Is a COC needed for CCA? And how does SS, USCIS, etc work together?

B

Bluegrass1

Registered Users (C)
Hi everyone, I have quick question that I was curious about regarding the CCA (Child Citizenship Act) and whether or not a COC is necessary. I had posted a few months ago asking if you all think our child (who we adopted from overseas) needed a COC since he is already a citizen according to the Child Citizenship Act (CCA). We already have a US Passport for him and we've updated Social Security so they know he is a US Citizen. It seemed the advice and thoughts were divided among those who thought a COC was necessary and those who thought that just having a US Passport was enough.

I called USCIS customer service and asked the person I talked to, and she said that the US Passport was all we needed. Anyway, in the adoption community, people are also divided over whether or not to get a COC for their children. The people (in the adoption community) who believe the COC is crucial usually use this reason: they say that the people who issue the US Passports (state dept) and the USCIS do not really communicate the update; so they say that when you get the child's US passport (which is usually in the child's new adoptive name, not the birth name that is on the green card) that the state department does not notify the USCIS of the change and that the child is now a US Citizen, and that the only way to have the child removed from USCIS list as a permanent resident in their old name, is to get a COC. In other words, they are saying that's the only way USCIS updates the records.

Here's why I doubt this. First of all, surely the 2 departments communicate. Secondly, I think that when you apply for a SS Card, the SS people check everything against a database from USCIS to verify citizenship (isnt that right?), so by using a US Passport (from the state dept.) to verify citizenship at the SS office, wouldnt that mean that the name change and new citizenship status is in the USCIS database too? Otherwise you wouldnt be able to use a US Passport to verify citizenship with the SS folks would you?

Just wondering. I guess I should go ahead and just get the COC for our child to be certain that I've taken care of everything. But I've had several folks (including a the customer service rep I talked to at USCIS, and an attorney) tell me that the US Passport is all we need. Even the USCIS website about the Child Citizenship Act says that the COC is optional. Our son is the most important thing in our lives and I just want to make sure I have everything taken care of so he will have a wonderful life in this great country. I'm so thankful he is a US Citizen, and I am very blessed to be his dad.

I know you all know alot more about this than me so I just wanted your thoughts on how it all works together. Thanks and have a great day!
 
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I speak from personal exprerience here..

I became a US citizen last year along with my wife. My son who was born overseas derived US citizenship through the CCA. I got a US passport but have not obtained a CoC for him. I think CoC is a waste of money and time, the law does not require it and neither does USCIS. I am not sure why USCIS still has the CoC since a US passport is all that is required to prove US citizenship.

If you need additional proof of US citizenship then you can get a passport card which costs only $10 extra for a kid. In case you lose the passport, the card can be used to prove US citizenship when applying for a replacement passport.

Last year I traveled overseas with my son and when we returned the CBP officer commented that my son's previous record of green card holder will be updated to show his US citizenship. Therefore my guess is that CBP will update citizenship status in USCIS records when your son travels using his new US passport.
 
Although a US Passport is bonafide proof of US Citizenship, I am of the opinion that you should go ahead and get the COC. I know of some specific jobs that require a COC as proof of Citizenship, whereas a US Passport for these specific jobs is not adequate.
 
wong561hb said:
Although a US Passport is bonafide proof of US Citizenship, I am of the opinion that you should go ahead and get the COC. I know of some specific jobs that require a COC as proof of Citizenship, whereas a US Passport for these specific jobs is not adequate.
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Any employer or agency that requires a CoC instead of a US passport is ignorant of federal laws. Moreover, a CoC is NOT an acceptable document to prove US citizenship for employment purposes under USCIS I-9 requirements. See employer's handbook at http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/m-274.pdf
 
wong561hb said:
Although a US Passport is bonafide proof of US Citizenship, I am of the opinion that you should go ahead and get the COC. I know of some specific jobs that require a COC as proof of Citizenship, whereas a US Passport for these specific jobs is not adequate.
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Which jobs are these which require a naturalization certificate? :confused: I am aware that only US govt jobs require US citizenship, and no company can require anyone to be a US citizen. The only requirement from private companies are those with federal contracting dealing with classified material, and a passport is usually sufficient. I am yet to come across any country where a government issued passport is an unacceptable form of citizenship? :rolleyes:
 
To the OP -

I think you are wasting time and energy by discussing this topic over and over. If money is no object and you are of type "abundantly cautious" person, then go ahead and apply for it otherwise forget about it. Thats all.

The law says passport is enough proof. But more and more local agencies (e.g., texas dmv) demanding a certificate since the passport only says "US National" and NOT "US Citizen" ... every one knows they are not following the federal law but while they correct this practice (by themselves or by a court order) people have to go through tough time.
 
I think this is a bit of a waste of time. The OP already asked the same question about four months ago. I would expect that by this time it would be clear. There is no harm in getting the certificate and might be useful in the future. If you have the money go for it, but please make up your mind :)
 
Al Southner said:
Which jobs are these which require a naturalization certificate? :confused: I am aware that only US govt jobs require US citizenship, and no company can require anyone to be a US citizen. The only requirement from private companies are those with federal contracting dealing with classified material, and a passport is usually sufficient. I am yet to come across any country where a government issued passport is an unacceptable form of citizenship? :rolleyes:
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May be NSA, CIA, DoD ... just to make sure one didn't obtain the passport fraudulently.

Also, here in USA there is a concept of "US National" ... I dont know the full details but the following wiki has the answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law

Someone in the forum mentioned that French passport is not a proof of French citizenship ...
 
It's pretty much all the same since a few months ago. I guess money is still not a problem. nkm is against COC, I am mostly for it. I think I had mentioned in the past that there is minimal hassle to do this process with USCIS. At most you'll be called to show at their office with your child. It will definitely be easier to do it now, than many years down the road when documents are harder to find. It might never be needed, but who can predict the future. Now people understand that he is a child and has derived citizenship. When he turns forty and goes to some agency with the passport and they see country of birth abroad they might ask about certificate of naturalization, not knowing about the automatic citizenship obtained many years ago. It might be good to avoid the hassle having a certificate. Might not be needed by law, but might be useful.
 
Huracan said:
It's pretty much all the same since a few months ago. I guess money is still not a problem. nkm is against COC, I am mostly for it. I think I had mentioned in the past that there is minimal hassle to do this process with USCIS. At most you'll be called to show at their office with your child. It will definitely be easier to do it now, than many years down the road when documents are harder to find. It might never be needed, but who can predict the future. Now people understand that he is a child and has derived citizenship. When he turns forty and goes to some agency with the passport and they see country of birth abroad they might ask about certificate of naturalization, not knowing about the automatic citizenship obtained many years ago. It might be good to avoid the hassle having a certificate. Might not be needed by law, but might be useful.
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Hey guys: first of all, I apologize for asking the same question again. I just need to make up my mind and go ahead and order the coc. I was just hoping that the agencies updated each other. Sorry again for asking same question. I really appreciate everyone here and this is a great place for information. I was hoping all the paperwork was behind us but I guess the smart safe move is to go ahead and get the coc. Hope everyone has a great day, and thanks very much.
 
If you don't personally think the certificate is worth it, at least let your children know about it when they are old enough to understand, so they will be aware of it and can decide for themselves if they want to pursue it on their own as adults.

The CoC is no longer used for I-9 employment authorization, but it is still used for other purposes such as voter registration verification or applying for a driver's license (if the individual does not have or chooses not to show a passport). And unlike passports which are only valid for 10 years, the certificate does not expire.
 
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:eek:
ksam said:
May be NSA, CIA, DoD ... just to make sure one didn't obtain the passport fraudulently.

Also, here in USA there is a concept of "US National" ... I dont know the full details but the following wiki has the answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law

Someone in the forum mentioned that French passport is not a proof of French citizenship ...
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Ksam,

You are missing the point there friend. :eek:NSA or DoD can easily verify the information provided by the applicant. I completed applications for a classified position about a year ago, and they ask a whole lot of information which they will go back and research for accuracy. The fact that you present a naturalized certifate doesn't make any difference at all. You are assuming that the certificate isn't susceptable to fraudalent activities, I would encourage you to wise up on that one. Fraud is everywhere, NSA or DoD or any federal contractor verifies any information provided by an applicant, your word will never be trusted...dude.:) A friend of mine waited about 9 months to be cleared by the govt, won't disclose the agency.

As for the French, we all know what is ailing them....red wine and cowardice...:eek: The concept of US national is hogwash, no one has a clue on what it means and hence we have people chosing to vote because they are considered nationals, but not citizens. I think Sean Hannity came up with this idea and Rush Limbaugh (fat idiot) is promoting it with hate...:rolleyes:
 
Thanks guys for the thoughts and advice again. Sorry again for asking same question, just wanna make sure I do everything correctly. I appreciate you all.
 
Lets all hope that Mr.Bluegrass1 made his decision this time and he/she will apply for the doc and be done with it. :)
 
Al Southner said:
:eek:

Ksam,

You are missing the point there friend. :eek:NSA or DoD can easily verify the information provided by the applicant. I completed applications for a classified position about a year ago, and they ask a whole lot of information which they will go back and research for accuracy. The fact that you present a naturalized certifate doesn't make any difference at all. You are assuming that the certificate isn't susceptable to fraudalent activities, I would encourage you to wise up on that one. Fraud is everywhere, NSA or DoD or any federal contractor verifies any information provided by an applicant, your word will never be trusted...dude.:) A friend of mine waited about 9 months to be cleared by the govt, won't disclose the agency.

As for the French, we all know what is ailing them....red wine and cowardice...:eek: The concept of US national is hogwash, no one has a clue on what it means and hence we have people chosing to vote because they are considered nationals, but not citizens. I think Sean Hannity came up with this idea and Rush Limbaugh (fat idiot) is promoting it with hate...:rolleyes:
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Well said. NSA/DoD can probably look up information without you giving anything and can dig up stuff you never knew existed. Heck, they could even print a certificate for you if they like you enough :eek:
 
I was definitely referring to jobs in the Federal Govt. when I said the COC is useful. I know of a specific incident where the NY Port Authority asked for the COC as proof of US Citizenship...either way it's a moot point since it's been discussed at length in this forum.
 
wong561hb said:
I was definitely referring to jobs in the Federal Govt. when I said the COC is useful. I know of a specific incident where the NY Port Authority asked for the COC as proof of US Citizenship...either way it's a moot point since it's been discussed at length in this forum.
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I remember the incident you're talking about. If I recall correctly, the Port Authority rescinded this absurd requirement and agreed to take the applicant's passport.
 
Al Southner said:
:eek:

Ksam,

You are missing the point there friend. :eek:NSA or DoD can easily verify the information provided by the applicant. I completed applications for a classified position about a year ago, and they ask a whole lot of information which they will go back and research for accuracy. The fact that you present a naturalized certifate doesn't make any difference at all. You are assuming that the certificate isn't susceptable to fraudalent activities, I would encourage you to wise up on that one. Fraud is everywhere, NSA or DoD or any federal contractor verifies any information provided by an applicant, your word will never be trusted...dude.:) A friend of mine waited about 9 months to be cleared by the govt, won't disclose the agency.

As for the French, we all know what is ailing them....red wine and cowardice...:eek: The concept of US national is hogwash, no one has a clue on what it means and hence we have people chosing to vote because they are considered nationals, but not citizens. I think Sean Hannity came up with this idea and Rush Limbaugh (fat idiot) is promoting it with hate...:rolleyes:
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Relax Southner. I wrote "may be" in there ... sure I have no clue about their app process. never applied and don't plan to anyways. I understand they can dig up anything they want on anyone ...

As far as the French citizenship goes, I was simply re-collecting some other post where someone mentioned about the proof of French citizenship. I was just giving you an example for your quote in a previous post - "I am yet to come across any country where a government issued passport is an unacceptable form of citizenship? "

Looks like you have pent up animosity towards right wing talk show hosts ... take it easy dude.

By the way, the OP chose "Bluegrass" name may be because he/she is from Kentucky state ... And Kentucky is known as the “Bluegrass State” ... my guess
 
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