Denied TN-visa, employer decide to let me go

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#1
Hi

I had the unfortunate incident of having my TN-denied (had to withdraw my application) just last Sunday in port of entry Toronto on Jan 4th 2009. Had been using basically the same package done by my US employer's lawyers the past 2 years but having it reviewed by a Senior Official this time. Anyways, thats the first part. Subsequently, I informed my employer about this and they decided that it was an opportune time to let me go. Thats another story which I wont go into any further. I just got my termination package yesterday. Anyways it is what it is and I am not going to fret about it.

Now, my real worry is how I should go back into the US to tie up loose ends. Is it sufficient to just go in like a normal tourist but tell the CBP officer that I am going back to bring my stuff back and to clean up? I intend to bring my termination papers with me as proof that I have been laid off as well as a return ticket via greyhound. I am planning to stay for a couple of weeks to a month. Not sure how long they will grant me.

I am assuming my passport has already been recorded with a Withdrawal of application for Consular Notification because I have a copy of the I-275 given back to me (fingerprints and headshot and all). Thus, I don't intend to lie at all.

I do not intend to go back to the US for work (truthfully but not sure of the CBP officer will believe that). I just need my time to sell my stuff, close accounts and file my taxes.

Can anyone suggest an appropriate course of action for me so that I can complete my objective yet not be subject to any objectionable actions?

Appreciate anyone who can assist.

Thanks
 

kepu

Registered Users (C)
#2
Mann....I'd not loose hope or heart..as this happened at very first time at toronto airport but still I am in US .....just do your part of seeking some jobs,I know its hard in this tough economy but thats not impossible things,Now the thing is you can do it from Toronto too...and just keep your stuff in the US atleast for couple of months and if you have any close friend/relative in US to whom you can ask to transfer your stuff in to some safe place or publically avilable storage units and If you can't find anything in that much of time then come here as a tourist and sell all those off or take it back to Toronto.
This is just my opinion and you can do whatever you feel good for you and your family......
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#3
To be re-admitted as a tourist, you need to re-establish ties in canada.

You *could* try to get in, being truthful, as you say. They may take the step of actually issuing you an I-94 in B2 for short duration (this is done exceptionally for Cdns when the CBP want to emphasize that they are letting you in on a short leash).

But don't count on that.
 

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#4
What do you mean by establishing ties with Canada? Its not the easiest thing to get a job right now anywhere and also I am already living at home with my parents everyday and driving around, basically I have already established my ties by living the normal life I would have lived if I remained in Canada.

I plan to sell off all my things or give them away...but I need to file my taxes and close accounts also..something I need to be down there to do.

Thanks again for any input.
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#5
By establishing ties, I mean lease/phone/utilities/drivers license/medical card/license plate... and carrying such proof with you when you cross. These are the same ties that any other Cdn can show when they cross the border to go shopping or to spend the winter in Phoenix.

CBP doesn't care about what you 'have to' get done in US. Most people who are barred from US have many things they needed to get done , but now can't. CBP is only interested in making sure that (a) you aren't being admitted illegally and (b) are not a risk to work illegally or overstay.

Thus the need for you to prove you live in canada and have sufficient ties there that will compel you to return. Right now, I'd say you don't.
 
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nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#6
As an aside, it would seem that CBP is being much more critical of recent petitions. Since Wingo odesn't seem to have a problem with the denial, it would appear that his previous TNs were not really warranted.

Is it possible that CBP is being more careful not to make a "three-year mistake" than they were in the past when yearly renewal was mandated? This extra scrutiny, combined with their increased surliness due to the economic downturn (meaning more of the officers' poorly-educated nephews being out of work) could make border TNs an even more risky proposition.
 

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#7
Understood nelsona, thanks for the reply.

So basically once I have reinstated my drivers license/Health Card in Canada, started a subscription for a mobile phone service in Toronto would be sufficient evidence of reestablishing ties, then I could improve my chances of re-entering the US as a tourist? I can still show them my termination letter as proof that I have been laid off and request for a short term stay with a return ticket in hand.
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#8
This should help. Your OHIP card will take 3 months, so I wouldn't necessarily wait for that.

I wouldn't specifically request a short stay. Just just say you will be going for a couple of weeks to tie up loose ends. If they are satisfied, they will simply let you in, with no strings. The bus ticket isn't going to convince them either way, as that is a pretty open-ended method of return.

Don't have any resumes on you.
 

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#9
Thanks for your help Nelsona....its people like you who makes this complicated world an easier place to live.

Also, do you think i should give it a couple of weeks before I try to re-enter the US? say late January so as to show to the CBP that I have had sufficient ties to re-establishing my ties in Canada? Would a credit card membership also help?

Also, my employer did say they are clamping down on handing out visas in the US due to the dire economic environment in the US and Obama's plan to increase 3 mm jobs in the US by 2011...do you think this has any implications on this?
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#10
Your (former) employer doesn't really know what he talkng about. There is no legal clamp-down.


TN is exempt from any requirement that on prove there is no job shortage, and the regs on TN have not changed (other than the 3-year term).

My comments were wondering if the lunatics are running the assylum again. CBP officers always take matters in their own hands when their friends/family start to get laid off, regardless of what the law or the president may say.
 

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#11
Thats what I was told and thats my first assumption as well. Of course I dont trust my ex employer much anymore.

So, to improve my chances of getting back in as a tourist, should I wait say 2 to 3 weeks before trying to get back in the US?

thx again
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#12
I think I've answered that. It's not merely waiting, it's getting as many of the items you can that prove you live in Canada. If you can get these by Monday, then you can go back Tuesday if you wish.
 

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#13
Got it. Thanks...will keep you guys posted when I do so as to at least give more insight as to what the right way is...obviously depends on the CBP officer also.
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#14
... I think we'd all like better 'insight' into why/how you were rejected with previously used documentation. That would be useful information.

Entering on tourist status is pretty straightfoward.
 

k_nraj

Registered Users (C)
#15
The reason I'm quoting this is to let you know that It's all unpredictable many times.

I got turned down 3 times at the border when I first ever looked for TN. 2 out of the 3 times I was asked to turn around and returned to Canada. But one time they just told me you are denied the TN and didn't asked to return. So I had to visit some places nearby and left the next day only.

For you best action might be to briefly establish few ties in Canada, as Nelsona mentioned and actively seek employment on either side of the border and pick the best for you.

I have sent for my mail in renewal last October before the 3 year term came in place and I had to go to Canada on an emergency during the Christmas time. I have kept myself with all the documents for the renewal (this time with 3 year renewal letter). I remember the officer just as a casual talk mentioning the jobless in US and other issues, but this time he issued the TN without any hassle. He was asking why did you sent the mail in renewal and it's costly for me and things like that

Again don't loose the hope or anything, Just find the next employer and if that happened to be on US, have a positive attitude, get the papers straight out, smile on your face and move on

All the best
 

nelsona

Registered Users (C)
#16
But one time they just told me you are denied the TN and didn't asked to return.
Since this was your first TN, you were still resident of canada.
I have sent for my mail in renewal last October before the 3 year term came in place
Since you now have your 3-year TN, please tell me you formally cancelled your mail-in! Otherwise, when it is approved, for one year, it will be come your new TN, and you will lose 2 years of validity.
 

smr_us

Registered Users (C)
#17
This is really scary... especially for those of us living in US with young kids. Life on TN gets stressful just becuase of this uncertainity. Wingo, would you kind enough to share the reason they gave you for denying TN.
 

mercury6

Registered Users (C)
#18
Wingo,

You are making me nervous. I have to go for my first TN next week at Pearson.

Could you please let us know the reason for rejection?

Send a PM if possible.
 

Wingo

Registered Users (C)
#19
Hi guys,

the reason I got denied, was that they say my job description did not include enough duties of an accountant even though I was working as an assistant controller at a hedge fund. As well, the date of the employment letter was dated Dec 1st 2008 and I did my TN application on Jan 4th. Supposedly there is a 30 day duration for my employment letter to be eligible. Also, I did not have my transcript with me (I did not need it for my previous TN application so I did not bother) to justify my accounting background. Anyways, the senior official who reviewed my application was a jackass but after I told him I would get these amended and return, he started acting nice. Anyways, I thought it should not be a problem for my company but instead they took this chance to can me, which was another story all together.

Anyways, I wasnt the only one who got refused that day after spending over 3 hours at Pearson's Passport secondary to get rejected. I think the snr official who denied me had a surname of Castro. Told he wrote the rule book on TN.
 

simsd

Registered Users (C)
#20
Wingo

Unfortunately your lackadaisical approach to all of this is what got you denied. The late letter, no transcripts, no "solid" package no back up as I always say. You sound young. You need to have all of this dialed in these days or this is what will happen.

You don't even sound like your fighting to stay.

Good luck in Canada.
 
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