TN to Green Card Procedure question

prg1000

New Member
Hello
We have recently started to follow the immigration discussion board. We are canadian Citizens. I have recently started work in New York with a TN visa. I am very confused about the process of application of Green Card for Canadian Citizens on TN visa. I have two questions.

1. Is it possible to go for a Green Card without going through the H1B Visa?
2. What are the pros and cons of doing this process as compared to the H1B process?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

PRG1000
 
What this means is that you can apply for I-140, but you won't be able to renew your TN. This fact alone does NOT mean that USCIS will deny your green card.

That is OK, since if you file your I-485 concurrently with your I-140, you can file for EAD at the same time (Employment Authorization Document). EAD will let you continue working. You should also apply for advance parole so that you can travel outside of the US while your I-140/I-485 is pending. Your status would not be "TN Status", but rather "I-485 adjustee status"

Remember you should not apply for a TN ever again after you have applied for the I-140/I-485. You will need to renew your EAD every year to continue working legally.

Since a TN does not allow for dual intent, this prohibits you from applying for, or extending a TN Visa while you have a I-140/I485 pending for the purposes of getting a Green card. .It does NOT prohibit you from applying for a green card while being on a TN. Note the difference.

I am not a lawyer. This is from my lawyer though. I personally know 5 people who went from a TN to I-140 to I-485 and EAD, and never renewed their TN. They successfully got their green cards in the end.


The only risk is as follows:
If your green card is denied for any reason, you will not have permission to work, while your appeal is pending. Upon final denial, you will need to leave the US immidiately. You will never be approved for another TN ever again, since you have shown immigrant intent in the past.

A person on a H1B can keep renewing the H1B while the green card application is pending. This person does not need to apply for EAD's every year, as long as they don't change jobs from the original I-140 sponsor. If the I-485 is denied, then that person can stay in the US until thier H1B expires, at which time they will need to leave the country for the period of 1 year.
 
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unitednations,
There would not be any TN for the CIS to deny, since you would not need to apply for one. You would never apply for a TN again after you applied for I-140/I-485, since you would apply for your EAD and your advance parole in the place of a TN.

Read your exact words again: "The INS would deny the TN right away and then you would be out of status." that is only true if you applied for a TN while a I-140 was pending. In the case I mention below you will NOT apply for a TN ever again. You will be applying for an EAD. This is how you must comply with this rule.

CIS is not saying that it will revoke your current TN, they are saying they will not allow you to apply for a new one.

You would no longer travel on your TN, you would travel on your Advance Parole.

step 1: You have a current TN valid for at least 8 months. This is to make sure you get the EAD in time, since you cannot apply for another TN once you proceed to step 2..

step 2: You apply for I-140 & I-485 concurrently.

step 2a: You also apply for your EAD and your advance parole at the same time as step 2 above. Your spouse should do the same.

step 2b: Do not travel out of the country until you get step 3b below. You will need an advance parole document to get back in. You mention risk of failure. If there is any risk of failure its at step 2b. If you don't have a valid Advance Parole, you wil not get back into the US.

step 3: when you receive your EAD, you will notify your employer, and you tell them you've switched from TN to EAD. This invalidates your TN at this time. You can take the TN out of your passport now, since you have invalidated it. Your status is no longer "TN Status". Your status is now "I-485 adjustee status".

step 3a: Your spouse can work once they receive their EAD, unlike when they were on a TD.

step 3b: When you receive your Advance Parole you can travel. You show the CIS officer at the border your Advance Parole Document. If he asks if you have permission to work, you show him your EAD. Do not show him your TN, since you have invalidated it by using your EAD with your employer. Remember you are no longer in TN status. Your spouse must have their own copy of an Advance Parole.

note: Never apply for another TN Visa. Remember to renew your EAD every year and keep it valid until your I-485 is approved.

This is completely legal. But it does not go without risk if the I-485 is denied.

I know people that have gotten their cards this way as recently as late 2003, and as Early as May 2001.
 
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Thanks for replying to my post. You have confirmed my suspcion. Although it is procedurally possible to apply for a Green Card from a TN status it has the potential of a serious problem in going out of the country and comming back in. Also it makes it very difficult to renew the TN status.

Thanks again for replying to my post.

Best regards

prg1000
 
H1-B to TN question

I am eligible for TN but have this problem:

I was on H1 before (and applied for GC although did not even get to the I-140 stage yet...)

and now that I am no longer employed by that company I would like to apply for TN thru another sponsor

I know my case is challenging, but I will greatly appreciate any advice....Thanks
 
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Yes, from my personal experience, never apply GC while you're on TN. I admit I'm the unlucky one among the group as all my other co-workers got their EAD/AP without problem, but you can never predict whether you have luck with USCIS or not. You don't want to do anything that may jeopradize your status...so switch to H1B before applying for GC!!!!
 
I am in same b0at Please help me

Dear I am very much confused because my lawyer didn't tell me that I can't apply for TN extension while my 485, EAD and AP are pending. Acutally what happend, I applied for 140 in sep 2003 and got approval in June 2004 . MY TN was expiring on June 11, 2004 so Ihave to apply for extension through service center. then I applied for 485, EAD and AP in July 2004. It has been five month while i have applied for TN extension but no reply yet and there is no response for EAD and AP also. after reading your messages I am very much confused about my case. I am thinkiing what will happen to me now.
Now I understand, TN doesn't have dual intension and while my applications are in process alomost same time. Please write me what should I do to save my status and get the GC.
Thanks ina dvance.
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curiousGeorge said:
What this means is that you can apply for I-140, but you won't be able to renew your TN. This fact alone does NOT mean that USCIS will deny your green card.

That is OK, since if you file your I-485 concurrently with your I-140, you can file for EAD at the same time (Employment Authorization Document). EAD will let you continue working. You should also apply for advance parole so that you can travel outside of the US while your I-140/I-485 is pending. Your status would not be "TN Status", but rather "I-485 adjustee status"

Remember you should not apply for a TN ever again after you have applied for the I-140/I-485. You will need to renew your EAD every year to continue working legally.

Since a TN does not allow for dual intent, this prohibits you from applying for, or extending a TN Visa while you have a I-140/I485 pending for the purposes of getting a Green card. .It does NOT prohibit you from applying for a green card while being on a TN. Note the difference.

I am not a lawyer. This is from my lawyer though. I personally know 5 people who went from a TN to I-140 to I-485 and EAD, and never renewed their TN. They successfully got their green cards in the end.


The only risk is as follows:
If your green card is denied for any reason, you will not have permission to work, while your appeal is pending. Upon final denial, you will need to leave the US immidiately. You will never be approved for another TN ever again, since you have shown immigrant intent in the past.

A person on a H1B can keep renewing the H1B while the green card application is pending. This person does not need to apply for EAD's every year, as long as they don't change jobs from the original I-140 sponsor. If the I-485 is denied, then that person can stay in the US until thier H1B expires, at which time they will need to leave the country for the period of 1 year.
 
I agreed, go to local office and check out what's going on with your 485/EAD/AP application. Since they know you already filed TN extension, they may not approve your EAD/AP and go straight to denial. You can also send a fax inquiry.
 
Dear You are right pretty much but My TN was expiring in June and applied for rebewal in May and they asked one information for TN and it took three months and they have received that information in septemebr since then no reply for me. According to my understanding once I have applied for renewal my case is under process so I am not out of status. it happened last year too when I applied for TN extension in April they approved the case in Septmebr almost 5 months after filing the case. AS I have applied for 485, EAD and AP with approved 140 in July, so all files under process, will they deny my TN extension and will they approve for EAD?
As you are saying I gonna have some probelms at 485 stage, please write me what should I do in this situation.
Thanks for your prompt reply.
Rafiq
 
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From Murthy.com
Rumor : A person who is on a TN visa can apply for adjustment of status because the TN has dual intent just like the H1B and L-1 visas.
Posted July 30, 2003

Clarification : Though some may believe this is true, and some BCIS employees will offer this opinion, there is no written law, regulation, or policy that allows or recognizes dual intent for those on TN status. Dual intent is only recognized clearly for those on H1B and L-1 status. If a person files for adjustment of status while on TN status, we recommend that the applicant file for the Employment Authorization Document, in order to work legally, and the Advance Parole, to be able to reenter the U.S. after foreign travel
 
Did you get your EAD prior to your TN expired? If yes then you're fine. If not, they will probably deny your TN extension and you are out of work status from the time your TN expired.
 
Unitednations,
physiorafiq is ok to work. His TN extension was filed before his old TN was expired. As long as he filed his TN extension before the current one is expired he can continue to work, even if the current one expires, for 240 days. He CANNOT leave the United States once the old one is expired, and the new one has not arrived yet, and he does not yet have an Advance Parole.

If 240 days go by, and no EAD aapeoved and no TN extension has arived yet, physiorafiq will need to take a leave of absence, or risk working without authorization, which may cause problems at the time of adjudicating the I-485.

physiorafiq is now in that uncomfortable limbo stage that I also went through at one point, but he is legal to work and reside in the US at this time. He cannot leave the country until he receives his Advance parole. Further more, if his TN extension does not arrive before his EAD, or 240 days go by, then he cannot work until his EAD is approved. Worse yet, if his TN extension is denied, he also cannot work until the EAD arrives. Either way, he continues to be in status, since even if his TN is denied, he is still in "I-485 pending" status since he's filed for I-485.

He should no longer file for any more TN extensions after having applied for I-485.

My TN extension was also sent a few monthes before filing my I-485. I already had an approved I-140 though. The approved TN extension arrived about a month after my EAD arrived, so chongip's statement that the TN will be denied is not necassarily true. NSC may just have a backlog, and its taking longer than usual.

Bottom line, and most importantly, do not cross the border at this point until Advance Parole is approved.
 
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curious George,
Really? They still approved your TN extension even though you filed your I485? See at that time my attorney definitely said no to my TN extension. The only different is my I140/485 was filed concurrently and the attempt to file TN extension came after the I485 application.
Yup, same question as UN, if physio got denied for his TN extension, then he was out of work status from the time that his TN expired....right?
 
chongyip said:
curious George,
Yup, same question as UN, if physio got denied for his TN extension, then he was out of work status from the time that his TN expired....right?

This I am not sure about, I'm not an expert on denied TN's, but I am guessing that you can work as long as it takes to adjudicate the TN, or if 240 days have passsed. You would only need to stop working if the TN was denied, but you wouldn't be penalized for having worked, when it was pending. You had no idea that they were going to deny you, so how could it be your fault for working during this time. This specific scenario should follow the same rules as H1B, which you all may be more familiar with, and I am not an expert in H1B's. What happens if an H1B extension is denied for some reason? Assuming there is no I-485 filed at all would you have been considered as "working illegally" from the point the old H1B expired? TheRealCanadian may know more.

To answer your concerns about my case:
My company recently transferred my case, along with all the other immigration cases to a different law firm. This has caused me even more stress, because I am doubtful that that USCIS will update their files with the new lawyer's address in time before my interview letter gets sent. My basis for this stress is that the old lawyer moved to a new office about 10 months earlier. He is still receiving mail to his old address even though he updated the USCIS with his new address. Now my interview letter could get lost in the shuffle before it gets to me on time.

[Old Lawyer's old address] -> [Old Lawyer's New Address] -> [New Lawyer] -> [Me]

Either way this new law firm has about 5 people working on my case, 3 of which are immigration attorneys, which is way more than the old law firm, and since the case is new to them they have been rigorously reviewing it. They were recently discussing why my case could have been transferred, and they did not see any problems at all with having changed status from TN to "I-485 pending". Remember, that although there is no specific mention of dual intent for a TN, there is the flip side also, since there is no specific mention that dual intent does NOT apply to a TN.

They inquired if I had traveled during the time between when I-485 was filed and before the Advance Parole was approved. I said no, and they said that this may be the only thing that the interviewer may want to verify. They will accompany me to the interview, just in case, but they do not see any problems that are not easily solvable with an explanation, or with the proof we already have. They are quite confident that my case will be approved.....eventually. They highly doubt my case was transferred due to the TN, and they believe it was just a random transfer, but are getting ready for any questions that may arise. By the way, my first lawyer was of the exact same opinion, so this increases the probability that it was random.

I have tried to get them to inquire at the local office to get me an interview, based on the fact that I need to file an affidavit of support for my mother who won the DV-2005 lottery. They said that some of the officers have a soft side for family related problems like this caused by immigration delays, and it might work to get the interview.

Cross your fingers for me.


Here is a quote on extending a TN whan an I-485 is pending from a lawyer:

http://www.grasmick.com/canimfaq.htm
See Question 7 on that page.


This dual intent doctrine is in the regulations for L-1 and H-1 permits, but is not specifically given to TN's. Right now, the INS generally treats TN's under the same doctrine. This could change. In fact, there seems to be a trend towards increased scrutiny of TNs with pending green card applications.

Here is a relevant quote from INS regulations:

The Service has, traditionally, considered applying for adjustment of status as relevant evidence in determining whether an alien has abandoned the requisite nonimmigrant intent. Section 214(b) of the Act does not, however, require the Service to hold this position as an absolute rule. So long as the alien clearly intends to comply with the requirements of his or her nonimmigrant status, the fact that the alien would like to become a permanent resident, if the law permits this, does not bar the alien's continued holding of a nonimmigrant status.[end quote]

If you're gonna take the TN path to a green card, make sure your lawyer knows the ins and outs. Its not a common path, and many lawyers get you trapped in the pitfalls, which almost happened to chongyip. Unlike chongyip, physiorafiq is not a concurrent filer, which is much much safer when applying while on a TN. The EAD should come in 3 months from the filing date, and if it does not, then he can get an interim EAD at the local office. If he filed in July, then he should be able to get one soon, and even if the TN gets denied then, you should be eligible for an interim EAD pretty soon, if not already.

physiorafiq, just keep on top of it, get your interim EAD as soon as you can, if the EAD is not approved yet and 90 days have gone by, and you'll be fine.
 
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Thanks CuriousGeorge, You are right, It happened last yeat and I applied for extension in April 2003 and got approval of TN in September 2003 with backdated i.e. according to expiray date of last one. as long as my application under process I am ok. I have just receive call from my spouse she has got her EAD and I am still waiting for mine. Cross fingers for me.
 
Dear
Any body have any idea , how long I have to wait, as I have mentioned that my wife already got her EAD and AP with date of Notice 10/14/2004 and my case is still pending. i am worried.
any idea what should I do?
 
You should get your TN very soon, and since your wife's EAD has arrived, you should get your EAD very soon also. If you filed for your TN extension on May 12th 2004, (for example, since you didn't mention an exact date) then if you don't get your EAD or your TN extension by Jan 4th, 2005 (in this example, gurus, correct me if I calculated the 240 days incorrectly, as I counted weekends, and holidays), then you will need to take a leave of absence from your job on Jan 4th, 2005 until either the TN or the EAD arrives. Since that date is still over 2 months away, I'm pretty confident that either your EAD or your TN extension will have arrived by then.
 
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