attorney fee dispute

genuine

Registered Users (C)
Not sure if this is the right forum to discuss this, but figured I will ask for opinions here any way.

I hired an attorney for my EB2 NIW back in September 2002, at which time I knew absolutely nothing about how this process worked. Signed a contract the first time I went to his office and paid half of his asking price upfront, with the other half payable upon approval of I-140. Did not negotiate the price hoping for a constructive working relationship. However, as it turned out, I was not happy with his service -- (1) he procrastinates and I can't find a way to get him moving on anything. I hired him in September 2002 (downpayment as well) and the case was filed in May 2003 after my repeated calls and emails; (2) he was not terribly helpful. He gave me couple of sample recommendation letters from prior cases that are totally unrelated to my field/education background and I was left on my own to figure out how I need to present my case; (3) I was under the impression that he was filing EB1 EA for me, and all my recommendation letters (which I drafted) angled toward EB1 EA with no mentioning of NIW whatsoever. I did not realize that the attorney actually filed EB2 NIW until I received the receipt notice from USCIS. I was very upset that the attorney did not point it out to me prior to filing, particularly he claimed that he reviewed all the recommendation letters I drafted and submitted to him. In addition, I question the suitability of NIW for me (I am an MBA, not a biochemist or anything remotely related NIW) (4) he did not mention to me the possibility of concurrent filing of I-485, which could have allowed me to travel (my H-1 stamp is only valid for single entry within 3 months period which is highly problematic for me for both work and leisure travel). It was not until late 2003 that I learned from this forum that I could actually file I-485 right away and solve this issue. I asked the attorney why he did not mention that to me and he said that was because I "did not ask about it" (5) unbeknownst to me, he withheld one of the recommendation letters and did not file it with the original recommendation. He said that was in anticipation of the RFE. He submitted 5 letters (which I thought was too few), leaving out the one from the group head of the company had I worked with in the past (and the only letter from someone I worked with directly). While I had serious doubt on whether this is a good tactic, I was upset that he did not discuss with me about this.

Any way, in 2004 I filed for EB1 EA separately away from this attorney as I realized that he may not be as strong as I had naively hoped. In 2005, when I had only months left on my 6-year H-1, I got RFE for the EB2 case, in which (not surprisingly) USCIS looked for more evidence for both the second and the third prong. The attorney did not bother to call me to tell me about the arrival of RFE. I had to find it out online and call him to ask for the RFE to be faxed to me. I called him to follow up and see what I needed to do. He was ambivalent, and asked for stuff that I clearly would not have in my profession. I worked on the reply myself and drafted all the additional recommendation letters and a brand new petition letter (the attorney said that the original one he drafted was 5-6 pages long, and he refused to show it to me or let me review it citing that it was a "private professional work product", which does not make any sense to me given the circumstances, but apparently there was nothing I could do about it according to him). I gave him all the new signed recommendation letters and my new cover letter (~30 pages plus 9 tabs of supporting materials) within 30 days of receiving the RFE. I repeatedly called him afterwards and begged him to process mine ASAP and not to wait till the last minute. He agreed, and claimed that he and his assistant were "reviewing my case". Of course, he filed the response one day before the stated 90 day deadline, using mostly my work and maybe one at most two pages of additional materials he wrote. Co-incidentally, my EB1 EA case was approved one day before EB2 RFE was received by USCIS.

Now USCIS sent a letter to the attorney that they would stall my EB2 case since my EB1 had been approved. Subsequently, the attorney demanded payment from me for service rendered. I told him that (1) his 140 has not been approved, and I am not obligated to pay based on the contract we have in place (2) I am not happy with his service, particularly the way he procrastinates and never cares about the client's (my) interests. He went bananas. He said that there is nothing wrong with procrastinating as long as he filed the RFE prior to the deadlline. I offered to split the difference (I will pay half of the remaining balance) and he hung up on me.

Wanted to get some opinions from you, my fellow friends, who may or may not have gone through the same frustration with attorneys, on whether I should pay (not just from contractual obligation point of view, but also morally). Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

(well, I guess I am also venting a bit. sorry about that)
 
It seems you are talking about Thomas Fan. He is as bad as this guy.
It is very hard to pay less since you did not sign a contract
regarding his duties in detail.
My suggestion is that pay him the rest since you already got
your EB1A approved. You can post your story and his name on the web.
If the story is true, he can do nothing to you.
 
NSC-NIW05, thanks for the reply. Do you mean I have to pay him even though he did not work on the approved I-140? Thanks
 
If it was denied, you do not have to pay him.
But the problem is USCIS stalled your petition due to an approved EB1A.
In this case, you may have to pay. According to the contract, there should
be sentences like" if the petitioner terminate, withdraw or cancel the petition, he/her should pay the rest half in full amount........"
Anyway, you can negotiate with him.
 
The gray area?

The gray area in the contract should be noted, we always fall in such hole for we may not be the professionals in the field.

I think you should talk to Co. that the Co. had not performed Co.'s duty, if it true, the Co. should something.
 
In my humble opinion you dont have to pay. You gave his ample chance to get your EB2 approved. The fact that you got your EB1 approved w/o his/her help indicates his/her incompetence. This person shd be publicised as such and reported to AILA.
 
1. Name the attorney and his/her address. These scumbags need to be brought to light.

2. I don't think you are obligated to pay, since your I-140 was not approved. Since this is an NIW, you have the power to withdraw the petition yourself, so it will never be approved.

3. If you a paper trail with your attorney's claim saying that he cannot show you the original petition letter etc, demand a refund for the original amount for a job not well done, or post the details on every immigration website you can find, and file a complaint with the bar association that your lawyer is a part of.
 
I don't think you should pay. Those lawyers only want money. Now money is in your hand, you just wait for his bugging. If your contract doesn't say about what if things like this, you have sufficient excuse to refuse to pay. that's my personal opinion.
 
If the attorney you mentioned is Thomas Fan, I had another story. My NIW
was contracted with his firm. I finally submitted 140 and 485 concurrently
at the end of January 2005 and the receipts were dated around Feb. 7, 2005.
My 140 was approved on June 13, and 485 approved on Aug. 29. Today I
got the email from CIS saying that my card has been ready and sent to me.
:)

At the beginning of my material preparation, I got a package of sample
letters and related documents, not directly related to my field. Fan reviewed
my letters in 2-3 days of my submission and gave some general comments.
This happened in the year 2003. Then during 2nd half of 2003 and 1st half of
2004, I totally stopped my application due to PhD graduation. In September
2004, I resumed my case and this time Ms. Nicole handled my application. She
sent to me the final documents (attorney's cover letter) and let me review it.
I was kind of being very satisfied with her work (cover letter, and the way to
present my documents).

From my point of view, it is better to go with not-so-famous guys since they
are struggling to become famouse by doing things successfully. They are
nice to talk with and patient to listen to our opinion and to explain their
actions. You knew what? After my 140 was approved, I received a mail from
Ms. Nicole saying that one of my email sending to her had no attachment
at all so she couldn't review it. I checked the date of my email she quoted
and found it was 1.5 years ago. So I replied her pointing out the error. She
apologized and said it was because she accidently entered into an old email
folder and my email was the latest one there. It shows that the attorneys
are kind of careless to our cases. My suggestion is: keep asking them if there
are better solutions available in your case. I always asked them in my phone
calls or emails to them "What do you think if I do it in ... way" or "Can I do
it like ...", and "What's your suggestion?" By doing so it doesn't hurt to you
but may keep your attorney to roll.

Anyway, my good result doesn't mean that Fan's service was good or better
than others. I just wish every one good luck and finally, thank God! I am out of all these.

InHopes
 
Re:

If we are talking about the same guy, I think we should be united to avoid anbolyelse to be trapped by him.
I had similar situation as you guys. He was keeping lying to me and I kept all evidence. I am thinking about bring him to small dispute court. Can I do so? Anybody out there want to do so?
 
Genuine's attorney looks like a robber to me. If what Genuine described is true, I just can't imagine how this attorney could survive.
 
lawyer question

I just think lawyer is good at collecting money. Don't hope they will do your case very seriously and try to control everything by yourself.

I already signed the contract and paid the first amount money. The contract says I will pay the second amount after I-140 submitted, and the third amount after I-140 approved. I am really disappointed at his service and want to do everything by myself. Since I won't need his service, I don't want to pay him any more. My contract doesn't have any words about this kind situation. Do you guys think that I will get trouble in the future? Many thanks for your kind suggestion!
 
NIWnew said:
I just think lawyer is good at collecting money. Don't hope they will do your case very seriously and try to control everything by yourself.

I already signed the contract and paid the first amount money. The contract says I will pay the second amount after I-140 submitted, and the third amount after I-140 approved. I am really disappointed at his service and want to do everything by myself. Since I won't need his service, I don't want to pay him any more. My contract doesn't have any words about this kind situation. Do you guys think that I will get trouble in the future? Many thanks for your kind suggestion!


I am also waiting for some suggestions to this problems!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for all the replies. My attorney is not Thomas Fan, but it is amazing to hear that other people have similar experience as myself. Everything I talked about in my initial post is true. I did not really intentionally keep any evidence, but now looking back, everything is pretty evident either by results (e.g. I ended up filing 485 well after 140 simply because I did not know that was even an option) or can be proven to some extent by paper or email trails (which I have all kept). I am hesitant to post his name (I am afraid of some sort of retribution particularly that he is a lawyer with means and resources, he has all my personal information, he can clearly tell who I am, and I have not received the green card). But if anybody intends to find an attorney in the new york metro area and wants to do some due diligence, please feel free to send me a message.

Also, couple of lessons I have learned that I wanted to share:

(1) do not try to save money by hiring lawyers that are inexpensive. I am sure there are good lawyers that are inexpensive, but definitely do not select lawyers solely/largely based on the price. you may save a few bucks, but the quality of the work product could suffer serverely. I can't tell you how frustrated and stressed I was throughout the process, particularly towards the end when my H-1 was running out and the lawyer couldn't care less. Unless you are truly cash constraint, no amount of money is worth that kind of helplessness and frustration.

(2) negotiate the contract upfront. put in as much qualitative descriptions in them as possible. negotiate an "out" clause for gross negligence or some sort of unsatisfactory service.

(3) voice your unhappiness. While I was unhappy with the service throughout, I tried not to show my disatisfaction because I wanted to stay on the "good" side of the attorney and naively hoping that he would provide me with better service as a result. I was afraid that if I upset him he would sabatoge my case. For that reason I tried to talk to him in a nice tone, keep things to facts, and not to show too much emotions even when I was angry, and then spent hours worrying that my anger did come across. Now this is coming back to haunt me. he claimed that I never told him I was unhappy with his service and I am just saying this to negotiate down the price (OK, this one he might have a point, but I truly hope he understands how bad of a service he provided me. I did confront him every time I found about one of his little surprises, and I don't even know where to start in terms of how unhelpful he is as an immigration lawyer).
 
genuine said:
Thanks for all the replies. My attorney is not Thomas Fan, but it is amazing to hear that other people have similar experience as myself. Everything I talked about in my initial post is true. I did not really intentionally keep any evidence, but now looking back, everything is pretty evident either by results (e.g. I ended up filing 485 well after 140 simply because I did not know that was even an option) or can be proven to some extent by paper or email trails (which I have all kept). I am hesitant to post his name (I am afraid of some sort of retribution particularly that he is a lawyer with means and resources, he has all my personal information, he can clearly tell who I am, and I have not received the green card). But if anybody intends to find an attorney in the new york metro area and wants to do some due diligence, please feel free to send me a message.

Also, couple of lessons I have learned that I wanted to share:

(1) do not try to save money by hiring lawyers that are inexpensive. I am sure there are good lawyers that are inexpensive, but definitely do not select lawyers solely/largely based on the price. you may save a few bucks, but the quality of the work product could suffer serverely. I can't tell you how frustrated and stressed I was throughout the process, particularly towards the end when my H-1 was running out and the lawyer couldn't care less. Unless you are truly cash constraint, no amount of money is worth that kind of helplessness and frustration.

(2) negotiate the contract upfront. put in as much qualitative descriptions in them as possible. negotiate an "out" clause for gross negligence or some sort of unsatisfactory service.

(3) voice your unhappiness. While I was unhappy with the service throughout, I tried not to show my disatisfaction because I wanted to stay on the "good" side of the attorney and naively hoping that he would provide me with better service as a result. I was afraid that if I upset him he would sabatoge my case. For that reason I tried to talk to him in a nice tone, keep things to facts, and not to show too much emotions even when I was angry, and then spent hours worrying that my anger did come across. Now this is coming back to haunt me. he claimed that I never told him I was unhappy with his service and I am just saying this to negotiate down the price (OK, this one he might have a point, but I truly hope he understands how bad of a service he provided me. I did confront him every time I found about one of his little surprises, and I don't even know where to start in terms of how unhelpful he is as an immigration lawyer).


I would highly recommend to send a letter/email to AILA and describing your case in detail. They might help that such attorney won't do any bad in the future.
 
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