Citizenship claim for son

Steve65 said:
Sorry if it's a dumb question, but what does getting a US passport for my son prove for him? basically just a good step towards filing N-600? Once again thanks for the help.
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For most purposes, a U.S. Passport will be accepted as proof of U.S. Citizenship and is required for most foreign travel. A passport expires and can be challenged, DOS can revoke it if it is issued in error on its own authority and in its own discretion. If it is a complex case, the Passport Agency can make one get a Certificate from USCIS first.

An N-600 resulting in a Certificate of Citizenship is primary evidence of citizenship and does not expire. It can only be revoked pursuant to a challenge in a U.S. federal court and the government bears a heavy burden of proof.
 
Just an update and possible question.

Finding records has been time consuming to make sure I have more then enough for son's case. I have all original report cards from 1st grade to 12th grade including pictures for most years. They show my student number,grade, date/year progressing and address of school with principal/superintendent signatures. Also have official social security statements for years after high school up until son was born. Only need 10 yrs/5yrs after 14 right now have alot more if all records are counted.

Lawyer seems to feel this is an open/shut case already. Just figured I would ask others to get more input.
 
Steve65 said:
Just an update and possible question.

Finding records has been time consuming to make sure I have more then enough for son's case. I have all original report cards from 1st grade to 12th grade including pictures for most years. They show my student number,grade, date/year progressing and address of school with principal/superintendent signatures. Also have official social security statements for years after high school up until son was born. Only need 10 yrs/5yrs after 14 right now have alot more if all records are counted.

Lawyer seems to feel this is an open/shut case already. Just figured I would ask others to get more input.
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Since you started this thread, USCIS changed to lockbox filing for N-600s. This will result in getting a receipt number that can be tracked in case status online.

Someone mistakenly stated that fingerprinting is required, it is not. The filing in the U.S. is required because under INA 341 the applicant has to take the same oath as a naturalization applicant before a USCIS Officer in the U.S. in order to get the certificate. Only military members and certain of their dependents may be given the Oath abroad.

If he is still abroad he can use the same documents that you have gathered in order to get his U.S. Passport first. The Consular Posts are better at this adjudication than the domestic Passport Agency and technically this adjudication for an passport based on an original citizenship claim for a foreign-born USC should not be allowed domestically (but it happens). Legally, only USCIS can do this via an N-600 filed domestically.

Best of luck to your son and hurry before the price goes up again.
 
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BigJoe5 said:
Since you started this thread, USCIS changed to lockbox filing for N-600s. This will result in getting a receipt number that can be tracked in case status online.

Someone mistakenly stated that fingerprinting is required, it is not. The filing in the U.S. is required because under INA 341 the applicant has to take the same oath as a naturalization applicant before a USCIS Officer in the U.S. in order to get the certificate. Only military members and certain of their dependents may be given the Oath abroad.

If he is still abroad he can use the same documents that you have gathered in order to get his U.S. Passport first. The Consular Posts are better at this adjudication than the domestic Passport Agency and technically this adjudication for an passport based on an original citizenship claim for a foreign-born USC should not be allowed domestically (but it happens). Legally, only USCIS can do this via an N-600 filed domestically.

Best of luck to your son and hurry before the price goes up again.
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Could you explain in bold more. Son will be filing in states. My main concern is how they see school records. No schools back then had computers, they either hand wrote documents or typed. So my concern was my original school records show school info,address. Also month/year grade etc. Superintendents signature at the time in that school district and principal signed. Also shows my name/grade/ student id number. Then the normal subject/grades.
My question is can these really be denied or is this what USCIS means when documents suggested school records/reports/transcripts?
 
Steve65 said:
Could you explain in bold more. Son will be filing in states. My main concern is how they see school records. No schools back then had computers, they either hand wrote documents or typed. So my concern was my original school records show school info,address. Also month/year grade etc. Superintendents signature at the time in that school district and principal signed. Also shows my name/grade/ student id number. Then the normal subject/grades.
My question is can these really be denied or is this what USCIS means when documents suggested school records/reports/transcripts?
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Since he will seek recognition of citizenship for the first time inside the U.S., he is better off filing the N-600 with USCIS first. They have many decades of experience and are simply better at digging through evidence of ALL SORTS. From what you have described, it will be a rather straight-forward case for USCIS and then he'll have solid primary evidence of citizenship (a brand new version of the Certificate of Citizenship, form N-560) to use as evidence for a passport. In addition, USCIS will assign him an A# and he will have a record in a government computer database that will help verify his status for many purposes (SSA, DMV, educational or social service agencies, and for employment).

The Passport Agency and their computer systems do not do all that stuff because far more people get passports than get A#'s from the immigration system. Even after a century, immigration records (A#s) are at around only one hundred million compared to over a century of passports, closer to a billion (or more if you count renewals).
 
Steve65 said:
Could you explain in bold more. Son will be filing in states. My main concern is how they see school records. No schools back then had computers, they either hand wrote documents or typed. So my concern was my original school records show school info,address. Also month/year grade etc. Superintendents signature at the time in that school district and principal signed. Also shows my name/grade/ student id number. Then the normal subject/grades.
My question is can these really be denied or is this what USCIS means when documents suggested school records/reports/transcripts?
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He should either apply for N-600 within the US, or a passport outside the US. In his circumstances, trying for a passport within the US before N-600 approval is likely to be problematic because of the lesser authority and expertise of passport agencies within the US.

They will accept the school records, with an adjustment for summer/winter breaks so they might count only 8 or 9 months per school year. But even with that adjustment you have more than enough.
 
He cannot file N-600, that form is for certificate of citizenship, and he is not eligible for one. He could get a consular report of birth from US consulate in canada (I do not know if there are any time limits for that), or he could apply for passport (no time limits).
 
raevsky said:
He cannot file N-600, that form is for certificate of citizenship, and he is not eligible for one. He could get a consular report of birth from US consulate in canada (I do not know if there are any time limits for that), or he could apply for passport (no time limits).
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You know naught of what you speak. As you point out the N-600 is an application for a certificate of citizenship and that is exactly what he seeks!

FYI...the consulate report of birth may only be obtained until the child reaches 18. This N-600 applicant is 27.
 
Yes, you are right. Certificate of citizenship is a non-exclusive option. And if consular report of birth has never been prepared, there is no way to prepare one now.
 
Jackolantern said:
He should either apply for N-600 within the US, or a passport outside the US. In his circumstances, trying for a passport within the US before N-600 approval is likely to be problematic because of the lesser authority and expertise of passport agencies within the US.

They will accept the school records, with an adjustment for summer/winter breaks so they might count only 8 or 9 months per school year. But even with that adjustment you have more than enough.
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Pretty much have all proof in order now. My question is when sending in documents I will send in my original birth certificate, marriage certificate and son's original long form birth certificate showing parents names.

I know originals for list above are needed when mailing but have been told different things about sending in originals of the supporting documents like School records. Was told that clear copies are fine for filing and that when son goes in for interview if needed you then bring in originals. These records/documents probably could never be found again if lost in mail. Thanks for all the help.
 
Steve65 said:
Pretty much have all proof in order now. My question is when sending in documents I will send in my original birth certificate, marriage certificate and son's original long form birth certificate showing parents names.

I know originals for list above are needed when mailing but have been told different things about sending in originals of the supporting documents like School records. Was told that clear copies are fine for filing and that when son goes in for interview if needed you then bring in originals. These records/documents probably could never be found again if lost in mail. Thanks for all the help.
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Are you talking about N-600? Or a passport application?

When sending an application to USCIS (such as an N-600 application), you should never send originals of any documents that are not easily replaceable. Copies are almost always sufficient, and, as a matter of standard procedure, USCIS never returns any originals to the document. It is not a matter of things possible getting lost in the mail, it is just that USCIS does not return the originals, period.

For a passport application, the originals do sometimes need to be submitted (such as a naturalization certificate, a consular report of birth abroad or something of the sort), and the State Department does return the originals of some (but certainly not all) documents to the applicant. However, even there, I would not mail them an original of any difficult to replace document, unless explicitly required to do so.
 
baikal3 said:
Are you talking about N-600? Or a passport application?

When sending an application to USCIS (such as an N-600 application), you should never send originals of any documents that are not easily replaceable. Copies are almost always sufficient, and, as a matter of standard procedure, USCIS never returns any originals to the document. It is not a matter of things possible getting lost in the mail, it is just that USCIS does not return the originals, period.

While the above may have been the norm for quite some time, it is NOT the proper legal procedure. USCIS only asks for copies up-front and the initial evidence is generally to be retained in the file. IF originals are requested they are to be returned. See 8 CFR 103.2(b)(5).

For a passport application, the originals do sometimes need to be submitted (such as a naturalization certificate, a consular report of birth abroad or something of the sort), and the State Department does return the originals of some (but certainly not all) documents to the applicant. However, even there, I would not mail them an original of any difficult to replace document, unless explicitly required to do so.

First time passport applications are submitted in person.
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Comments added in bold.
 
baikal3 said:
Are you talking about N-600? Or a passport application?

When sending an application to USCIS (such as an N-600 application), you should never send originals of any documents that are not easily replaceable. Copies are almost always sufficient, and, as a matter of standard procedure, USCIS never returns any originals to the document. It is not a matter of things possible getting lost in the mail, it is just that USCIS does not return the originals, period.

For a passport application, the originals do sometimes need to be submitted (such as a naturalization certificate, a consular report of birth abroad or something of the sort), and the State Department does return the originals of some (but certainly not all) documents to the applicant. However, even there, I would not mail them an original of any difficult to replace document, unless explicitly required to do so.
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My question was for N-600 route and gave me the answer I needed, thank you. I know the procedure for first-time passport. Son's leaning towards just filing the N-600 a little longer time frame but feels in long run will eliminate any possible headaches if something is lost.
 
BigJoe5 said:
Comments added in bold.
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Regarding the first time passport applications being submitted in person: that is, of course, correct. However, even in those cases they usually do require submitting some original document establishing U.S. citizenship (such as a naturalization certificate or a U.S. birth certificate), which gets returned to the applicant after the passport is issued. E.g. when a newly naturalized U.S. citizen applies for their first U.S. passport at a post office, the post office worker who accepts the passport application takes the original naturalization certificate from the applicant and forwards it with that application to the State Department facility that actually approves the application and produces a passport; the naturalization certificate is then mailed back to the applicant. That is true even for an in person application at a passport agency. In that case the applicant gets back the naturalization certificate when picking up the passport. I assume that there is a similar procedure used for natural born U.S. citizens who provide a U.S. birth certificate as a proof of citizenship.
Still, even when applying in person and even though the State Department does have a system for returning originals of (some) documents, I would not let them take an original unless absolutely necessary. In many cases, particularly with foreign issued documents (such as foreign passports, foreign birth certificates, foreign marriage/divorce documents etc), the originals may be very hard to replace and I would not always count on the officers issuing a passport knowing what to return and what to keep.
 
Steve65 said:
My question was for N-600 route and gave me the answer I needed, thank you. I know the procedure for first-time passport. Son's leaning towards just filing the N-600 a little longer time frame but feels in long run will eliminate any possible headaches if something is lost.
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If he's applying within the US, N-600 is clearly the better option due to what I mentioned in post #26. But if he's applying outside the US, the passport would be the ONLY option.
 
My question, is a lawyer really needed for my son with all proof already gathered and paperwork in order?

We went to a consultation very nice guy(FORMER US IMMIGRATION JUDGE), went over the laws at time, paperwork and said lawyer was not needed for my son's case that we could just file without one with paperwork in order. Said he could file for us at a fee for piece of mind.

Should my son take his advice or just pay for service fee. Seems to be leaning towards filing on his own. Thanks for all the help will keep all updated.
 
It's uncommon to use a lawyer for filing the N-600 without being denied first. He should go ahead and apply without the lawyer, then find a lawyer only if it gets denied or if they send a request for an onerous set of additional documents.
 
Jackolantern said:
It's uncommon to use a lawyer for filing the N-600 without being denied first. He should go ahead and apply without the lawyer, then find a lawyer only if it gets denied or if they send a request for an onerous set of additional documents.
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Thanks for answer, atleast reassures me that he's making correct choice.
 
Thanks again to all who helped in thread, filed about a month ago, received notice of action within a few days. Only thing confused on was how the form is forwarded after going to lockbox. Does it go to local office within residing state?
 
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