Why DOS is waiting for 245i based cases ?

marlon2006

Registered Users (C)
If I understand correctly, the Department of State argument to set such ancient cut-off dates for the EB3 worldwide folks is that down the road thousands of 245(i) and other cases will be demanding visa numbers as well. Right now most of these 245(i) are still in the labor certification phase.

Anyone here can explain why this approach ? I mean, if we have people such as the Employment Base greencard applicants with I-485 pending or ready to file I-485, why not just let us file the thing now ? Then later the 245(i) or others in the queue should wait their turn to have visa numbers available ? This doesn't make sense to me, or perhaps there is another political reason to keep this on hold...
 
If USDOS knew their stuff???

What frustrates us is the fact that we have come to expect a first-world class service from USDOS and USCIS because of living in a first world. Every other agency or organisation in good old USA has some accountability and some amount of transparency (okay, leave the defence department out). So, when we see why this agency does such ridiculous things, we are totally riled and fuming.

However, this agency has been since it's creation done things exactly the same way (inefficient, non-transparent etc. etc.). Historically, allowing immigrants into this country has been a very careful business, usually only allowing in a sort of tricke effect. Using 245(i) is a lame excuse and they know it.

Ironically, a good friend of mine works with the government and is pretty frank about the fact that if some customers/taxpayers take on a confrontational attitude with his agency, his staff ensures that they drag the process/paperwork to a crawl (indirectly, to teach them a lesson). Weird for a democracy, eh?

I am all for raising your voice, taking action but I also acknowledge the big challenges we face in dealing with this incorrigible giant.
 
245(i) is a cover ...

Guys and Gals,

If we haven't figured it out already, its high time we realized that for the past 6-7 months DOS and USCIS has been using the 245i cases as an excuse for retrogression. There is no doubt that 245i cases will flood the system at some point, however the DOS conveiently used this to implement a draconian retrogression that has enabled them to clean house by approving a lot of old pending cases. When the dates were current, the USCIS approved cases without any regard for PD, ND or RD. A lot of cases with PDs in 02-03, got approved before 00-01. In the process they screwed over thousands of people who have been waiting for years. When they realized that they had created a huge mess, they conveiently used the excuse of 245i and threw the dates back to 98 and 99. This prevented a lot of people from filing and lessed the load on USCIS. Over the past 6-7 months, the USCIS has been approving really old PDs and making sure that they get done with older PDs before opening the flood gates of new applications (especially from India). In a way this retrogression was necessary because things had gotten out of control, however it was implemented in haste and they over did it. Now that they have gotten 7-8 months of opporunity to correct their past errors, they are moving the dates.

All this will be shortlived however, at some point the 245i cases will flood the system and REAL retrogression will hit. Lets hope it is not that bad.

regards,

saras76
 
Hmmm... I am really glad they are approving cases based on FIFO, I am not sure whether one needs to set such cut-off dates to organize a first-in first-out methodology that was broken. They have dates written down on applications, why not just to follow and track that like most intelligent people would do ?

I don't know, something doesn't look right. I am wondering whether this has to do with political issues, reasons unknown to us. Based on what we have seen so far, it seems there are not many I-485 cases from 2001 left, except for the illegal aliens (245i). Who knows perhaps the government relies on votes coming from the illegal aliens and want them to get GC as soon as possible and are running all over us. Sorry for the speculation, just a thought.


For God's sake, based on the report the DOS authorities gave to AILA.org, it seems that right now the majority of 140K annual visas are idle, aren't they ? It seems the flood of demand for visa numbers haven't happened so far. That means they are waiting for the 245i illegal aliens to file I-485... this is irrational. Just let the ones that ready in the queue to file now. Moreover, chances are the Congress could work in immigration reforms and then address future visa number increase for applicants down the road...

unitednations said:
Very nicely put.

Sometimes when we jump up and down screaming at USCIS, they wind up listening, to our detriment.

When USCIS was approving later filed cases last year; everyone was screaming first in first out.

Well, USCIS/DOS probably said yes we created this mess so to follow the first in first out then we will wait to approve the 245i cases before anyone else.
 
Shouldn't we send an email to ombudsmen complaining about the issue?

because I fear they would not be able to use full annual quota of 140k by end of FS 2006. Eventually many visas will go unused/wasted and on the other hand, so many people could not able to apply/process I-1485 due to lack of visas. This is absolutely rediculous!
 
I use the following analogy ..

Guys and Gals,

When it comes to the DOS and USCIS, I like to think of a water pipe with several holes in it and only one piece of tape to stop leakage. The DOS and USCIS use this single tape on the hole that they feel is getting bigger and will cause it to burst. Sometimes they are told to put the single piece of tape on a hole that is determined by Congress and other influential agencies. When they place the tape on any one hole, the leakage their stops, however the pressure on the other holes increases and they start increasing in size. After a while the DOS and USCIS suvey the pipe again and determine that other holes are getting larger and they take the tape from the previous hole and put it on the another larger one. Over time every hole gets larger and the pressure on the pipe keeps increasing. The DOS and USCIS do not beleive in fixing the holes permanently or getting more tape. They are not interested and their hands are also tied. All they do is tape up the largest hole and move on. Their aim is to prevent the pipe from bursting, they are least concerned with efficiency or logic. We will see an overhaul only when one of the holes get so large that it bursts the pipe. there will be no change until then.

As funny and stupid as this sounds, it is a good way to understand this broken system.

regards,

saras76
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If your line of thought is correct, then that tells me that things won't improve in the short-term: the DOS will hold these visa numbers until the 245i cases get cleared, they are determined to do that. Do the math:Using this argument, 300K illegals would consume visa numbers to be released from the October 2007 Visa Bulletin and likely visa numbers from October 2008 Visa Bulletin as well.

If it continues this way, we are lucky if the 2002 EB3 folks get cases processed in the several moths ahead, but I am not sure if I can see cut-off dates going beyound 2002 in the medium-term.

Ironically, I am afraid that no one speaking on our behalf has approached this problem accordingly: in my opinion, a solution to this specific problem should be addressed, not necessarily fighting for a comprenhesive immigraiton reform and get into controlversial immigration debate at this time. We should ask for a TEMPORARY increase and RECAPTURE of visa numbers to let us pass this time of unavailability of visa numbers caused by that 245i amnesty that hurt our own greencard applications so hard. I can tell you that a TEMPORARY increase and recapture of numbers request sound way more reasonable than a request for a permanent increase in visa numbers by not counting spouses. An emergency bill under following that temporary line of thought should have way more chances to get approved on a timely manner. If I had lobbying power connections right now, I would be doing a campaign to get a bill to address this imminent problem, what would be probably receive more bipartisan support and more acceptable by anti-immigration forces. I would let the fight for permanent increase in visa numbers for a more long-term discussion, since that is too controversial.













unitednations said:
I read the ombudsmen report issued for the period ended June 2005. It bascially confirmed USCIS file maintenance mismanagement, lack of coordination; lack of information from their case logs, etc.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
UN,
I have a question. I agree with your EB-3 analysis above. Things could improve a little or they could stagnate. But what about EB-2?

What percentage of 245i cases are EB-2?

And what number of EB-2 cases exist out of the 300K+ LC's at the BEC's? 100K?

Any idea?
 
It doesn't effect EB2 at all

In my opnion Every country has limit that way Maxico may stuck rest of the world will forword.

That's why In March VB Macico is Still Mar 2001 and rest of them May 2001 Indian Will move further in Next VB (April).


msh626 said:
UN,
I have a question. I agree with your EB-3 analysis above. Things could improve a little or they could stagnate. But what about EB-2?

What percentage of 245i cases are EB-2?

And what number of EB-2 cases exist out of the 300K+ LC's at the BEC's? 100K?

Any idea?
 
I agree

USCIS_GC_APPRO said:
In my opnion Every country has limit that way Maxico may stuck rest of the world will forword.

That's why In March VB Macico is Still Mar 2001 and rest of them May 2001 Indian Will move further in Next VB (April).

I agree that EB2s should move along nicely this fiscal year. EB3s should also move in the next few months because 245i cases have not flooded the system. The April-May VBs will go a long way in determining our fate this fiscal year. Lets keep our fingers crossed and our eyes open.

regards,

saras76
 
BE3 and amnesty-country limits ?

So for India EB3 quota, the EB3 India numbers will
be used up only IF Indian citizens are granted amnesty
right ? As far as I know it was mostly mexcian
nationals who were granted amnesty before/during
April 2001.

So was Indian nationals Eb3 quota numbers be used too
for Mexcians or was it just used to ganrt Amnesty for
Indian nationals only. The reason Ia sk is there may
not be too many illegal Indians as compared to mexican
nationals and therefre the retrogression after April
01 may not be as bad ? Any thoughts ?
 
I have no idea why people are worried about 245(i) cases can some one explain them to me please and How they effect me with PD of sep2002.
 
It does effect EB3 India too.

Ghost_card said:
I have no idea why people are worried about 245(i) cases can some one explain them to me please and How they effect me with PD of sep2002.

This is what I came to know - We are under the impression that most of the 245(i) cases filed in april 2001 are those of Mexicans or people from South America. While it is true, it is aslo true that there are a lot of Indians also who filed in this category. One law firm in NY filed around 10,000 cases for people from India in this category and many of these are taxi guys, people who came on a visitor visa and stayed back etc.

Now, if DOL starts approving these cases then India EB3 is going to be stuck and if not, we can see movement beyond april 2001 in the next visa bulletin (hopefully). Otherwise, EB3 India is also going to be effected. BTW, my
PD is also September 2002 - India - EB3.
 
Don't know why the speculation is taking so much influence that they stopped the PD movement.
Let analyse it logically.
They are saying that there are around 300,000 245 i cases. Most of them are mexicans. Some people say its around 90% and some say 70%.
Take the lowest number 70%. Then the rest of world applicants (including india, china, etc) is about 90,000.
245(i) applicants can apply either on family based or on employment based categories. Its not easy for one who is illegal to apply on employment as a friend of mine is 245(i) and got his GC mid 2005. He told me that INS is too strict about these cases in employment based and need a lot of verification pay stub and tax information from the company. So consider that half of them goes to employment based. I would say a lot less then that but take the big number. So now its around 45000 for the rest of the world except mexico.
I personllly know a lot of people from 245(i) who and their families got the GC way back and living good life.
so lets say 15000 got their GC already. This would be 30000 people who can affect the categories except mexico (I would say that figues would be much less then this).
I dont see this as much. The retrogession has basically no grounds. Its just a fear and speculation by the DOS.
I am pretty sure that they will make it current for all categories in months before Oct 2006 but there will not be enough time for adjudication and all visa numbers will be wasted.
I think its a perfect game plan to reduce the number of immigrants coming from other countries.
Does this makes sense.




GC_Govinda said:
This is what I came to know - We are under the impression that most of the 245(i) cases filed in april 2001 are those of Mexicans or people from South America. While it is true, it is aslo true that there are a lot of Indians also who filed in this category. One law firm in NY filed around 10,000 cases for people from India in this category and many of these are taxi guys, people who came on a visitor visa and stayed back etc.

Now, if DOL starts approving these cases then India EB3 is going to be stuck and if not, we can see movement beyond april 2001 in the next visa bulletin (hopefully). Otherwise, EB3 India is also going to be effected. BTW, my
PD is also September 2002 - India - EB3.
 
Its right, there may be lot of Indians...but these folks that you mention -taxi drivers, c-store owners, etc - are in the EBs-EW (essential worker) category which is limited by law to 10,000 a year. They are generally not in the EB3- Skilled worker/professional category.

I seee no reason for severe retrogression. I do think like almost all years in the past (save 2005) they may end us wasting visa numbers.
 
how taxi drivers get EB3...

I have difficulty understanding how taxi drivers get EB3...
Is that a skilled profession certified by DOL?

GC_Govinda said:
One law firm in NY filed around 10,000 cases for people from India in this category and many of these are taxi guys, people who came on a visitor visa and stayed back etc.
 
if you have 3 year experience, then they might be eb3, if they are cooks, they most likely to be eb3. EB3 is skilled worker and professional. :mad:
 
nonogc said:
if you have 3 year experience, then they might be eb3, if they are cooks, they most likely to be eb3. EB3 is skilled worker and professional. :mad:

Yes. This is the reason that I had in my mind. Now the problem is - I am not sure if USCIS takes into account the per country distribution in 245i cases. This is very important as they establish the priority dates based on "speculation" on existing data - what their existing data is something that we don't know and I guess neither do they !!
 
Now the DOS brought up their smart plan to 'clear all backlogs by Sept. 2007'. As immigration-law noted, this would cause a huge demand for visas at USCIS. We are simply getting hit from all sides and directions, basically we are experiencing all imaginable bottlenecks along the way :eek:

My real concern is not whether Congress will increase or not the EB visa numbers. My real concern is that millions and millions of illegal aliens also get THEIR visa numbers also increased and keep us in the backlog for years to come. I called immigrationvoice.org and suggested:

1. A short-term remedy, in which we should request to Senators come up with a very specific, temporary increase in EB visa numbers based on recapture to take the folks with later priority dates (2001-2003) out of this mess. This is very reasonable because the 'temporary' nature of this EB visa numbers increase should likely receive bipartisan support. Believe me, waiting to include our bill with the illegal aliens/guest-worker may not bring the best results to us.

2. Lobby for a medium/long-term solution, which is in progress already, in which a more permanent solution is sought via one of the pending immigration bills.



nonogc said:
if you have 3 year experience, then they might be eb3, if they are cooks, they most likely to be eb3. EB3 is skilled worker and professional. :mad:
 
Top