Would you do it again?

marlon2006

Registered Users (C)
#1
Almost 2 years since I got the greencard, I have reflected in my whole experience in the US. For those out there who believe you might want more than 3 years waiting for the US permanent visa process, here are some thoughts, if anyone care to listen:

a) If you have wife who cannot work here due to lack of visa, think twice before you come or stay here for too long. If your wife is skilled, she could get a job in the home country and contribute towards the income. Here in the US, perhaps I made some more money than what I was going to make in the home country, but the fact that my wife did not work in her profession ended up as a disadvantage. Do not over overlook that.

b) If you are not doing exactly your dream profession when you get a job in the US, think about that. If you stay in a job in which you do not like the boss, environment or line of work just because you have to tolerate the job temporarily until the greencard is done, then you might be in trouble if the process takes too long. In my case I had to tolerate less than ideal bosses and line of work far too long. Is that worthed or the freedom to work in the home country is a better deal?

c) Things change in life;for some people, the dream of living in the US is all that matters. The problem is, time goes by fast, and one can change mind and realize that the home country is as good or a better place. If that ever happens, think about that and reflect whether other accomplishments besides the permanent residency here is worthwhile in case the home country turns out to improve.

d) Social life:see if living far away from family is what you want. Also, verify whether money you spend going back to Sweet India or China every year doesn't become an expense so high that could make up for a lower salary in your home country (then no need to travel anymore).

Just few thoughts out there of a man from a man who is getting old and tired of B.S..

My own conclusion is that I would never come to the US had I learned the greencad process took so long (4.7 years).
 
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envision

Registered Users (C)
#2
You should have done your research first no? Before I started the labor certification process my attorney told me the whole process would take up to 6 years and I was willing to go along. It's turns out it was 4.6 years total. Bottom line it's all about choices. Either you are willing to sacrifice years waiting or you don't.
 
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tusharvk

Registered Users (C)
#3
Good points certainly.
If you do not like what you are doing, certainly for GC one should not get stuck with that job.
Non-ideal bosses will be at all the jobs (big company or small). So this is certainly not new. Even if you are working in home country, this is not going to change.
If a spouse sets mind on working, visa restriction can not prevent them from working. It is more like an excuse that is put forward.
Times are certainly going to change; one has to factor in this before going into GC process.
Finally about social life. Trips to india or china do require substantial investment (especially for a family of 3 or more). Anyway, if you are in India and your family is located where jobs are not, then you have to still make these trips. Further the fact that you are closer to them means that you will be making these trips to visit them more than once/year. So the savings may not materialize to make up for the lower income.
It is a matter of trade-off. Nowhere you are going to have an ideal life; you can only be close to ideal. Further, these things are very personal and subjective. So, GC process delays may not mean much to one person and to someone else they may be huge deals.
Almost 2 years since I got the greencard, I have reflected in my whole experience in the US. For those out there who believe you might want more than 3 years waiting for the US permanent visa process, here are some thoughts, if anyone care to listen:

a) If you have wife who cannot work here due to lack of visa, think twice before you come or stay here for too long. If your wife is skilled, she could get a job in the home country and contribute towards the income. Here in the US, perhaps I made some more money than what I was going to make in the home country, but the fact that my wife did not work in her profession ended up as a disadvantage. Do not over overlook that.

b) If you are not doing exactly your dream profession when you get a job in the US, think about that. If you stay in a job in which you do not like the boss, environment or line of work just because you have to tolerate the job temporarily until the greencard is done, then you might be in trouble if the process takes too long. In my case I had to tolerate less than ideal bosses and line of work far too long. Is that worthed or the freedom to work in the home country is a better deal?

c) Things change in life;for some people, the dream of living in the US is all that matters. The problem is, time goes by fast, and one can change mind and realize that the home country is as good or a better place. If that ever happens, think about that and reflect whether other accomplishments besides the permanent residency here is worthwhile in case the home country turns out to improve.

d) Social life:see if living far away from family is what you want. Also, verify whether money you spend going back to Sweet India or China every year doesn't become an expense so high that could make up for a lower salary in your home country (then no need to travel anymore).

Just few thoughts out there of a man from a man who is getting old and tired of B.S..

My own conclusion is that I would never come to the US had I learned the greencad process took so long (4.7 years).
 

desi2007

Registered Users (C)
#4
let me add my two cents.
I have moved around the countries and even took citizenship from another country. Now in the GC line.As long as GC is just one of your goals (not main). I think you are good. All Marlon2006 mentioned is true. Life needs to have some goals and I am sure most of these GC seekers(either after GC or citizenship) will move back to home country not only because of their roots, but they cant afford to live in US after retirement. Retirement is going to cost more and more in US.

Now a days by the time you get your GC, you are middle aged and your 401K to retirement is too small to live here. If you have done your maths on children education & insurance costs you can figure that out.As long as you are young and work, you think different-you are busy and having a weekend dine out and shopping makes you happy. As soon as your job stops, you will have less things to do and more worries. By then you are groomed up with a style that you cant afford anymore. the only option will be to work till you die or move back to home coutry. I believe we will start seeing this mass movement sometimes noticeably(overseas american numbers have been steadily on the rise). In my opinion the best choice is to invest in home country where you have your roots so you can always fall back when things go wrong.
 

nTan

Registered Users (C)
#5
GC and retirement

Desi U make a point here ..

We moved to this country quite late in out life. And waiting GC we did not invest in retirement .. IRA, ROTH or 401k early on.

Of late we started but we have reached the age of 40 now ... and cost of living might not support us when we grow old, as we started the retirement account so late.

Only option we would have is to go back with whatever saving we have and try to die with some money in hand :)
 

marlon2006

Registered Users (C)
#6
Not sure if you are new around here son, but in this greencard mess - at least when I was applying for mine - no research or logical applied. Illegals and the amnesty thing bombarded us hard and people jammed the system overnight and everything my lawyer and common sense estimated as 2 years waiting times ended up being an endless wait.

Wife not working is not an excuse for many;if you wife got the degree for example but not enough experience and confidence to justify H1B, so then she could have more chances to work on home country and start her career there you know.

Again, I am just sharing some thoughts in case anyone cares. This is the research right here for you.

I am doing great in my current job and I got the exact job I wanted 5 months and 29 days after I got GC, but the truth is that for those of you out there reading this s*, see if this thought applies to you do what you have to do.

Moreover, I do not know your case, but in my case if the dollar continues like this I cannot justify reason to stay here;flight tickets back home to visit family every year is too expensive these days. IAt the same time, home country wages are equivalent to the American one. I think I am going to go back home after all.

You should have done your research first no? Before I started the labor certification process my attorney told me the whole process would take up to 6 years and I was willing to go along. It's turns out it was 4.6 years total. Bottom line it's all about choices. Either you are willing to sacrifice years waiting or you don't.
 

alterego2

Registered Users (C)
#7
This country's immigration policy is premised on people wanting to come here, work hard, building wealth for themselves and country and settling down with their families.

What I am seeing here is, their policies of late are creating such disgust that, they need to take note soon. They may find that more and more as the world globalizes and immigrants are less willing to take this crap, that more and more of them might start thinking the way some of you are stating on this post.

They might find more people saying let me come here, make some money and go back. If each person, especially the EB immigrants who are the ones with the real earning power and whose skills are in demand start thinking this way in significant numbers, it could have a definite additive detrimental effect on this country and worst of all it would have been self inflicted.

Imagine the impact of 100K families leaving this country each year with a million dollars apiece, US gained skills and contacts. Not possible? Think again, between retirees trying to escape escalating taxation, alienated immigrants returning to where they feel welcomed, the increasing attraction/livability of the developing world and the increasingly career destructive nature of the US immigration process, I am not sure it is as far fetched as it might seem. Especially with that citizenship in your back pocket! Imagine the impact of that on tax collections, the housing market, the stock market and the value of the dollar. Not to mention anything about the loss of R&D talent and brainpower that has made the US its home for the past half century. It is no exaggeration to say that the current US immigration policy is boneheaded in terms of its attractiveness to those it should desire to attract.


America needs to wake up and make their system more welcoming for those it truly desires, otherwise the results will not be good. Its current ambivalence toward those it should be courting will be a net loss. The value of the dollar will continue to plummet at ever accelerating rates. The US already has two sources of major leakage of dollars with Petro outflows and Chinese manufacturing imports, it risks creating another one. The economy will then start to resemble the bloated carcass of a whale rather than that of a prize-fighting bull. To my mind it seems that they are pursuing a weak dollar policy as their only hope of global competitiveness. Implicit in this however is a lower standard of life for the average joe, not sure how many people realize this, with a lower dollar, those gas prices won't stay where they are and those Chinese imports will not stay cheap either. If they thought outsourcing was bad now, then they might be in for a rude awakening when they see what happens when more employment creating immigrants decide to move back also.
 
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docboston

Registered Users (C)
#8
All the points made by by evryone here are valid, although I dont agree with most of them. Please try to remember why you decided to come here in the first place. We were all adults, no one forced us. We made a decision, based on our life circumstances, that coming to US would be better. We made that decision on the basis of the information we had, no body can make a decision based on information they WISH they had. Unfortunately, the human condition is such that throughout life, we will hear the inviting (division) bells of the "promised land" and wish we were there. (Sorry, I am a big pink floyd fan). Once we attain our dream it looses its value. Hence Marlon wonders why he went through all this? But assuming he now is not the wide eyed youth he was when he first came to US, he should understand that the "glittering lights" of the home land are just that, another "mirage". I came here on a J1 visa and 9 years later still remember the exhiliration I felt when I got into a residency program. I will get my green card eventually, but I dont regret my decision. Given the same circumstances, I would probably make the same decision every time.
 

marlon2006

Registered Users (C)
#9
This has nothing to do with my personal regrets or not. My objective is to share the information which is available now.

The information that I had was pretty much none. Back to the day I applied processing times were literally 2 years but then it became a moving target. So I am making the point that people now have more information and might consider experiences here and see whether that is worthwhile. The truth is that if this is worthwhile or not is going to be based on what your alternatives are. So that it is highly subjective. In my case, I waited 4.6 years and I was not happy with it. Personally I don't think I would take this restriction you are experiecing now, but again, I came from a place which may also offer decent amenities, high standard of living in certain regions, etc. Have a good day.

All the points made by by evryone here are valid, although I dont agree with most of them. Please try to remember why you decided to come here in the first place. We were all adults, no one forced us. We made a decision, based on our life circumstances, that coming to US would be better. We made that decision on the basis of the information we had, no body can make a decision based on information they WISH they had. Unfortunately, the human condition is such that throughout life, we will hear the inviting (division) bells of the "promised land" and wish we were there. (Sorry, I am a big pink floyd fan). Once we attain our dream it looses its value. Hence Marlon wonders why he went through all this? But assuming he now is not the wide eyed youth he was when he first came to US, he should understand that the "glittering lights" of the home land are just that, another "mirage". I came here on a J1 visa and 9 years later still remember the exhiliration I felt when I got into a residency program. I will get my green card eventually, but I dont regret my decision. Given the same circumstances, I would probably make the same decision every time.
 
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desi2007

Registered Users (C)
#10
I came here on a J1 visa and 9 years later still remember the exhiliration I felt when I got into a residency program. I will get my green card eventually, but I dont regret my decision. Given the same circumstances, I would probably make the same decision every time.
i think you certainly has a lot of perseverance. I can cite many doctors cases. trust me these are real because I have a doc like you in my family. what you are going through is utter crap. i will explain may be later. but to continue this thread , i had a close family(the husband was head of GI in a university here and wife a paed. He did FRCS from London came here on J1 took him 7.5 years to get his GC. only by then he made his mind to return to india and to set up a clinic in delhi. these are the stories we mean skilled reverse migration. I consider this guy as vry talented and pretty ambitious and he is certainly more perseverant than me.
look people get sick of it now a days. I still dont understand the fact why an NIW doc is treated so badly in the immigration system, when they have unskilled nurses practicing in most of the hsopitals in rural areas. infact they closed two on east texas. people here deserve a better life. I hope they will wake up one day (not people like lou dobbs in NY) knowing they dont have enough hands to take care of them. America has changed a lot in the last 10 years. I hope they change it again.
 

belacut

Registered Users (C)
#11
I came here on 03/2002. My PD is 04/2003. Still pending for the approval. (recently sent from NSC to NBC and God knows how much more time will take there...)
In short - NO! It is not worth it. I am from HK. Except I cannot enjoy the house I had in here.. pretty much I can get almost everything I had in here if I am in HK. I must admitted, US has better air quality, nicer weather, great outdoors and etc.. but when you are not in a good mood, believe me, you are not enjoying it at all after ALL.
So, why not going back HK, maybe you would ask.. yes, this is the question I asked almost every week if not daily to myself and my wife....??????
 

docboston

Registered Users (C)
#12
i think you certainly has a lot of perseverance. I can cite many doctors cases. trust me these are real because I have a doc like you in my family. what you are going through is utter crap. i will explain may be later. but to continue this thread , i had a close family(the husband was head of GI in a university here and wife a paed. He did FRCS from London came here on J1 took him 7.5 years to get his GC. only by then he made his mind to return to india and to set up a clinic in delhi. these are the stories we mean skilled reverse migration. I consider this guy as vry talented and pretty ambitious and he is certainly more perseverant than me.
look people get sick of it now a days. I still dont understand the fact why an NIW doc is treated so badly in the immigration system, when they have unskilled nurses practicing in most of the hsopitals in rural areas. infact they closed two on east texas. people here deserve a better life. I hope they will wake up one day (not people like lou dobbs in NY) knowing they dont have enough hands to take care of them. America has changed a lot in the last 10 years. I hope they change it again.
I feel many people loose perspective when they are in our situation. Repeatedly listening to sob stories of other people and reading about how the "system" is screwing us, will affect us all in a negative way. All I can say is that in my journey, at every stage I met people who were pessimistic. " DOnt even apply for a visa, doctors dont get visa's, dont even apply for a fellowship because j1 doctors cant get GC after doing fellowships, go back after doing fellowship as there is severe retrogression coming etc etc." There was some truth to all these, but the odds were that you WOULD get a visa, you WOULD get a fellowship and you WOULD get through the retrogression. However, no one bothered to point that out. Personally I dont feel I have been treated as crap by the INS. I did 3 yrs residency, 3 yr fellowship on J1. Didnt have any job insecurity during this time period. Then signed a contract with USCIS that in exchange for working in an underserved area for 3 years, I will qualify for GC. My 3 years completed in July 2008, my priority date became current in July 2008 bulletin and I filed my I-485. After 6 months i can use ac21 to change jobs, but I am pretty happy with the one I have.
I feel that people should also hear the positive aspects of US immigration, and not just give up their dream because of negative stuff they keep reading and hearing about. They should be grounded in reality.
 

marlon2006

Registered Users (C)
#13
In your case, you were simply lucky that you got a job that you like. You "WOULD" get a visa, etc, but the question is, how long it takes. For most people who may decide to change jobs during the course of few years employed with original sponsor, the limitation of changing jobs, even on AC21, may make such restriction a very unfeasible experience. Good for you that you are happy with the greencard process. Go on and you might want to write thank you note to USCIS.

I feel many people loose perspective when they are in our situation. Repeatedly listening to sob stories of other people and reading about how the "system" is screwing us, will affect us all in a negative way. All I can say is that in my journey, at every stage I met people who were pessimistic. " DOnt even apply for a visa, doctors dont get visa's, dont even apply for a fellowship because j1 doctors cant get GC after doing fellowships, go back after doing fellowship as there is severe retrogression coming etc etc." There was some truth to all these, but the odds were that you WOULD get a visa, you WOULD get a fellowship and you WOULD get through the retrogression. However, no one bothered to point that out. Personally I dont feel I have been treated as crap by the INS. I did 3 yrs residency, 3 yr fellowship on J1. Didnt have any job insecurity during this time period. Then signed a contract with USCIS that in exchange for working in an underserved area for 3 years, I will qualify for GC. My 3 years completed in July 2008, my priority date became current in July 2008 bulletin and I filed my I-485. After 6 months i can use ac21 to change jobs, but I am pretty happy with the one I have.
I feel that people should also hear the positive aspects of US immigration, and not just give up their dream because of negative stuff they keep reading and hearing about. They should be grounded in reality.
 

tusharvk

Registered Users (C)
#14
The point being made is that GC is not worth the time spent in obtaining it. This is very subjective thing.
There was a poster called UN; he had pointed that spouses of H1 can and do work even if they do not have H1 visa.
Furthermore, after perm and 140 are approved you can change jobs and keep PD.
So there will be many reasons given by people (depending on their own situation) for not going through the GC process or why it is not worth it. What matters is only whether you yourself think if it is worth it.
 

belacut

Registered Users (C)
#15
The point being made is that GC is not worth the time spent in obtaining it. This is very subjective thing.
There was a poster called UN; he had pointed that spouses of H1 can and do work even if they do not have H1 visa.
Furthermore, after perm and 140 are approved you can change jobs and keep PD.
So there will be many reasons given by people (depending on their own situation) for not going through the GC process or why it is not worth it. What matters is only whether you yourself think if it is worth it.
Let me put it this way.... It is called Freedom...
So, what is freedom? If you never need to execrise it (like change a job, choose study over work, visit your family back home without worry about that you may not able to come in again (It actually happens to my family) Such thing is never an issue.. but when you want execrise it and you know this is not as easy as you could imagine, then you know you lose your freedom at that moment and I am sure 99.9% of the people in the world will feel very upset.

We never been home in the last 5-6 years. (we went up to Canada and we got denied entry once and it took us 5 weeks at Canada to fix that...)

So, tell me about this is a journey that we need to learn. I don't mind if they don't give me the GC. But tell me within a reasonable time frame....
 

zbd

Registered Users (C)
#16
All this is bulls*t

I see myself at all the words here!!!
And reading people's story makes me sad. That's why I stopped looking at imm. forums. I'm here and trying to stay here just for girl's education due to language problem. I was saving 2K a month when I was back in my home country. Here, in 5 years, I spent all my saving. At the age 40, go back to home with nothing...401K has only 12K. (if it is less then a million, you're f*d when you're retired)

This system made me sick and i will probably loose my parents without seeing them since i can not effort to go.

Damn the day I made this decision! Every they money issue, even try to bake the bread, buy used staff for kids... It's really hurting me a lot!!!

If I could go back, I would by tomorrow with first flight. I don't even have to sell the house. It's value is half of last year and I used most of it for equity credit.

But good think is I still a house, a small land, a little leftover saving, 15 years retirement and 2 private insurance and parents back there. There is nobody here if we seriously get sick to take care. All we're here is s paycheck, credit card transactions or insurance premiums! Thats all.
It's my first connection after 4 months. I'll probably connect again after getting my card (expecting in 6 mons) That's it. Then find a other part-time job for me to effort the cas costs life style we're used to back in home country.

I should quit smoking but this GC is killing me. Asking my self, is worthed?
But it's like a fight me now to get it. Or else, I will feel defeated!

Enjoy guys, life is good, rest is story. Everybody has some story.
Zbd.
 

akela

Registered Users (C)
#17
Well I will tell you about my story and yes it is a sob story, so read it only if you want to...
I did my Btech from IIT, did 2 years work in the best job in India, then got scholarship from one of the top 10 MBA school here. So far it was like a dream run. Completed my MBA and then joined the workforce (mistake on my part, I should have not chosen the company that I chose, GC or no GC). After some acquisitions and delays, it took nearly 6 years from when I began my GC journey and 8 years since I joined this job to get my GC. The company is great, the bosses were fine, but the line of job was not what suited my qualification. Needless to say 9 years after attaining freedom I am not suitable for jobs that most MBA would want. Even after being in the top 15-25% of the company (they rate you) for all of the 9 years, my pay is almost same as what I started with. Emotional scares, in trying to do any job to remain employed still haunt me. Could I have changed the line or increased my pay had I not been constrained by the GC situation, yes of course!!
But here is the kicker, after almost year and half of GC I am stuck in the same job and almost same pay (well I have managed a little change in job line, more still far away from what I would want). What GC wait managed to do me was put my free spirit into shackles. Maybe it has castrated me forever, maybe it is the bad economy, maybe I will again rise like a Phoenix …… but knowing what the GC has done to me, will I do it ever again, I guess NOT.
regards,
akela
 
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Sc3

Registered Users (C)
#18
akela,

you are not the only one to feel so. While I dont have IIT or MBA credentials, I have been waiting over 8 years myself (and still waiting). I chose the line of work I wanted to do, it is a rarefied field, but not with a lot of promise (small segment, limited growth, people you see today will be the people you see 5 or 10 years later -- probably in the same office space!), but I more than loved the work when I started, now I just about barely love it. I guess, working on the same thing for so long makes things boring.

Would I do this again? I guess I will want to get my GC again, but will probably not wait so long for it. I would definitely advise anyone to make full use of loopholes (buy your labor substitution (of course no longer possible), fudge where possible, join a company and start GC process knowing fully well that you are not going to stick around) -- of course it looks nice to talk about following the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. Unfortunately I see that in this system, as with any other system in the world, people following the law are the people who are shafted the most.

end of rant. (what? you did not know I was ranting??)
 
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sky88

Registered Users (C)
#19
marlon2006, I can totally relate and agree to your pointsss!!!!

But I always try to remind myself, though I have spent 6 ++years (or more...who knows) waiting for this stupid card, but during these 6 years, I also gained a lot .....in terms of life experience, work experience, friends....etc.

And even if I think I have wasted the 6 years for GC, there is nothing that stops me from making a bold decision to end this stupid and unfair mess...i.e forget about the GC...and return home and some place in Asia. Opportuninies are plenty in Asia, but we have to be there to explore them! Wasting the 6 years is better than wasting the rest of our lives waiting or doing something we do not enjoy!

It's a matter of CHOICE...i think! But I am still finding the courage to make that CHOICE!
 
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