove that there were multiple births on that date matching all those details, and that yours was the non-diplomatic one.
Also, I expect the parents would follow procedures and not obtain or retain a US birth certificate in the first place. The birth certificate would be issued via their consulate, and the birth would be treated as if it occurred on the soil of the diplomatic parents' country. So unless the parents wanted to facilitate the future immigration fraud of their child, the child wouldn't have a US birth certificate with which to attempt anything.
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It really depend upon how DOS register babies biorn to diplomats. If they use texts like names for match, they will have a tough job.
Many of us working on database know how hard to match texts even terms are predefined terms. If some manual comparisoon
is needed, then DOS need to spend a lot of time/enegry.
It is also possible foreign diplomats do not, intentioally, or unintentially, register their children's birth with DOS
True Regular employee at a consulate is not a Diplomat he/she just works there and the above mentioned provision is not applicable in their cases ( that is the best of my knowledge)
Can permanet residents become an ordinary employees of their native country's embassy/consulate?
By the way, I don't buy into the old myth that a consulate or embassy is foreign soil. An embassy or consulate in the US is still US soil. It's just that the embassy and consulate are protected under certain international laws. I would think that if a woman (non-diplomat) gives birth to a child in the lawn of the Russian embassy that child will be a US citizen That's my take.
That's my take.Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
No, it would still be easy. It's not like there are 1000 diplomatic births every day in the US. The database of diplomatic births is not a large one. Search based on date of birth (including the year), and that narrows it down to maybe 10 or 20. Look for a matching last name within that DOB, and that would narrow it down to one or two. Then they can look at all the details of those two to see if it matches the provided birth certificate. If it matches, they can then reject the application or ask you for more information to prove that you are not the same person they see in the diplomatic records.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
cafeconleche
Registered Users (C)
Triple Citizen
Registered Users (C)
My father used to be an Ambassador for my native country(assignments included the UK, Germany and Switzerland). Having grown up in the "diplomatic" community, I know several people who were born in the US, while their parents were diplomats. Here's how it works:
If you hold a DIPLOMATIC PASSPORT from your native country, and your native country has assigned you to their US based Consulate or Embassy, your child or children born in the US during your assignment will NOT be given US Citizenship.That's the LAW.
If you are a LPR, holding a NORMAL PASSPORT from your native country, and you happened to be employed by your native county's Consulate or Embassy in the US, your child or children born in the US are AUTOMATICALLY US Citizens. That's also the LAW.
To WBH; yes, LPRs can be employees of their native country's embassies/consulates.
"That only a few (1%), under any circumstances, protest against the injustice of long-established laws and customs, does not disprove the fact of the oppressions, while the satisfaction of the many (99%), if real, only proves their apathy and deeper degradation". – Elizabeth Cady Stanton
**DISCLAIMER**
I am neither a lawyer nor an immigration consultant. My comments should NEVER be considered as legal or professional advice as they are not meant to be such.
Los Angeles time-line:
Sent N-400: 6/11/09
NOA: 7/14/09 (PD of 6/12/09)
FP Notice: 7/15/09
FP Date: 7/30/09
IL: 8/4/09
ID: 9/22/09 (Los Angeles DO) Passed! BUT....
"nasty" and "difficult" AO gave me N-652 stating
"A decision cannot yet be made about your application"
"Please follow the instructions on Form WR-822"
"USCIS will send you a written decision about your application"
AO gave me Form WR-822 requesting 1)Copy of 2007 tax return 2) Copies of all pages of passport 3)Documentary proof of financial support from family/others
AO suggested I hand deliver documents to his office, and said I should hear from them in a few weeks.
WR-822 and ALL requested documents HAND DELIVERED to AO's office on 9/25/09
On 11/11/2009, after previous numerous telephone inquiries, I was transferred to an IO, who said she would send an "expedite request" to the DAO that interviewed me
On 11/18/2009, received a "generic" "your case is in active review" letter
On 11/25/2009, spoke to another IO, who now said that the DAO who interviewed me was waiting for my A File, and it can take up to 1 year to receive an A File
Tired of waiting sent a 15 page passionate "complaint" letter on 11/25/2009(sent to everyone from The President down)
Received a letter on 12/10/2009 (dated 12/04/2009) inviting me to come in for an appointment on 12/14/2009 (at 9:30 a.m.) to “complete my N-400 naturalization application and affix my signature to my N-400 naturalization application. Signed by the Director of the Los Angeles DO and District Adjudication Officer (DAO) who interviewed me in September, 2009
Attended appointment on 12/14/2009 - APPROVED
OL: 12/19/2009
OD: 01/08/2010 - 8:00 a.m. sworn-in as a USC
PP/PC: applied - 01/08/2010
PP/PC: received - 01/20/2010
If you hold a DIPLOMATIC PASSPORT from your native country, and your native country has assigned you to their US based Consulate or Embassy, your child or children born in the US during your assignment will NOT be given US Citizenship.That's the LAW.
If you are a LPR, holding a NORMAL PASSPORT from your native country, and you happened to be employed by your native county's Consulate or Embassy in the US, your child or children born in the US are AUTOMATICALLY US Citizens. That's also the LAW.
To WBH; yes, LPRs can be employees of their native country's embassies/consulates.
"That only a few (1%), under any circumstances, protest against the injustice of long-established laws and customs, does not disprove the fact of the oppressions, while the satisfaction of the many (99%), if real, only proves their apathy and deeper degradation". – Elizabeth Cady Stanton
**DISCLAIMER**
I am neither a lawyer nor an immigration consultant. My comments should NEVER be considered as legal or professional advice as they are not meant to be such.
Los Angeles time-line:
Sent N-400: 6/11/09
NOA: 7/14/09 (PD of 6/12/09)
FP Notice: 7/15/09
FP Date: 7/30/09
IL: 8/4/09
ID: 9/22/09 (Los Angeles DO) Passed! BUT....
"nasty" and "difficult" AO gave me N-652 stating
"A decision cannot yet be made about your application"
"Please follow the instructions on Form WR-822"
"USCIS will send you a written decision about your application"
AO gave me Form WR-822 requesting 1)Copy of 2007 tax return 2) Copies of all pages of passport 3)Documentary proof of financial support from family/others
AO suggested I hand deliver documents to his office, and said I should hear from them in a few weeks.
WR-822 and ALL requested documents HAND DELIVERED to AO's office on 9/25/09
On 11/11/2009, after previous numerous telephone inquiries, I was transferred to an IO, who said she would send an "expedite request" to the DAO that interviewed me
On 11/18/2009, received a "generic" "your case is in active review" letter
On 11/25/2009, spoke to another IO, who now said that the DAO who interviewed me was waiting for my A File, and it can take up to 1 year to receive an A File
Tired of waiting sent a 15 page passionate "complaint" letter on 11/25/2009(sent to everyone from The President down)
Received a letter on 12/10/2009 (dated 12/04/2009) inviting me to come in for an appointment on 12/14/2009 (at 9:30 a.m.) to “complete my N-400 naturalization application and affix my signature to my N-400 naturalization application. Signed by the Director of the Los Angeles DO and District Adjudication Officer (DAO) who interviewed me in September, 2009
Attended appointment on 12/14/2009 - APPROVED
OL: 12/19/2009
OD: 01/08/2010 - 8:00 a.m. sworn-in as a USC
PP/PC: applied - 01/08/2010
PP/PC: received - 01/20/2010
We know this law. What we wonder is how this law is enforced. That is birth certificates doe snot tell parents are diplomats or not
so when such children grow up and use there birth certificate to apply for US passport. How would Depart of State know these
applicants were born to foreign diplomats.
Folks, we are still not answering the question. What is the legal status- immigration status of childs who was born to diplomat parent. I think we established that they can not claim USC and let us assume there are safeguars in DoS for passports and etc.
As a US born child, i assume, they can apply for USC ?
As a US born child, i assume, they can apply for USC ?
Al Southner
Registered Users (C)
No, they can't apply for US passport. Only US citizen can apply for a US passport, NOT US born person. I hope you notice the difference. The children born to diplomats are diplomats as well, because they are given the legal status of their parents. Let us not be technical here, they can't hold a diplomatic office, is is the classification I believe is A1 visa. Enforcement is NOT the concern of DoS, because all foreign diplomats are fully aware of their rights and privileges, so there no need to try to claim US citizenship. Also, let us face it, most diplomats are the who and who in their own countries, NOT someone who want to remain permanent with their children in the US. In addition, within the DoS, there are couple of units which are devoted to dealing with people on the diplomatic corps, which include the facilitation of issuance of SSN for diplomats, letters to obtain drivers licenses. Once you have a diplomatic imminuty from US laws, simple things such as obtaining a drivers license are regulated by DoS, and I know this because when I went to obtain my driver's license, the DoS issues numerous letters to DC DMV, and I went to a DMV which served diplomats and people working for UN and World Bank Group organization, not your regular dog-eat-dog DMV. Once you are at DMV, they assign someone to review and verify your credentials, because your visa is a different legal status than a student visa, and review DoS documentation, and issue the DL. Once you complete some of the application forms required for DL, they issue the DL and you are out of the place in a jiffy... Try doing that at a usual DMV with your own preparation without the might of DoS, this is what will happen to you...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/54637/family-guy-dmv
Also, the great thing about being part of the diplomatic corps is that even with the registration of tourist or other LPR at POE, FP and photographing, you are exempt from such harassment. Your passport and laissez passe helps with the harassment from POE officers...lol!!
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