Overstaying in the US, banned for 10 years, becoming Canadian citizen.

gav_3601

New Member
Hi all,
I was overstaying my non-immigrant visa for 2 years before I left voluntarily less than 10 years ago.

Moved to Canada after I left the US and in the middle of becoming Canadian citizen.

As Canadian citizen, I don't need visa to travel to the US as visitor or business or transit, that said I'm wondering how the 10 years ban system works:

1. If I travel to the US WITHIN 10 years ban period, at the POE, when I give my Canadian passport, US POE system will be able to know that I am banned?

2. If I travel to the US AFTER 10 years ban, do I just go the POE, give my Canadian passport and they will let me in?

3. My son was born in the US so when he is 17 years old, he can sponsor me to be US green card holder and it will be AFTER the 10 years ban. That said, would the fact I was on 10 years ban affecting my green card application?

TIA!
 
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SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
1. Yes. It’s you that’s banned, not the passport. That‘a one of the reasons they use biometrics.

2. They may let you in, or they may not, if they think you will be an overstay risk again.
 

gav_3601

New Member
1. Yes. It’s you that’s banned, not the passport. That‘a one of the reasons they use biometrics.

OK, so, the system will automatically know that I am banned based on biometrics, name, etc and they will not let me in.

Awaiting the answer to question no. 2. Anyone?
 

gav_3601

New Member
1. Yes. It’s you that’s banned, not the passport. That‘a one of the reasons they use biometrics.

2. They may let you in, or they may not, if they think you will be an overstay risk again.

Follow up questions:

1. When I enter the US (and I never leave since then except when I left the country for good), it was prior to the biometrics system, so, do you think the system will still know just based on information from the passport?

2. After the 10 year ban, would I be completely off the list? Or, is there audit trail which the reason why you said they may think I'm at risk to be overstaying again. This mean, even AFTER 10 year ban, they still can tell that I was on the list?
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
Overstay is on your record for the rest of your life.

Not sure what you mean by “before biometrics”, if you are still subject to a ten year ban at present after a two year overstay then they would have taken at least two of your fingerprints on entry.
 

gav_3601

New Member
Overstay is on your record for the rest of your life.

Not sure what you mean by “before biometrics”, if you are still subject to a ten year ban at present after a two year overstay then they would have taken at least two of your fingerprints on entry.

OK, so, 10 year ban is a list of people who are banned to enter the country and people can be off of this list so they are no longer banned but their overstay record will stay forever with them.

What I mean is this, they started taken fingerprints sometime in mid 2000's, correct? Prior to that, fingerprints was not a requirement at POE.

I came to US before they require fingerprints at POE and never left the country until I left for good. That said, I don't think they have my fingerprints in the system if they never took it in the first place. I enter the country in 2004, was on a valid visa until I was overstaying it. Did fingerprints/biometrics already in place in 2004?
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
OK, so, 10 year ban is a list of people who are banned to enter the country and people can be off of this list so they are no longer banned but their overstay record will stay forever with them.

What I mean is this, they started taken fingerprints sometime in mid 2000's, correct? Prior to that, fingerprints was not a requirement at POE.

I came to US before they require fingerprints at POE and never left the country until I left for good. That said, I don't think they have my fingerprints in the system if they never took it in the first place. I enter the country in 2004, was on a valid visa until I was overstaying it. Did fingerprints/biometrics already in place in 2004?
yes, fingerprinting was in place by 2004.
 

newacct

Well-Known Member
They know when you entered the US. The US has no exit checks, and they might not know when you left, if you didn't turn in your I-94. So, they might not know whether you overstayed or not. However, the next time you enter the US, they might see that they don't know when you left the last time, and they can ask you to tell them (and prove to them) the date you left. At that point, you will have to tell the truth, and they will discover that you have a ban.
 

gav_3601

New Member
They know when you entered the US. The US has no exit checks, and they might not know when you left, if you didn't turn in your I-94. So, they might not know whether you overstayed or not. However, the next time you enter the US, they might see that they don't know when you left the last time, and they can ask you to tell them (and prove to them) the date you left. At that point, you will have to tell the truth, and they will discover that you have a ban.

I did turn in my I-94 to the airline agents. Not sure if they did hand it over to the CBP?

I'm not originally from a country with US visa waiver, therefore, if I don't have canadian passport, I have to apply for visa at US embassy. That said, I'm assuming your comment referring to if I'm entering the country using Canadian passport and that's what will happen at POE. Is that correct?
 

Amberleaf

Active Member
if you turned in your I-94 to airline, they will have given to CBP.
Also note, all airlines share passenger manifests with CBP with full legal names, date of birth, country of citizenship, passport number, etc.
Although USA does not have formal exit controls they do record all people leaving the country by air through airline manifests.
As for exiting by land border crossings, the Canadian and Mexican immigration officials do share full legal names, date of birth, country of citizenship, passport number, etc, with US authorities, so when you enter Canada or Mexico by land they have a record of your exit from the USA by land. (for Canadian Citizens this was implemented fairly recently, not sure about Mexico).

On your first entry to the US under your new Canadian Passport, they may be able to link your legal name, date of birth, country of birth (on Canadian passport) with your identity from your old country passport and determine you overstayed last time. (finger prints may or may not be needed).

You know the rules for 10 year ban and you know they apply to you. Why risk it. Wait your 10 years.

When the 10 years have passed bring all the evidence that you left in the mid 2000's and evidence you comply with all current immigration rules. (strong ties to Canada, evidence of job in Canada, evidence of home ownership or rental lease in Canada, hotel reservations for your stay in US, etc). You want to show your visit to US is just temporary and you should be fine for B2 visitor status.

If still in doubt consult an attorney.
 

gav_3601

New Member
if you turned in your I-94 to airline, they will have given to CBP.
Also note, all airlines share passenger manifests with CBP with full legal names, date of birth, country of citizenship, passport number, etc.
Although USA does not have formal exit controls they do record all people leaving the country by air through airline manifests.
As for exiting by land border crossings, the Canadian and Mexican immigration officials do share full legal names, date of birth, country of citizenship, passport number, etc, with US authorities, so when you enter Canada or Mexico by land they have a record of your exit from the USA by land. (for Canadian Citizens this was implemented fairly recently, not sure about Mexico).

On your first entry to the US under your new Canadian Passport, they may be able to link your legal name, date of birth, country of birth (on Canadian passport) with your identity from your old country passport and determine you overstayed last time. (finger prints may or may not be needed).

You know the rules for 10 year ban and you know they apply to you. Why risk it. Wait your 10 years.

When the 10 years have passed bring all the evidence that you left in the mid 2000's and evidence you comply with all current immigration rules. (strong ties to Canada, evidence of job in Canada, evidence of home ownership or rental lease in Canada, hotel reservations for your stay in US, etc). You want to show your visit to US is just temporary and you should be fine for B2 visitor status.

If still in doubt consult an attorney.

Thx for the explanation. I did want to wait for 10 years but just wondering what will happen at POE after 10 years.

It looks like there is only one way to find out, go to POE with canadian passport, bring what you have mentioned (home ownership, etc) and see if they let me in or not.
 

Q45

Registered Users (C)
gav_3601, have you had the chance to go to a POE and try to see if you could be granted entry based on your pass immigration violation and current citizenship?
 

gav_3601

New Member
gav_3601, have you had the chance to go to a POE and try to see if you could be granted entry based on your pass immigration violation and current citizenship?

No.

My 10 year will end in 2022. So, I don't want to even try just to be declined or maybe even detained. Not sure if anyone knows if I go to POE with Canadian passport and they know that I am banned to enter the country, would I be detained?

I just realize, Amberleaf's comment above mentioned B2 visitor status. Canadian citizen do not need visitor visa to enter the US so, not sure how, and if, that will played out at the POE.
 

newacct

Well-Known Member
No.

My 10 year will end in 2022. So, I don't want to even try just to be declined or maybe even detained. Not sure if anyone knows if I go to POE with Canadian passport and they know that I am banned to enter the country, would I be detained?

I just realize, Amberleaf's comment above mentioned B2 visitor status. Canadian citizen do not need visitor visa to enter the US so, not sure how, and if, that will played out at the POE.
I think if you don't want to be detained, you can fly to the US from a Canadian airport with US preclearance. Since US preclearance is on Canadian soil, they cannot detain you unless you have broken Canadian law (however, lying to the officer is considered breaking Canadian law).
 

gav_3601

New Member
I think if you don't want to be detained, you can fly to the US from a Canadian airport with US preclearance. Since US preclearance is on Canadian soil, they cannot detain you unless you have broken Canadian law (however, lying to the officer is considered breaking Canadian law).

Yes, you are correct, US immigration is stationed at Canadian airport for pre-clearance.

I still don't think I want to waste my money on the airline ticket because even after the 10 year, no one really knows what will happen when I try to get to the US with Canadian citizenship. Does the immigration system is so sophisticated to know based on my information about my past immigration record? There is only one way to find out which is by trying. From cost perspective, instead by air, I probably will try by land.
 

Amberleaf

Active Member
>I just realize, Amberleaf's comment above mentioned B2 visitor status. Canadian citizen do not need visitor visa to enter the US so, not sure how, and if, that will played out at the POE.

Canadians do require B2 visitor status. Every entry into the US you are requesting either B1 business status or B2 visitor status (or some other status like TN or H1B or L1, etc).
Canadian Citizens do not need to apply for B1 or B2 visa in advance. You just show up at the POE or Airport Pre-Clearence and request the appropriate status.
Based on your answers they will either admit you or not. They may or may not stamp your passport, but your passport number is recorded in their system.
Watch "Border Wars" or others on YOUTUBE. Lots of examples of people being denied entry into the US.(mostly for lying or hiding the truth)
 

gav_3601

New Member
>I just realize, Amberleaf's comment above mentioned B2 visitor status. Canadian citizen do not need visitor visa to enter the US so, not sure how, and if, that will played out at the POE.

Canadians do require B2 visitor status. Every entry into the US you are requesting either B1 business status or B2 visitor status (or some other status like TN or H1B or L1, etc).
Canadian Citizens do not need to apply for B1 or B2 visa in advance. You just show up at the POE or Airport Pre-Clearence and request the appropriate status.
Based on your answers they will either admit you or not. They may or may not stamp your passport, but your passport number is recorded in their system.
Watch "Border Wars" or others on YOUTUBE. Lots of examples of people being denied entry into the US.(mostly for lying or hiding the truth)

Ah, I never knew that. Thx!!
 

gav_3601

New Member
fingerprints...

I will post my experience 2 years from now (when my 10 years is expired) and you'll know the answer :D

FYI, I agree that fingerprints are the most logical answer.

20 years ago, I know some (if not many) people who overstaying their visitor status in the US, left the country voluntarily and able to re-enter the country. These are the people from a country where they need to go to US embassy to get visitor visa. Some re-entering the country using their still valid visa but some other went to the US embassy to get their visitor visa because their original visa was expired already and not only US embassy approving their visa application but also, they can pass immigration at POE.

I understand, this was 20 years ago (or maybe more) and today, we can say that back then, US immigration system was not as sophisticated as today. However, back then, the general consensus was, US immigration system was already sophisticated enough that if you were overstaying, you won't be able to get visitor visa at the embassy much less re-entering the country passing immigration at POE, yet, some people were doing just that.

In retrospect, we can say that US didn't have the tool at that time (fingerprint) to know whether we were overstaying?

That said, I personally won't waste my time, energy, and money for trying to go to the US before the 10 years expired, at the same time, everything that has been said here is what common sense and logic is telling us (which I agree) but, there is only one way to find the true answer, by really trying to go the US after 10 years (or before for those who really want to try it).
 
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Q45

Registered Users (C)
No.

My 10 year will end in 2022. So, I don't want to even try just to be declined or maybe even detained. Not sure if anyone knows if I go to POE with Canadian passport and they know that I am banned to enter the country, would I be detained?

I just realize, Amberleaf's comment above mentioned B2 visitor status. Canadian citizen do not need visitor visa to enter the US so, not sure how, and if, that will played out at the POE.

Ahhh, I got it. For some reason, I thought you were past your 10-year ban. I agree with the comments regarding your questions. Even though you left the US before they were using fingerprints, the ID (passport) that you will have to present at the POE will have your identifiable details i.e. name, DOB, POB, etc which will be matched to what is in their database. They'll definitely ask about your previous US visits. It just makes sense to wait until the 10 years are up then try entering. Good luck.
 
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