Does "Draft" applicable to PR's/naturalised citizens

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
Sr/jr/ members, whats your take on this issue??

Can PR say no to draft ??(PR might give up his/her GC, if required) And does law gives PR such choice or not??

This might be very sensitive issue for PR's under 26 especially...(And might be for others too). So knowing answer to above q/s is very important.

"AW" suggests "Run AWAY" stratergy, but everybody has lot of more at stake here in US than just lives, like family, schooling,home,Bank A/c,investments, commitments etc. So there has to be some respectable way out to somebody who don't want draft... Please share your comments
 
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AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
qwertyisback said:
Sr/jr/ members, whats your take on this issue??

Can PR say no to draft ??(PR might give up his/her GC, if required) And does law gives PR such choice or not??

This might be very sensitive issue for PR's under 26 especially...(And might be other too). So knowing answer to above q/s is very important.

"AW" suggests "Run AWAY" stratergy, but everybody has lot of more at stake here in US than just lives, like family, schooling,home,Bank A/c,investments, commitments etc. So there has to be some respectable way out to somebody who don't want draft... Please share your comments

I did not suggest that I only say you can legally do it.
 

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:
Why are all of you acting like hysterical women over a draft that is never going to happen?

But what if it happens??? And if I am under 26 (which I am not), I would definately find out answer. And if it starts for under 26, then it can start for under 30 (which I am) as well. So please spell out anything you know about it.

And How are you so sure that it won't happen?? Even Kerry suggested that possibility in election...
 
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AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
qwertyisback said:
But what if it happens??? And if I am under 26 (which I am not), I would definately find out answer. And if starts for under 26, then it can start for under 30 (which I am) as well. So please spell out anything you know about it.

And How are you so sure that it won't happen?? Even Kerry suggested that possibility in election...

Before teh war some people estimated that 500,000 troops are needed to get Iraqi under control but Bush bet 100,000 would do it.
Who is right is too early to tell. But if Bush was wrong then he or the his successor got to increase the level. And when the lev increase,
if volunteers are not enough, then the draft is needed


Once you mount a tiger, then you have to tame it or
eventually be eaten by it. Getting off is not
a solution

But this is a political topic so that let's stop.

But the question of PR facingf potential draft is a legitmate relevent question to this forum
 

TheRealCanadian

Volunteer Moderator
qwertyisback said:
But what if it happens???

What if an asteroid destroys the earth? What if mutant Amazon lesbians from the planet Morg invade America and turn all males under 26 into cannibalistic iguanas?

I don't spend time worrying about things that are extremely unlikely to occur. But if you want an answer, should the US implement a draft, you would be subject to it. Fleeing the US in order to avoid it would probably be a criminal act.

Even Kerry suggested that possibility in election...

To be strictly accurate, Kerry said that he would never do it, but his unscrupulous opponent..... well, that's another story. :D Politicians would accuse their opponents of anything including eating small children if they thought that someone might believe it.

Look, in the old days armies were a function of men under arms. You got a whole bunch of strong dumb farmboys, gave 'em a gun and a helmet and told them, "The enemy's thataway. Shoot in that direction, and when you run out of bullets whack 'em over the head with the rifle butt." You lost lots of troops but they were pretty intechangable.

Today, you have a high-tech force that relies on technology, that needs to train extensively to work as a team. It's said that the US military only breaks even on a soldier if they re-up for a second five year term. You're proposing to draft thousands of folks off the street who don't want to be there and expect to form a fighting force out of that rabble?

Note that not a single person with any influence in the DoD under an Administration of either political stripe has ever seriously suggested bringing back the draft. Until then, I'm keeping an eye out for suspicious activity in the Morg Sector - that's a more likely threat.
 

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:
What if an asteroid destroys the earth?

.
No kidding here, NASA has classified projects to deal such threats. You will know about them after 50 years when those docs are unclassified.

TheRealCanadian said:
What if mutant Amazon lesbians from the planet Morg invade America and turn all males under 26 into cannibalistic iguanas?

You can deal with such tasks at your own level, as those are just burps in your brain ;) .

But "draft" issue is a real issue for PR's . If it happens (and looking at war,it can happen very well), everybody's ass will be jacked up for sure. So if we know the answer, we can plan few things proactively.

And if you don't then, you sure find yourself in iraq desert,posting your experiences on this forum. But don't worry , all members will cheer you up from wherever they are :D :D
 

AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
qwertyisback said:
No kidding here, NASA has classified projects to deal such threats. You will know about them after 50 years when those docs are unclassified.

NASA did foind an asteroid that wil have 1 out of 300
chance of hitting th eearth in 2030 or somewhere
close to that. Even if it hits the sea, it will
cause a 3000 meter high tsunami
 

AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:
Today, you have a high-tech force that relies on technology, that needs to train extensively to work as a team. It's said that the US military only breaks even on a soldier if they re-up for a second five year term. You're proposing to draft thousands of folks off the street who don't want to be there and expect to form a fighting force out of that rabble?

To main order and security on streets, perhaps manpower is more
important.
 

GeneM

Registered Users (C)
qwertyisback,

There is already a policy in place with regard to non-citizens and dual nationals. Check the following link http://www.sss.gov/FSaliens.htm

I guess you have to deal with the fact that as a permanent US resident or as a US citizen you might be required to serve in the army in the case of the draft.
I am not sure though how you can "prepare" to the possible draft.

[--http://www.sss.gov/FSaliens.htm
U.S. non-citizens and dual nationals are required by law to register with the Selective Service System.* Most are also liable for induction into the U.S. Armed Forces if there is a draft. They would also be eligible for any deferments, postponements, and exemptions available to all other registrants.

However, some aliens and dual nationals would be exempt from induction into the military if there is a draft, depending on their country of origin and other factors. Some of these exemptions are shown below:

* An alien who has lived in the U.S. for less than one year is exempt from induction.
* Some countries have agreements with the U.S. which exempt a dual national who is a citizen of both that country and the U.S. from military service in the U.S. Armed Forces. However, an alien who requests and is exempted under such an agreement can never become a U.S. citizen, and may have trouble reentering the U.S. if he leaves.
* A dual national whose other country of nationality has an agreement with the U.S. which specifically provides for an exemption is exempt from induction.
* An alien who served at least a year in the military of a country with which the U.S. is involved in mutual defense activities will be exempt from military service if he is a national of a country that grants reciprocal privileges to citizens of the U.S.

During a draft, any claims for exemptions based on any of the above categories would be granted or denied by a man's Local Board.

Military examiners make the final decision about who will be accepted into the military.

*Note: Currently, aliens cannot volunteer for the military unless they have permanent resident alien status.
--]
 

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
GeneM said:
qwertyisback,
I am not sure though how you can "prepare" to the possible draft.
Yes you can, depending upon your situation and laws applicable to PR's regarding this issue.
Consider worst, that PR's will be forced to join draft then
If you smell draft then
** AS "AW" suggested, apply for reentry permit, if it helps to keep PR
** Sell your property(home etc) and shift to other accomdation
** Transfer your $$ to your home country
** Buy Tkt at appropriate time and fly back to your home country
OR
** Give up your GC and get some employer to sponsor your H1 and still live in US(as I beleive, h1's are exempt from draft).

These are few things pops up in my mind, but there can be many things done proactively, if desired.
 

AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
qwertyisback said:
Yes you can, depending upon your situation and laws applicable to PR's regarding this issue.
Consider worst, that PR's will be forced to join draft then
If you smell draft then
** AS "AW" suggested, apply for reentry permit, if it helps to keep PR
** Sell your property(home etc) and shift to other accomdation
** Transfer your $$ to your home country
** Buy Tkt at appropriate time and fly back to your home country
OR
** Give up your GC and get some employer to sponsor your H1 and still live in US(as I beleive, h1's are exempt from draft).

These are few things pops up in my mind, but there can be many things done proactively, if desired.

This thread is based upon the assumption PRs don't want to go to war
because of danger (if you want to fight then that would be different)
So You can enlist yourslef into the navy and the air force to doge
draft into the army or the USMC. the navy and the air force is very safe

Maybe there will be a PRs Corps composed of PRs in the US military
 

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
AmericanWannabe said:
This thread is based upon the assumption PRs don't want to go to war
because of danger (if you want to fight then that would be different)
So You can enlist yourslef into the navy and the air force to doge
draft into the army or the USMC. the navy and the air force is very safe

Maybe there will be a PRs Corps composed of PRs in the US military

Do you think that , they give choice or anything like that? In normal recruit, there might be choice, but for draft, there will not be any choice. Just my guess. I beleive, they put you wherever the need is. (and thats why draft is in place)
 

AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
qwertyisback said:
Do you think that , they give choice or anything like that? In normal recruit, there might be choice, but for draft, there will not be any choice. Just my guess. I beleive, they put you wherever the need is. (and thats why draft is in place)

if you already enlist yourself before the draft , then you don't have to worry about the draft.
 

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
AmericanWannabe said:
if you already enlist yourself before the draft , then you don't have to worry about the draft.

Thats easy way out,:rolleyes: enlist yourself to avoid draft :rolleyes: :D. You can come up something better than this one. Will ya?
 
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mrz

Registered Users (C)
If there is a draft, which is very unlikely, I don't know why to lose sleep over it? Even if you are in your home country, you might have to go to war if required. Same holds true here.

I wouldn't run out of this country, like a coward, if required to go to war. Hey, that's me! Don't want to get really philosophical here but, you live only once and why not engage in a war if it's requested/required from the country? It's not like you will just *die* instantaneously if you go to a war. If that is the case, no one would enlist in the army/navy/etc.

Sticking with a country for just money and disregarding it when the country is in danger is like selling your soul cheaply... You have to pay the dues one way or the other and wouldn't lose my sleep over this. Yes, I am married and have a kid and willing to fight for the country, if required.
 

candyroy

Registered Users (C)
AmericanWannabe said:
Draft can be re-started. Bush promised no draft during election campaign and Kerry predict he would inevitably invoke the draft.

To invoke the draft, an act of the congress is needed.

Not necc he got the go ahead from congress/senate in 2002 when he was given power to fight the war on ter as he sees fit
 

qwertyisback

Registered Users (C)
mrz said:
Even if you are in your home country, you might have to go to war if required. Same holds true here.

If its my home country, I won't wait for "draft" or anything like that. If my commander says that they running thin on army, I will enlist myself at once. And I am sure there will be many others join with me too. And I am sure this applies to US citizens also., they will and should do same thing.
But as a PR , I don't think that PR is entitled or forced to war.All PR's didn't (as they can't) vote for previous election which is kind of mandate on war.... Does PR gets a chance to vote?? NO. Does PR treated same way as citizens??(in terms of protecting basic rights... patriot act can come hard on PR's but not on citizens) NO. Then how can government asks/force PR's to join army?? And if they do, then we are discussing,whats alternatives PR's can have, who thinks otherwise. Thats it.

mrz said:
Sticking with a country for just money and disregarding it when the country is in danger is like selling your soul cheaply... You have to pay the dues one way or the other and wouldn't lose my sleep over this.
And if somebody thinks so much "brave" and obligated about himself , then why to wait for "draft?? You should join/enlist immediately, rather than preaching others. :D
 
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