Address Change AR-11 late filing

emno

Registered Users (C)
Hi,

I moved to my new home in June 2007 but I filled AR-11 online in August as I was not sure if I had sent the paper copy of AR-11 due to home shifting confusion.
Now when I file N-400, I will show my new address from June 2007 but the AR11 was fileld in August.
Will it be a problem?

Thanks in advance
 

WBH

Registered Users (C)
Hi,

I moved to my new home in June 2007 but I filled AR-11 online in August as I was not sure if I had sent the paper copy of AR-11 due to home shifting confusion.
Now when I file N-400, I will show my new address from June 2007 but the AR11 was fileld in August.
Will it be a problem?

Thanks in advance

I don't think the IO even know that. Is AR-11 part of our A-file? I don't think so even if it is I really do not think the
IO cares. If IOs cares, I believe 70% of immigrants would have been deported.

But truthfully if you care, you can consider whether you should answer Yes to Question 15 of Part 10 D "Have you EVER
commited a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?". If you answer Yes, then explain
"I did not file AR-11 within 10 days so I commited a offense violating 8 USC 1305
(http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1305.html) which is punisheable by $200+30 day in jail
(http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1306.html) and deportation
 
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GungaDin

Registered Users (C)
Thanks WBH for quick response.
What is IO?

The Immigration Officer - the one that processes your case and interviews you.
BTW, they do have a copy of the Address Change form in your file. I personally don't think this is an issue but I'm not the one applying :)

Having said that, you need to be consistent in filling out your form. So if you're going to list this out as a 'crime committed but not arrested', you should also list out all the times you may have broken the speed limit but weren't cited etc.
 

WBH

Registered Users (C)
Having said that, you need to be consistent in filling out your form. So if you're going to list this out as a 'crime committed but not arrested', you should also list out all the times you may have broken the speed limit but weren't cited etc.

I personally think the criteria for 'committed but not arrested' is if the law enforcement can still take action against it.
If you now go to a police station and tell them you drive 10 mph above limit 10 day ago, I don't think they can do anything.
so that does not count. But if you tell police you robbed a bank 10 years ago most likely you will be arrested. The same thing for failure to file AR-11, the immigraion authority still can prosecute you for failure to file AR 11
no matter how many years ago unless you are a citizen now
 

SEA400

Registered Users (C)
OP did not do anything wrong. All he did is filled an online AR-11 in Aug as a backup to the paper version, he most probabily sent in July.

He doesn't need to worry about - Question 15 of Part 10 D "Have you EVER
commited a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested?"

OP did what is required by law and to be doubly sure he also submitted another AR-11 online. I think he is ok.
 

sunny808

Registered Users (C)
Hi,

I moved to my new home in June 2007 but I filled AR-11 online in August as I was not sure if I had sent the paper copy of AR-11 due to home shifting confusion.
Now when I file N-400, I will show my new address from June 2007 but the AR11 was fileld in August.
Will it be a problem?

Thanks in advance

no need to worry. your failure to fill up the AR-11 has to be knowing and willful for it to be punishable. you filed as soon as you discovered you were required to do so, thus you should be in good shape.
 

emno

Registered Users (C)
Thanks.

I just noticed that I had late file AR-11 in 2002 also (almost 2 and 1/2 months late). That time I did not know that I have to file AR-11 and my manager asked me if I filed it and then I filed. Do INS have AR-11 records for more than 5 years old? Though I dont have to write that address change in N-400 as it was before 7 years.

Last address change was in 2007 which again I filled AR-11 2 month late. Will INS conclude that I am a late filer by nature.
 

WBH

Registered Users (C)
no need to worry. your failure to fill up the AR-11 has to be knowing and willful for it to be punishable. you filed as soon as you discovered you were required to do so, thus you should be in good shape.

Not Knowing and wilful does not include "ignorance of law" it is only referred to "mistake of the fact".

Example 1: you fiill AR-11 and place it into an enevelop, give it to your wife and tell her to mail it. Your wife forgot it but you do not know. Then you have a legal defense because it is "mistake of the fact"

Example 2: You do not know you are required to file AR-11 so you do not file. This is not legal defense and you
can be found guilty.
 

emno

Registered Users (C)
Thanks WBH. I understand that it was wrong.
Now do I have to worry on a AR-11 which I filed late in 2002 for N-400 filing now?
secondly my recent ar-11 was in 2007 which was almot 2 month late. But I had send the paper copy for which I do not have any proof and thats why I filed it online to have a proof?
thanks
 

WBH

Registered Users (C)
Thanks WBH. I understand that it was wrong.
Now do I have to worry on a AR-11 which I filed late in 2002 for N-400 filing now?
secondly my recent ar-11 was in 2007 which was almot 2 month late. But I had send the paper copy for which I do not have any proof and thats why I filed it online to have a proof?
thanks

I said early. Do not worry about it. But the reason is that this law is not really enforced not because you have a legal defense.

If this law were to be strictly enforced, you would see concentration camp be built for the purpose of deporting
millions perhaps 10s of millions noncitizens and pewrhaps naturlization citizens too for lying on N400 for not
dislocsing past failure to file AR -11. Perhaps a civil war would break out.

So don't worry about it and do not answer Yes to Q 15 of Part 10 D.
 

emno

Registered Users (C)
Thanks WBH. Thank you so very much.

Now one more question ( though there are many conflict answers to it). My wife met an accident while merging from middle lane and she was given a ticket. she was asked to come to court and she was not fined by court. Though that accident went on insurance and insurance hike etc.
I got a proof letter from court that the she was not fined and ticket was dropped or was not found suitable for fine (something like that).
do she has to answer YES to Q16 of Part 10D. ( I read the question when you pointed me to q15 of partD, thanks for clarifying)
 

emno

Registered Users (C)
Sorry WBH for bothering you again:

M-476.pdf

Page 8.

Even if you have committed a minor crime, USCIS may deny your application if you do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident. Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than $500 and/or points on your driver’s license.

Page 25:
Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500 and/or points on your driver’s license.

Does it means that I have to mention traffic tickets but I dont have to have the proof for paying fine
OR
I dont have to submit the proof with N-400 application but may be asked at the time of interview
Or
I dont ahve to mention the traffic ticket which is less than $500 fine.

also, I got 2 traffic tickets before getting my green card, do I have to write them too?
 
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WBH

Registered Users (C)
Sorry WBH for bothering you again:

M-476.pdf

Page 8.

Even if you have committed a minor crime, USCIS may deny your application if you do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident. Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than $500 and/or points on your driver’s license.

Page 25:
Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500 and/or points on your driver’s license.

Does it means that I have to mention traffic tickets but I dont have to have the proof for paying fine
OR
I dont have to submit the proof with N-400 application but may be asked at the time of interview
Or
I dont ahve to mention the traffic ticket which is less than $500 fine.

also, I got 2 traffic tickets before getting my green card, do I have to write them too?

First, the M476 says you do not need to provide documentation but it does not say you
do not need to disclsoe it.

Secondly, Here is the funny part. The M476 says you do not need to povide documentation if the
fine was less than $500 but this assumed someone was fined. If you did not need to pay the fine,
maybe you need to provide documentation that show you did not need to pay the fine. So for the
purpose of N400, it is better to be fined tup to $499 than getting teh case dismissed or or a "not guilt verdict".

This actually is consisitent with exprienced reported here in the past. Some say if they
told the IO they paid the fine, thenjh IOs did not care. But if they said they went to court
to fight off teh ticket, then IO demands to see teh court documents.
 
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sunny808

Registered Users (C)
Not Knowing and wilful does not include "ignorance of law" it is only referred to "mistake of the fact".

Example 1: you fiill AR-11 and place it into an enevelop, give it to your wife and tell her to mail it. Your wife forgot it but you do not know. Then you have a legal defense because it is "mistake of the fact"

Example 2: You do not know you are required to file AR-11 so you do not file. This is not legal defense and you
can be found guilty.

The failure to file an AR-11 is not a strict liability offense. It still requires scienter. For knowing and wilfull to be met, OP would have failed to file willfully despite knowing about the requirement to do so. That's not the case here right?
 
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WBH

Registered Users (C)
The failure to file an AR-11 is not a strict liability offense. It still requires scienter. For knowing and wilfull to be met, OP would have failed to file willfully despite knowing about the requirement to do so. That's not the case here right?

Strict liability offense means even mistake of the fact can not be a legal defense. An example is speeding, you cannot say you are not watching the odometer so you were not aware that you were driving 10 mph aboive the limit. But whether
the offense is trict liability or not, ignorance of law is never legal defense you can only use ignorance of law to argue
for some lenience.

It is understandable that laws should not allow ignorance of law to be used as legal defense otherwise everyone would
try hard to make himself as ignorance as possible to avoid legal punishment.
 

Vorpal

Registered Users (C)
I filed my first AR-11 about 10 months after I moved. This was a non-issue. The only other AR-11 I ever filed was about 4 months after moving. This was a non-issue either. Don't worry about it.
 

sanjoseaug20

Registered Users (C)
I filed my first AR-11 about 10 months after I moved. This was a non-issue. The only other AR-11 I ever filed was about 4 months after moving. This was a non-issue either. Don't worry about it.

While I agree late filing is not an issue, the example that they did not come after you does NOT imply that they will not give hard time to others.
 

WBH

Registered Users (C)
While I agree late filing is not an issue, the example that they did not come after you does NOT imply that they will not give hard time to others.

It is too late to fix this. You have to take this attitude: "if USCIS want to come after me, then let them come".
What else can you do?
 
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