A suggetion for all EB Affected Folks !!!

[sundar99]

I agree with some of you that Lawsuit may be a fitting answer to the EB Retro problem.

I do not want to discourage the hopes of folks who have put a lot off efforts to get the attention of the mandarins. I strongly - support the move for Class A law suit for taking the engineers for a ride with the hope of getting GCs and eventually the folks leave back SS Tax for which they are not eligible to get due to their nationality.

Once the lawsuit gets enough publicity and media attention, the GOVT will positively use a backdoor method to clear the existing problem. But it may cost the new H1s of not getting the benefit of being eligible to get the GC.

I have contributed a decent amount to Immigration Voice, I do not mind chipping in couple of hundered if they can atleast get our Social Security Tax money to our accounts into the country we would go back to - Say Provident Fund - India, or CPF if Singapore. I strongly think this is worth the effort. At least you stand to get 50,000 Dollars or so. Even if you did not get the GC, you atleast get back your own hard earned money which can be useful for your future investments. - If the GOVT of US senses this loss, they might accelerate the process of giving GC, since they can milk the engineers out of the Tax Dollars and in addtion get their Social Security contribution and they need not part with it, since this $ is vital for US economy and medicare expenses.

 

[saras76]

We are there cash cow ...

sundar99,

We are the US governments cash cows. We pay our taxes, work for lower wages and are not eligible for any benefits till we get our GCs. These are all known facts and our grounds of suing the govt are very weak. We are in the process of getting our GCs and no one is stopping us from applying. Using the arguement that the retrogression is preventing people from applying will be countered by the claim that this is a temporary situation that will be rectified in the future. So basically we have no case in the court of law. On humanitarian grounds, our case is strong but no one cares about legal immigrants. Its high time we relaized this. The only way we can win this battle is by convincing the government that these policies are going to cause a lot of financial loss for the US in the long term. We need to make the case that we are adding value to this economy and driving us away will weaken te US economy and global leadership position. Only financial incentives or potential economical problems can infulence the governments plans.

Yours thoughts are noble and they are very reasonable. However, the system is neither fair nor reasonable.

regards,

saras76

 

[GCdreamer2006]

Saras76,

You are assuming that our EB problem is solveable in the short-term when you stated that our argument could be countered by the claim that this is a temporary situation. How long the immigration agencies have been claiming this problem would be fixed ? I remember that the exactly same argument that the process was going to be streamlined and a lawsuit was a waste of our energy was used three years ago. Yet we find ourselves stuck again in the greencard queue, paying renewals evey year. I just renewed my EAD+AP and spent $800. I used to spend $1,800/year with H1B renewal. I paid $7,000 in federal taxes this year alone and I don't get a dime in benefits if I lose my job.

The DOL process was streamlined, but then it caused backlogs at USCIS. Now yes, perhaps people will manage to increase visa numbers - although very difficult due to the immigration reduction sentiment. However, don't forget that we have the prospect of an amnesty or at minimum a guest-worker program coming for an astonishing number of people:12+million illegal aliens. Some statistics claim that actually there are 25 million illegal aliens. Based on the number of illegals coming to my neighborhood on daily basis, I believe the latter is a more realistic number. Don't forget we have 10,000/day crossing the borders.

What I am saying is that if you keep relying on the lobbying effort and assume that our EB issue will be resolved on the short or medium-term, you may disappoint yourself again. Even if the Congress goes against the American people and increase the visa numbers, then the next bottleneck may well be amnesty or guest-worker program and we would be put in this endless queue again. We need a lawsuit running in parallel with the lobbying efforts.

sundar99,

We are the US governments cash cows. We pay our taxes, work for lower wages and are not eligible for any benefits till we get our GCs. These are all known facts and our grounds of suing the govt are very weak. We are in the process of getting our GCs and no one is stopping us from applying. Using the arguement that the retrogression is preventing people from applying will be countered by the claim that this is a temporary situation that will be rectified in the future. So basically we have no case in the court of law. On humanitarian grounds, our case is strong but no one cares about legal immigrants. Its high time we relaized this. The only way we can win this battle is by convincing the government that these policies are going to cause a lot of financial loss for the US in the long term. We need to make the case that we are adding value to this economy and driving us away will weaken te US economy and global leadership position. Only financial incentives or potential economical problems can infulence the governments plans.

Yours thoughts are noble and they are very reasonable. However, the system is neither fair nor reasonable.

regards,

saras76

 

[sobers]

Class Action Lawsuit for EB Immigrants

Friends,

Like you all I'm hoping for some good news to come out of the Spring Immigration Season. Hopefully meaures to recapture EB visas and exempt spouses/dependents will be passed because they certainly makes economic sense to both Immigrants and to America. But in an election year things may not progress as they should especially with anti-immigrant sentiment on the rise (according to a variety of recent polls).

We are on much surer ground in terms of legal ground: So one another step we could undertake is a Class Action Lawsuit on recapturing the 100,000+ unused EB visa numbers that have been lost because of the INS/USCIS inefficiencies. In many ways this will be similar to Rajiv Khanna's earlier attempt, but with a much better, most feared immigration advocate - PETER SCHEY - a guy who has a history of successful class action lawsuits against the INS. If we make legal headway with our claim, it will also put pressure on Congressman on the validity of EB number recapture and increase in the forthcoming spring session.

If this guy can bring so much success for ILLEGALS, imagine what he could potentially do for hardworking, law-abiding, educated LEGAL immigrants like ourselves who are suffering for no cause other than bureaucratic inefficiency!!

We need a "Super-Attorney" such as this- one who has had a track record of success. Rajiv Khanna's effort efforts last year were a step in the right direction, but we need someone with more experience/skills to get this through. I strongly endorse the idea of a Class Action Lawsuit.

Even if the Senate passes EB relief provisions, they could be just as easily thrown out by the House as happened with S. 1932.Twiddling your thumbs and simply hoping that something passes in a tough election year -when the whole House is up for re-election - is a fantasy, my friends! The sooner we come to terms with it, the better. That way, we can atleast start on the Judicial solution.

========================
Peter Schey bio:
http://centerforhumanrights.org/staff/

256 S. Occidental Blvd.
Los Angeles, California 90057 [Map]
Phone: (213) 388-8693
Fax: (213) 386-9484
mail@centerforhumanrights.org
pschey@centerforhumanrights.org


Also see how Peter's past successes stroke fear in the heart of immigration-restrictionists:
http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERE...derBuster.html

"One of the nation's preeminent immigration attorneys, Schey has helped more than 1 million illegal immigrants become American citizens. He was one of the first lawyers in the country to bring class-action lawsuits against the Immigration and Naturalization Service on behalf of illegals. He successfully led the fight against Proposition 187, a 1994 ballot measure that would have denied government benefits such as healthcare and education to undocumented residents of California. Schey also won the landmark 1982 Plyler v. Doe case before the U.S. Supreme Court, which allowed illegal immigrant children to attend public schools. Currently, he's representing more than 300,000 immigrants who were shut out of the 1986 federal amnesty program after they briefly traveled abroad. In April, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled that at least 50,000 of Schey's clients in the case should be legalized. (He'll continue to battle the INS on behalf of the other 250,000 undocumented residents denied amnesty.)"

"Schey is part of the reason that the multicultural faces of Los Angeles and other big cities around the country look the way they do. He was one of two attorneys who helped win political asylum for 30,000 Salvadorans who fled the U.S.-sponsored war in their country in 1982. In another class-action case, he forced the INS to reverse its policy of denying political asylum to Haitian refugees. He eventually won the right for more than 5,000 Haitians to permanently reside in the U.S. Through a petition he filed with the Organization of American States in the '90s, Schey forced the U.S. government to stop automatically returning Haitian boat people apprehended at sea before they had a chance to petition for asylum in the U.S."

"Because of Schey's negotiations with the State Department, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, Haiti's first democratically elected president, who was ousted in a military coup, returned to power in 1994."

 

[GCdreamer2006]

I called the number you provided but nobody answered. I also sent him an e-mail and let's see if I get reply. This is what I said in the e-mail:

Dear Peter Schey,

I am an engineer and I have a pending US pemanent residency application filed on my behalf by an American employer in Seattle, WA back in April 2002.

The latest delay in my greencard process, according to the US Department of State, it is due to lack of visa numbers for the Employment Base greencard applicants. I keep renewing my temporary Employment Authorization Document and other costly documentations to myself and my family on yearly basis. I pay taxes every year but I don't have rights to get a dime in benefits in case I lose my job. The employment base immigrant community has attempted to contact US Senators and request a remedy to our situation, but so far we have only experienced bottlenecks transferred from one immigration agency to another. There are thousands of people in similar situation. In April 2001, the President Clinton granted an amnesty to illegal aliens (245i) and that used up visa numbers to a point where we now, the legal immigrants, are left behind and in an uncertain queue living a half-life with our families in the US.

I would like to talk to you and find out whether there is possibility to take legal action to get this greencard process moving at a decent and more fair pace. Recently we hear conversations about guest-worker programs or amnesty for illegals and I am afraid that can again overhelm the USCIS system and cause an unfair consequence to legal greencard applicants.

I would appreciate talking to you to discuss further details.

Thank you,

Greencard Dreamer
Engineer
Seattle, WA
Myphone

 

[sobers]

leave 'guestworker' out

One sugestion,
This guy has done a lot of work on behalf of illegals and so it would be unwise to out them down in your email. atleast do not harp on this issue in your phone call.

 

[can_card]

I agree with some of you that Lawsuit may be a fitting answer to the EB Retro problem.

I do not want to discourage the hopes of folks who have put a lot off efforts to get the attention of the mandarins. I strongly - support the move for Class A law suit for taking the engineers for a ride with the hope of getting GCs and eventually the folks leave back SS Tax for which they are not eligible to get due to their nationality.

Once the lawsuit gets enough publicity and media attention, the GOVT will positively use a backdoor method to clear the existing problem. But it may cost the new H1s of not getting the benefit of being eligible to get the GC.

I have contributed a decent amount to Immigration Voice, I do not mind chipping in couple of hundered if they can atleast get our Social Security Tax money to our accounts into the country we would go back to - Say Provident Fund - India, or CPF if Singapore. I strongly think this is worth the effort. At least you stand to get 50,000 Dollars or so. Even if you did not get the GC, you atleast get back your own hard earned money which can be useful for your future investments. - If the GOVT of US senses this loss, they might accelerate the process of giving GC, since they can milk the engineers out of the Tax Dollars and in addtion get their Social Security contribution and they need not part with it, since this $ is vital for US economy and medicare expenses.

Are you kidding? No way US government return the SS money back to immigrants returning back to home countries. US government is in big deficit. It is starving for money. Bush administration cutting all popular public benefits. US People are worried about SS money or benefits from it as it is expected to bankrupt. It is very difficult to get back, unless government of India involves and fight for it.

Other way of getting benefit is, request them to to GC for everyone, who has lived in US legally for five years and paid taxes/SS etc.

 

[sundar99]

Looks like you guys are missing the point..

I just missed the above person's - post name..

Most countries have Tax Treaties, so the money from SS does go out. Please go and check the list of countries before being negative on this. Singapore has just signed a Free Trade Agreement. India also has given representation, but not much progress on this. Since Prez is visitng India next month, this can be taken up on Joint - Billateral coop if we convince our North Block folks on the free $ potential that they could get as investment into india at no extra cost, but a diplomatic initiative. This means, we can atleast hope for PF account into which this $ can get deposited.

We need to work on this action Plan :
1. Continue to pursue with various agencies to ensure - EB Retro issues.2
2. Slap a Law suit to the govt on the grounds - Social Security money does not benefit Aliens - unless they become PRs, (Remember L2, and other categories do not pay for it). Ask them to make this optional - if folks want to keep the GC process.
3. Ensure the $ amount is returned to the individual if he goes back to his country - to this govt agencies such as PF (India)., CPF in Singapore and Malaysia and so on.

2 and 3 will make the US GOVT wake up. Also, Send out 1000's of Faxes to Washington DC Indian embassy on the SS money and also emails to Prez, PMO in India on how they can milk the $$$ of all NRIs on Temp Visas in US, and how this money can be used / invested in infrastructure development. Believe me, you cannot sue the govt for slow EB Visa Process. They can come up with intelligent excuses. But asking back the money if the individula did not apply/did not get his GC is more logical. Yes, the Govt wants to keep the money., but the law suit is meant to go after the GOVT. Mind you, India and China will be the biggest beneficiaries or Losers !

I know folks are sceptical., an idea remains with you unless you try it in reality, then it becomes innovation. Unless you believe in yourself you will make it, you cannot convince the world. Ask yourself, is this not your money ?, Do you want it, and then go in a legal way and get it. The whole process of GC itself is Discrimination and racial for Indians and CHineses folks who form the core of brilliant folks in all areas of expertise.

Folks in all companies should move their butts, and contribute to some org like Immi Voice and expect them to File a Class A lawsuit on this, if you are one of those who reads a post and moves on, you and others would not get anything out of it, please help the cause, without being negative. Do not expect uncle sam to post you the GC by mail without you putting efforts

 

[saras76]

I am not assuming anything

Saras76,

You are assuming that our EB problem is solveable in the short-term when you stated that our argument could be countered by the claim that this is a temporary situation. How long the immigration agencies have been claiming this problem would be fixed ? I remember that the exactly same argument that the process was going to be streamlined and a lawsuit was a waste of our energy was used three years ago. Yet we find ourselves stuck again in the greencard queue, paying renewals evey year. I just renewed my EAD+AP and spent $800. I used to spend $1,800/year with H1B renewal. I paid $7,000 in federal taxes this year alone and I don't get a dime in benefits if I lose my job.

The DOL process was streamlined, but then it caused backlogs at USCIS. Now yes, perhaps people will manage to increase visa numbers - although very difficult due to the immigration reduction sentiment. However, don't forget that we have the prospect of an amnesty or at minimum a guest-worker program coming for an astonishing number of people:12+million illegal aliens. Some statistics claim that actually there are 25 million illegal aliens. Based on the number of illegals coming to my neighborhood on daily basis, I believe the latter is a more realistic number. Don't forget we have 10,000/day crossing the borders.

What I am saying is that if you keep relying on the lobbying effort and assume that our EB issue will be resolved on the short or medium-term, you may disappoint yourself again. Even if the Congress goes against the American people and increase the visa numbers, then the next bottleneck may well be amnesty or guest-worker program and we would be put in this endless queue again. We need a lawsuit running in parallel with the lobbying efforts.

GCdreamer2006,

You misunderstood me. I said that the government will counter our claim by stating that this problem is temporary. Everyone knows that this problem is not temporary but how are we going to prove that in court. I totally agree with you regarding the unfairness of this system. I have paid for 3 EADs and APs and have been paying my taxes for over 6 years now. I do not even know how much that adds up to. I have lost count. My arguement is that we do not have a strong legal case against the government because there are way to many loopholes they can exploit.

For those stuck in endless "Name Check" delays, a lawsuit is a good idea.

regards,

saras76

 

[jazzyb]

By Filing a Lawsuit we will not SS back but the deaf goverment will work to fix the broken immigration system, atleast they will hear and will understand that they need us as much as we need GC.
The point is to make them understand that they also need us. All U.S Government Departments are efficient and have system in place and they do care about not wasting the people's tax money, but immigration department is the only one which works in most haphazard way and play with immigrants lives and do not even care to fix this system so we have to make a noise so that they hear us and we do not have to beg.

Raise your voice and get up stop begging for GC.

Are you kidding? No way US government return the SS money back to immigrants returning back to home countries. US government is in big deficit. It is starving for money. Bush administration cutting all popular public benefits. US People are worried about SS money or benefits from it as it is expected to bankrupt. It is very difficult to get back, unless government of India involves and fight for it.

Other way of getting benefit is, request them to to GC for everyone, who has lived in US legally for five years and paid taxes/SS etc.

 

[sundar99]

To add further :

Once there is a lawsuit, they may fund the INS to clear the backlogs faster, the only dept that can be least funded shud be INS since it does not affect americans.

We got to standup and speakup on the free money on which their butts are resting. If we shake thier butts, they will wakeup to do some useful work, and also understand the impact of losing SS. On the otherhand someone commented about a lawsuit not holding waters. One - Since we are not GC holders, it is a right for the freedom of movement and also the SS $, since we have a claim to it. A lawsuit would work as long as there is collective participation and also backing from our own GOvts. It is not a one individual benefit, it should be shown as a collective initiative. This will obviously is going to stir a lot off interest.

it is almost like the British times ( Like LAGAAN Movie -if u can refresh, where they take everything from us, excpet that we are in their land)

By Filing a Lawsuit we will not SS back but the deaf goverment will work to fix the broken immigration system, atleast they will hear and will understand that they need us as much as we need GC.
The point is to make them understand that they also need us. All U.S Government Departments are efficient and have system in place and they do care about not wasting the people's tax money, but immigration department is the only one which works in most haphazard way and play with immigrants lives and do not even care to fix this system so we have to make a noise so that they hear us and we do not have to beg.

Raise your voice and get up stop begging for GC.