Here is the scoop behind changing jobs from two attorneys

gin

Registered Users (C)
I had a conversation with two attorneys (they are Members of the American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA), The American Bar Association (ABA), and so on…) from a very big law firm (not naming them because I didn’t get consent from them to publish their response) and this is what they have to say:

“The employment-based AOS applicant intends to accept the permanent job listed in the I-140 at the time the AOS is approved. There is no specific time frame listed in the law that the applicant must remain in that job. Some practitioners say one year, others give different advice, but there is no specific time set forth in the law. This is a fact-specific inquiry and may arise at the naturalization stage. <My company>’s policy is that its employees remain in the I-140 job for at least 4 - 6 months after the AOS approval.”

FWIW, this is a grey area and it’s better to stick with the job for at least few months (4 - 6 months according to my attorneys) before jumping ship. Note, according to my attorney, the job change issue *may* arise at the naturalization stage. Why put yourself in that position if you have a chance to avoid it?

I used to argue with JoeF on his *6-month-rule-of-thumb* story (he used to vehemently refer to it) and believe it or not, he is not misguiding anyone even though he might be repeating the same thing over and over and over again (like an energizer bunny). But, if you think about it, what has he got to achieve by doing this? I, for one, am amazed at his tenacity and free time to post as often as he does and, I think, he is genuinely trying to inform people and it’s up to each individual to believe it or not!

After all, smart ones learn from other's mistakes and some from their own. To each his own.

This thread is just for informational puproses only and not a basis for flaming each other. Peace!
 
vitalsigns said:
So cheer up and there will be no flame wars. Just do not push your point too much. Particularly when everybody can check this issue on their own.
I don't know what you mean by every one can check on their own? If they can, will they be here? And, who put you in charge of all the immigrants. Cool down.

If you already quit, then it doesn't apply to you as you may or may not have committed a mistake. Who knows, only time will tell as Congress is prone to changing laws as required?

This thread is for those who are thinking of quitting and not for those who have done it already.

Now, I see your point. You quit already and want to garner support by seeing who else is with you. Believe me, my friend, this is not an investment option. Instead, a very delicate issue. You may or may not get affected. That is what makes this all interesting, doesn’t it? Don't try to propagate false info to support your case. That to me is really sick!

Why can't you accept the fact that it's a grey area and it can go either way? Better safe than sorry, right? If I were you, I would opine as:

1. If you have already quit, just try to gather as much info as possible on how to defend yourself if you are ever put in a situation (99% probability that you may not get into that but there is that 1% chance and that is what we are talking about) to explain the job change.

2. If you are thinking of quitting, just stay for at least 6 more months as one must have spent enough time waiting for GC and 6 more months is not going to kill it or at least, think of it as the time spent waiting on the *infamous* FBI name check!
 
vitalsigns said:
If somebody really wants to show care of people here, they should PM those who ask questions about the time-frame. The reason for this is that some have already quit early. There's no turning point for them. When they come here they get paranoid reading about all kinds of crazy time-frames. PM them and let others live without worry.
Just informing people about this would spoil the happiness of those who have quit already? What kind of sick statement is this? This is just ignorance at its best! If you are ignorant, tough luck. But please don't preach others as if it doesn’t even warrant any consideration. If it was a black and white situation, we won't be talking about in *n* number of threads, will we?
 
vitalsigns said:
That's great. I have asked 5-6 different immigration lawyers on www.allexperts.com and they gave me a wide range of answers. I am posting the link again to some of the answers for anyone to check out: http://boards.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?p=1282874#post1282874
You get free advice from Allexperts.com and there is a famous saying: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I posted the info that I got from *real* attorneys who have thousands of clients and provide services to my employer (one of the biggest companies in the world). If I ever get in to trouble for a job change related issue, I can always show that I got the info, that I posted earlier, from the attorney and prove my case. Can you do the same with the Allexperts.com advice?
 
gin said:
You get free advice from Allexperts.com and there is a famous saying: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I posted the info that I got from *real* attorneys who have thousands of clients and provide services to my employer (one of the biggest companies in the world). If I ever get in to trouble for a job change related issue, I can always show that I got the info, that I posted earlier, from the attorney and prove my case. Can you do the same with the Allexperts.com advice?


Good job gin....and thanks for sharing the information that you got from your attorneys with us......

Folks, as gin clearly said in his earlier post, better be safe than sorry.....already you waited so long to get your GC, why not another 6 months to avoid unknown complications during citizenship process...
 
gin said:
If I ever get in to trouble for a job change related issue, I can always show that I got the info, that I posted earlier, from the attorney and prove my case.

Keep in mind that your attorney told you so isn't a valid defense or proof of anything, no matter how prestigious he or she may be.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Keep in mind that your attorney told you so isn't a valid defense or proof of anything, no matter how prestigious he or she may be.
I know that but at least I can prove that I didn't do something without consulting an attorney. My point is that I didn't act without consulting any one and instead of saying to the Judge, "Oh, I don't know... I got the advice from some site called Allexperts.com, which may or may not exist at that time", I can give them the attorneys email along with the contact details or better yet, my attorneys should be able to defend me if it ever comes to that.
 
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Do you mean

Gin,

Do you mean that I can consult a big attorney and change job 1 day after getting my GC and tell the jury that I took advice before changing so I am not guilty of "Intent:....


The day you took advice to change job.... on the same day your intent for Permanently staying with the employer is gone through the toilet...


--World
 
Intent misintrepreted by everyone including attorneys

Guys,


Whats this intent ..... Everobody is comparing this changing jobs to Visitor visa - F1 conversion as soon as somebody lands...

Looks like everybody forgot what we learnt in kindergarten.... Dont compare oranges and apples...

In case of Visitor - F1 conversion... there was obviously a case to prove by CIS.

But asking GCs to work for some company for some time or forever is like bondage... BONDAGE..SLAVERY... and all the synonyms were abolished in US long time ago....

If somebody after getting GC contests for presidency then you can say that the intent was something else when applied for (or approved ) GC.

DONT TELL ME THAT GC is another form of bringing SLAVES to USA.. .



---World
 
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Hey how abou this....

Lets pool DOLLARS and use the dollar amount to make congress come clean(or clear) on the above grey area. May be 100K is enough...

TRUST ME...99% of the Congressmen know what this country stands for...true... 9/11 changed alot of equations.... But not to the extent of going back to the old days of slavery....

Nobody... an alien.. or an immigrant... or a citizen....is allowed to be a slave of anybody HERE....

Statue of liberty states that.....
 
Permanent Employee... Vs Full Time Employee

I dont think even they use the phrase "permanent employee"... I havent heard of that... We call permanent employee....They call full time employee....
 
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worldmonitor_1 said:
Gin,

Do you mean that I can consult a big attorney and change job 1 day after getting my GC and tell the jury that I took advice before changing so I am not guilty of "Intent:....

The day you took advice to change job.... on the same day your intent for Permanently staying with the employer is gone through the toilet...
--World
So, I guess you didn't read my message properly. I mentioned that one has to stay for at least 4 - 6 months as that's what my attorneys were recommending and NOT just one day after the GC. Just asking around to find out whether there are any issues do not mean that intent is gone through the toilet. Let's say that I ask an insurance company about the procedure to follow when I commit an accident, does it mean that I am *intending* to commit an accident? Geez, gimme a break!

Competent attorneys are not going to throw out some random numbers but to guide you in the safest/correct path. If you don't want to take it, fine by me. I am not the one who is going to get in to the job change issue as I am close to crossing the year mark with my sponsored employer and no plans on jumping ship whatsoever.

I saw tons of threads about the job change issues and thought, why not ask the company attorneys – after all, my company pays for their services and see what they have to say! I just reported their message and at least some one will benefit from it rather than flaming each other on this delicate issue.
 
vitalsigns said:
Very good point!!! Ha, ha. To bad I didn't notice it first. Gin quit his employer long time ago probably a week after he got his card! So he made sure he consulted the lawyers just in case. And now he's trying to cover his guilt up by being overly zealous about the intent.
Good point!
Well, let's see. After GC approval, I am very close to crossing the one year mark with my GC sponsored employer and been with them for almost 5 years now. No plans, whatsoever, to quit them any time in the future. Maybe, I will stay with them till I get my Citizenship if all goes well.

Truth is, some times, bitter and don't snipe at the messenger. Grow up!
 
gin said:
Well, let's see. After GC approval, I am very close to crossing the one year mark with my GC sponsored employer and been with them for almost 5 years now. No plans, whatsoever, to quit them any time in the future. Maybe, I will stay with them till I get my Citizenship if all goes well.

Truth is, some times, bitter and don't snipe at the messenger. Grow up!


Gin,

Your points looks so "bueatiful". The same point looks so "bitter" for somebody else. So, it all depends on "situation", "employer" and so many other factors. Probably you "love" your employer. So you want to stick with your employer until you get your citizenship or may be forever.

also, you can definitely expect your company lawyer to give you that advice. He is afterall company's laywer. There are so many reputed lawyers are spokes person of that company. They speak what company wants.

If you have your brother as lawyer, would he say the same thing, Probably not.

But, one thing I agree with you. It is always "better be safe than sorry".

So, if it doesn't harm you (or) you are "OK" with your employer, why not stick with them for 6 months. It all depends on person's "Situation".
 
luckyandcurious said:
also, you can definitely expect your company lawyer to give you that advice. He is afterall company's laywer. There are so many reputed lawyers are spokes person of that company. They speak what company wants.

If you have your brother as lawyer, would he say the same thing, Probably not.
I don't think the attorneys are colluding with my employer in this matter as my employer is one of the biggest in the world and I don't think they will stoop to the level as some of the *desi* companies. I am basing this solely on my experience with them so far and they really do not care whether I am a non-immigrant or an immigrant or a citizen, for that matter. That was how I was treated so far. Maybe, I got lucky... Who knows!

I requested the info from two attorneys instead of one to make sure that they are in agreement and they were! If the attorneys had mentioned that I have to be with the company for a year or more, I agree... Maybe, something is fishy. But, they are just giving roughly the same estimate as most of the lawyers/websites, etc. After all, big companies are afraid that some disgruntled employee might sue them for making them stay longer and make easy money. You get the drift?

If my brother is my lawyer, I would expect him to give me the truth and not give false hope and screw my happiness in the future.

Anyways, I am done discussing this topic and good luck to all. I got lot of good info from this site and thought of doing my part by asking my attorneys... That’s it!
 
Gin kids are not supposed to say growup...

gin said:
So, I guess you didn't read my message properly. I mentioned that one has to stay for at least 4 - 6 months as that's what my attorneys were recommending and NOT just one day after the GC.

Are you crazy.... Did I say you have to leave after one day... Dont imagine things...Your famous, big, company's attorneys are dreaming about 4-6 months.... Trust me... They dreamt a same dream.... There are other big attorney's who dreamt 9-12 months dream.....



gin said:
Just asking around to find out whether there are any issues do not mean that intent is gone through the toilet. Let's say that I ask an insurance company about the procedure to follow when I commit an accident, does it mean that I am *intending* to commit an accident? Geez, gimme a break!

Comon Kid... It doesnt mean you are intending to know the procedure to follow to if at all you end up in an accident (On a lighter note...ppl wont COMMIT accident.it happens)... Similarly When you ask the attorney when you can leave the employer.. you are intending to know the procedure to leave your employer... meaning .. you intended to leave the employer....

gin said:
Competent attorneys are not going to throw out some random numbers but to guide you in the safest/correct path.

That you know and probably I know... But.. jury I guess might be not aware of that...

gin said:
If you don't want to take it, fine by me. I am not the one who is going to get in to the job change issue as I am close to crossing the year mark with my sponsored employer and no plans on jumping ship whatsoever.

I saw tons of threads about the job change issues and thought, why not ask the company attorneys – after all, my company pays for their services and see what they have to say!

Since you are not in the job change issue...I think you havent given enough thought.... I understand your half-baked talk..

gin said:
I just reported their message and at least some one will benefit from it rather than flaming each other on this delicate issue.

Thanks for the help.... Its really of some help to atleast some population


Why did you ignore my ... "SLAVERY" talk....
 
Gin Message

gin said:
Well, let's see. After GC approval, I am very close to crossing the one year mark with my GC sponsored employer and been with them for almost 5 years now. No plans, whatsoever, to quit them any time in the future. Maybe, I will stay with them till I get my Citizenship if all goes well.

Truth is, some times, bitter and don't snipe at the messenger. Grow up!


Stay with that employer.. Good for you.... But dont come here and say that ..."I spoke to two of my companys attorneys (anyway company is paying them) and they said you have to stick to the employer until you get your citizenship.... ".
 
fuuny!!! the people who start the thread all nice - telling no flame war and such - few threads down the lane gets into one.
such strong commitment to oneself :rolleyes:

anyways - iam getting into this cycle of reaffirming people who reaffirm things that already been reaffirmed.
yes in countless threads before it has been told- that if you have a choice of staying with a company for long - STAY.

if u cannot and are already in the situation - then what to do ?? thats the real question.

- may be we should have a footnote -disclaimer stating the fact for people who have choice to stay with company. ( i have one down)

the real problem is the threads that have been created exclusively for the second scenario has been hijacked by people who say " if i save one person form not quitting the company before 6 montsh i have done my job".

I see this thread/forum as serving two purposes.
1. people who dont know much about a situation (dont have time to actually go and read in USCIS website) coming here and getting facts
2. "intellignet" discussions in certain grey areas.

some "gurus" as they are called should be applauded for doing the first- because a timely advice (pointing to a established fact/law/rule) must have helped a lot of people. ( i concede with my work load i cant do that- but some people do- which is good)
but just because they give u this timely answers does NOT rubberstamp their views. thie opinion is worth -only as an opinion - these socalled gurus should realize that some people might take their opinions very serioulsy because they seemed to be good in the 1st case(pointing to a fact).
thats were i differ.
i suggest people to carry this(or ur one version) footnote/disclaimer in their email disucssions on this issue so that people(who coem new to this forum) know which issue ur curious about.

FOOTNOTE/DISCALIMER:
People who have a choice to stay with a company for some months after they get their GC - should do so , for common sense dictates that IF there may be a problem regarding this in future you have erred in the side of caution. (pls allow the other disucssions to flourish and avoid stating this fact which is well derived from thousands of inputs from members like you in this forum)
 
TheEnquirer said:
FOOTNOTE/DISCALIMER:
People who have a choice to stay with a company for some months after they get their GC - should do so , for common sense dictates that IF there may be a problem regarding this in future you have erred in the side of caution. (pls allow the other disucssions to flourish and avoid stating this fact which is well derived from thousands of inputs from members like you in this forum)
Very Good suggestion.
It could have been still better if you replace like this ..
'People who have a choice to stay with a company for some months after they get their GC - **should **do so ..'
Replace--'People who have a choice to stay with a company for some months after they get their GC -** may do so**...'. ;)
How about-Also you may add at the end --
**Still you can change jobs as u wish, if you think there is no risk as per existing law in your specific case and as since ,seemingly/knowingly, there is no case law so far in the US courts /BIA/AAO on this for GCs/naturalization or there are no guide lines from CIS for clear interpretation of law.So you are the decision maker for your self facing the consequences if any(if any thing at all) and till any of the above really is available**

.Period. ;)
 
Ok

**Still you can change jobs as u wish said:
I think, change of job inside the same area of ocupation is OK, if your asked during naturalization , you just cite AC21. it would be difficult, almost impossible for CIS to vindicate "bad intent"
But if someone already quit.
How about future imployment with sponsor?
How soon after GC I have to join/
what if i wait 6mo-1yr-2yr?
what will they have to say/
 
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