Bill to remove the per-country cap: a destroyer of EB3

Jackolantern

Registered Users (C)
#1
http://lofgren.house.gov/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=1909

Removing the per-country cap definitely makes sense for EB1, and is not really a bad idea for EB2. The best and brightest should not be blocked out because of the per-country limit.

But for EB3, it could turn into a nightmare. Remember that for EB3, it is not required to have even a bachelor's degree. You only need two years of experience. That is how many of the laborers on the farms and in restaurants were able to qualify in EB3 when they filed under 245(i). Given the HUGE potential supply of such workers from Mexico, removing the per-country cap could allow them to use up 80% of the cap by themselves, crowding out the degreed professionals from other countries.

Nothing against those workers, as they are needed in the economy, but when you have this category that lumps in people with little education and two years of experience with people who have master's degrees and over a decade of experience (but whose employer decided not to file in EB2 for whatever reason), removing the cap could have serious unintended consequences for EB3.
 
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chitti007

Registered Users (C)
#2
I don't see a problem with it as long as the job offer is valid, the employer is held accountable for the job offer, and USCIS processes the applications FIFO.
Pretty soon it will make those companies that were not willing to file in EB2 to turn around and start posting their requirements to meet the EB2 category.

Unless they stop overloading the number on one side of the equation, this mess will never clear.

Overloading:
1. The number of dual intent visas given each year is much higher than the available GCs.
2. Allowing all the dependents to accompany on a single count of a work visa, but counting them all towards the GC cap.
 

StonedAnt

Registered Users (C)
#4
I personally feel removing this cap would only benefit those who come from capped countries (only for a short period of time) and thus would be disastrous for those who currently fall under the ROW category. I also feel that a lot of mockery of the system has been made when people easily switch from EB3 to EB2 and vice versa, thus affecting those who really deserve to be in the higher category. I have not researched this into too much depth, but from my personal observation, a lot of these backlogs have been a result of labor subs, consulting companies abusing the legal system, cheap foreign labor etc. Of course, the 245i fiasco of 2001 has not helped the situation either. If anyone really wants to fix this situation, they should go after those who have found loopholes and twisted the system to their own benefit.

And please do not start bashing me on my comments, these are just personal opinions. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, EB3 requires a Bachelors degree with 2 years of experience. In case if a candidate does not have a Bachelors degree, then they must have at least 5 years of experience.


Stoned!
 

chitti007

Registered Users (C)
#5
chitti007, let me guess - you are from a retrogressed country, but it is not relevant? ;)
So you think me being from a retrogressed country made me say what I said above? I will not attempt to change your thinking on that.
(For the record, it is not relevant.) :)

What is your opinion on the subject at hand?

If you want 5000 people to come and work for you, do you want the best you could get? Or do you want to restrict yourself to 25 from each country?
 
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sfmars

Registered Users (C)
#6
So you think me being from a retrogressed country made me say what I said above? I will not attempt to change your thinking on that.
(For the record, it is not relevant.) :)

What is your opinion on the subject at hand?

If you want 5000 people to come and work for you, do you want the best you could get? Or do you want to restrict yourself to 25 from each country?
Foreign education holders can not be attested properly, it is not a secret that a lot of people use fake certificates/diploma. That's why 25 from each coutry is more efficient.

Diversity is the Core of US immigration system.
 

alexberg

Registered Users (C)
#7
So you think me being from a retrogressed country made me say what I said above? I will not attempt to change your thinking on that.
(For the record, it is not relevant.) :)

What is your opinion on the subject at hand?

If you want 5000 people to come and work for you, do you want the best you could get? Or do you want to restrict yourself to 25 from each country?
Honestly, I believe you have a hidden agenda. I don't want to debate a straw man.
 

Jackolantern

Registered Users (C)
#8
BTW, to the best of my knowledge, EB3 requires a Bachelors degree with 2 years of experience.
No it doesn't. EB3 "Skilled worker" only requires two years of experience or training. It is the EB3 "Professional" that requires a bachelor's degree. Remove the per-country cap altogether, and degreed professionals (even from India/China) will get shut out.

http://www.visalaw.com/05jun4/2jun405.html
Who is considered a skilled worker by the USCIS?

For a person to qualify as a skilled worker, the position offered must require at least two years training and experience. The alien must possess the requisite background, but simply because the alien has two years of training and experience does not make it a skilled position if it does not otherwise require two years of training and experience.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=91919c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD
Skilled worker positions are not seasonal or temporary and require at least two years of experience or training. The training requirement may be met through relevant post-secondary education.
 

Jackolantern

Registered Users (C)
#9
If you want 5000 people to come and work for you, do you want the best you could get? Or do you want to restrict yourself to 25 from each country?
I want the best, so I would have a points system and take those with the most points. But if I am not allowed to pick the best, and have to choose from a big pool called EB3 that makes no effort to differentiate between best and worst, then I'll want to diversify with a healthy mix of a large number of countries.

It is like investing. If I have 100 companies available to invest in, I want to pick the best 5 or 6 to invest in. But if I am not able/allowed to figure out who is the best or worst, I am better off spreading my money among 20 or 50 or even all 100.
 
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byThorbyOdin

Registered Users (C)
#11
I for one prefer diversity rather than huge groups of people from one country hoarding the system.
While the argument is proverbially moot, these "controls" need to be applied at the point of entry aka the lawful admittance into the employment based system rather than at the GC issuance time - How is it "preferable" to lawfully admit hoards of people from a country only to perpetually have them wait for GCs, be exploited, live through uncertainty merely on the basis of arcane artificially imposed quotas.
 

vghc

Registered Users (C)
#12
While the argument is proverbially moot, these "controls" need to be applied at the point of entry aka the lawful admittance into the employment based system rather than at the GC issuance time - How is it "preferable" to lawfully admit hoards of people from a country only to perpetually have them wait for GCs, be exploited, live through uncertainty merely on the basis of arcane artificially imposed quotas.
How can it be called exploitation when one have clearly a way to get out of the situation by choice? The biggest exploitation done here is by employers of a certain skin color that has abuse the immigration system and treating their own workers like a commodity. I don't think the answer to this issue is taking away a benefit from another group.
 

Jackolantern

Registered Users (C)
#13
How can it be called exploitation when one have clearly a way to get out of the situation by choice?
Exploitation doesn't require lack of choice. When there is no choice, that's slavery. When there are other choices but those choices have severe consequences such as leaving the country or having to restart the green card process, it's exploitation.
 

vghc

Registered Users (C)
#14
Exploitation doesn't require lack of choice. When there is no choice, that's slavery. When there are other choices but those choices have severe consequences such as leaving the country or having to restart the green card process, it's exploitation.
True....but the exploitation is not solely the blame of the US immigration system.
Its a combination of both the employer and the system.
 

Madboy

Registered Users (C)
#16
US requiring people from one or two country during Y2K is selfishness. Later offering GC based on country cap is a discrimination.

People enter US based on the requirement (Although I should agree it is based on emplyer too). But cap has to be there to restrict the country limits prior to entering US not after entering.
 

StonedAnt

Registered Users (C)
#17
US requiring people from one or two country during Y2K is selfishness. Later offering GC based on country cap is a discrimination.

People enter US based on the requirement (Although I should agree it is based on emplyer too). But cap has to be there to restrict the country limits prior to entering US not after entering.
So, what you are saying is that the country cap should be on H1Bs and not GC sponsorships?


Stoned!
 

manwithnoname

Registered Users (C)
#18
My take on this:
1. As per my observation most of the employers possess short term objectives. Perhaps that's the reason for temporary work visa outnumbering the available visa numbers.
2. A change in the per country cap rule is welcomed as long as unused visa numbers (for each EB category) per fiscal year is reduced.
 

chitti007

Registered Users (C)
#19
I agree that diversity is very much needed.
But for EB GCs, the way the diversity is applied at approval time is a total sham.

Someone mentioned above that they do not want to see people from one region/country hoarding up the system. When the system is allowing all the work visas (H1s/L1s/B1s etc) from a single country, and then letting them keep renewing their visas as long as their LPR process was started more than 365 days ago, you already have the hoarding in place.

Regarding people abusing the system by producing false diplomas etc, I think USCIS is very much aware of it. Hence the blacklisting of certain universities and closer scrutiny of the diplomas/degrees from those universities.
Along similar lines, it won't be long before people will start abusing the country of chargeability by producing bogus birth certificates from under-represented countries. Is it impossible to do? Probably not. As long as there are corrupt people in government offices, and someone is desperate to come to the USA, such things will happen.

Also, think about this: If an incompetent person uses fake diplomas to get a visa, won't they be exposed at their work place and lose their job? Google can only carry them so long. There will be times when one has to perform without the benefit of google search.

There are a lot of people without a college degree that are very very good at what they do. And there are some who have graduate degrees, but don't work well. So points based system will not be a foolproof system either. But considering the current system in place, the point system might be the best thing to do provided that it is not the final deciding factor for a visa approval. I think the employer/sponsor ought to have a say in the approval process also. This will help the companies get those exceptional candidates who do not have college degrees.
 

Madboy

Registered Users (C)
#20
So, what you are saying is that the country cap should be on H1Bs and not GC sponsorships?


Stoned!
Exactly. When US wants people from one country they should be willing to offer GC's based on their entry date or some other reason and not simply on country of birth.

I have a PD prior to Jackolantern and he got his GC 8 months ago and I can't imagine any sooner. Won't you feel discriminated. (Jackolantern - I am not jealous of you. But I have to tell the facts)
 
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