a request of people who live in S.F.

comcast

Registered Users (C)
If you live in S.F. please consider join in freedom-loving people in protesting the Olympic torch. I took part in the London protest and it was a meaningful way to register my disgust with the Chinese Government.
 

cafeconleche

Registered Users (C)
I wish I could have been a part of one of the protests (I'm from SF, but I live in Amsterdam for now). However, the Chinese government isn't the only one with blood on its hands. Even the British government (London 2012) is guilty. They're in Iraq, they don't do anything about their multinationals with terrible human rights records, they secretly use torture and rendition, and the list goes on. Every country is guilty of human rights abuses. Some more than others. So, my question is, did you or would you have protested against previous torch relays?

By the way, how about boycotting Chinese goods (wherever possible...). I'm not attacking you. You and I are probably on the same page in general. I'm just trying to start a dialogue, I guess. This may not be the place to begin, but, oh well :)

Cheers, comcast.
 

comcast

Registered Users (C)
I have taken part in more anti-war protests (on both American and British soils) then I care to remember.

The main difference between China and the free world: you can protest against whoever you wish in the free world. When George Bush was in Germany two years ago, the protests were so huge that his motorcade could barely move around. Allowing people to protest is a sign of a properous and strong country. Without it the country is never a real superpower.

The free world also has a free press and an impartial judiciary whereas China has neither.

Most importantly, the free world has elections. Bush will be history soon and David Cameron is on his way to beat Gordon Brown.

So do not compare apples and oranges. UK is a free world and China is hell.
 

wantmygcnow

Volunteer Moderator
I have taken part in more anti-war protests (on both American and British soils) then I care to remember.

The main difference between China and the free world: you can protest against whoever you wish in the free world. When George Bush was in Germany two years ago, the protests were so huge that his motorcade could barely move around. Allowing people to protest is a sign of a properous and strong country. Without it the country is never a real superpower.

The free world also has a free press and an impartial judiciary whereas China has neither.

Most importantly, the free world has elections. Bush will be history soon and David Cameron is on his way to beat Gordon Brown.

So do not compare apples and oranges. UK is a free world and China is hell.

The average chinese citizen that I know(h1) are happy and disagree with people who want more freedom.

Also what has boycotting or anything done? U.S boycotted 1980 olympics, what happened? Russia didn't leave Afghanistan until 9 years later. Olympics is sports based, they should not use it for political purposes in my opinion. Most of these protesters have other agendas.
 

thankful

Registered Users (C)
The average chinese citizen that I know(h1) are happy and disagree with people who want more freedom.

Also what has boycotting or anything done? U.S boycotted 1980 olympics, what happened? Russia didn't leave Afghanistan until 9 years later. Olympics is sports based, they should not use it for political purposes in my opinion. Most of these protesters have other agendas.

Most Chinese I know hate the Chinese government.
 
T

The.Walker

Guest
I'd like to apologize but it's complete bogus. Sports and politics are two completely different affairs. Boycott G-8 meetings and we shall have a decent conversation, boycotting Olympics, an event that unites the entire world is utter rubbish. Lets not mix politics with sports. They don't go together well.
 

ykasumov

Registered Users (C)
I'd like to apologize but it's complete bogus. Sports and politics are two completely different affairs. Boycott G-8 meetings and we shall have a decent conversation, boycotting Olympics, an event that unites the entire world is utter rubbish. Lets not mix politics with sports. They don't go together well.

I agree with Walker and others.
Good thing about western countries that they have opposition where one can protest (with or without success). In countries like china you protest and you end up in prison in most cases. Whether majority of chinese like the conditions in the country we might never know as limited amount of information is available from there. Ones who get asylum in US obviously hate china for various reasons, ones who happy - we might never hear their side of the story on this forum.....
However, I certainly agree that all countries in the world including US have lots of room for improvement - take waterbording, Guantanomo Bay prison, all kind of torture in Iraq and other countries by US military.
Anyone ever seen "rendition" or "kingdom" - newest movies from Hollywood on this topic?
 

jonny1

Registered Users (C)
if you care about human right and freedom, you can't ignore the sufferings of the tibetan people!
Communist China is using the olympic of unity as a communist lies and propaganda and killes tIbetans.
FRee Tibet
 

thankful

Registered Users (C)
I want to praise British PM Gordon Brown for his decision to skip the Olympic opening ceremony.

The beauty of democracy: He did not want to give Cameron an advantage among voters who are repulsed by the Chinese misconduct.

Both German Chancellor Merkel and French President Sarkozy have hinted that they were not going unless China changed its conduct. Time for George Bush to join.
 
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thankful

Registered Users (C)
I'd like to apologize but it's complete bogus. Sports and politics are two completely different affairs. Boycott G-8 meetings and we shall have a decent conversation, boycotting Olympics, an event that unites the entire world is utter rubbish. Lets not mix politics with sports. They don't go together well.

Olympics have always been tied to politics. It is unfortunate but it is the reality.
 

WoosterLad

Registered Users (C)
I have to say, you've all got good points and there's no right or wrong answer. Personally, I'm torn about what the right thing to do is. On the one hand, I would love to boycott the Olympics altogether and make a statement about China's abysmal human rights and environmental record. On the other hand, I'd hate to rob these athletes of their moment in the sun and the great sense of pride and achievement they get from pacticipating in the Olympics. To add to CafeConLeche's point, if we decide to boycott the Olympics, what about boycotting the Western multinationals that are pumping billions into investments in China and millions into sponsorships for the Olymics? One of the big reasons China is prospering is because of our thirst for cheap, Chinese-made products. Who do we boycott for that?

My point is, all of you have noble intentions and should do what your heart tells you to. It has to be a personal decision that everyone else must respect.
 

ykasumov

Registered Users (C)
I have to say, you've all got good points and there's no right or wrong answer. Personally, I'm torn about what the right thing to do is. On the one hand, I would love to boycott the Olympics altogether and make a statement about China's abysmal human rights and environmental record. On the other hand, I'd hate to rob these athletes of their moment in the sun and the great sense of pride and achievement they get from pacticipating in the Olympics. To add to CafeConLeche's point, if we decide to boycott the Olympics, what about boycotting the Western multinationals that are pumping billions into investments in China and millions into sponsorships for the Olymics? One of the big reasons China is prospering is because of our thirst for cheap, Chinese-made products. Who do we boycott for that?

My point is, all of you have noble intentions and should do what your heart tells you to. It has to be a personal decision that everyone else must respect.

That's exactly right.
If we really want to boycott china, then we need to check every single item we buy at walmart and everywhere else as most of it is "made in china".
Olympics is the great sport event and despite the controversial selection of location such as china let the best team win!
 

jonny1

Registered Users (C)
being aTibetan and non violance and understanding in belief, Tibetans and supporters are not anti olympic or anti games or anti athletes.
We are against Communist china being awarded the olympic in first place.
Communist china promised to improve human rights when it was awarded the olympic by the stupid IOC.
When China did instead? They instead began massacaring Tibetans in Tibet while they are carrying out thos torch raley.

Political leaders like Bush must at least boycott the opening ceremony and comdemn publicly about China's killings of Tibetans simoltaniously.
America which stands for freedom and equal justice went to war with Iraq and afganistan in the name of human rights and democracy, what is its reponse to the Chinese genocide in Tibet? We know Congress supports Tibet, infact many congress members on both side are very supportive of Dalai Lama and Tibet issue and just yesterday passed a bill comdeming China. But what about bush? He went crazy when Sadam killed iraqis and Bin Laden killed mani Afaganis.
Tibet has very strong bipartisan support of Congress members and we know that for long time!
China invaded TIbet and 1.2 million Tibetans have died under China's brutal occupation of Tibet.
Us congress is now annoucing they will ask state department to open a first ever US Consulate in Lhasa, Tibet so it can independently monitor the situation there.

look at what communist are doing

http://bcsikhs.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3570

www.savetibet.org
 

thankful

Registered Users (C)
Political leaders like Bush must at least boycott the opening ceremony

I think you are getting your wish.

UN Secretary General, Mr. Ban Ki-moon and Canadian PM Stephen Harper are now saying that they will not go. Ban's decision is significant because he represents the entire world and he is also an Asian.

Now the question is how will Bush react. Does he want this to become a campaign liability for his party? Senators Clinton and Obama are urging him to skip the ceremony. I hope McCain will join soon.
 

thankful

Registered Users (C)
Take a look at this article. If the security goons are so rude on foreign soil imagine their brutality back home in China. Remember these goons are also involved in killing people in Tibet.


Turned Off by Torch Guards
Beijing Battles Accusations of Rough Tactics by 'Sacred Flame Protection Unit'

By Edward Cody
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, April 11, 2008; A12



BEIJING, April 10 -- As protesters besiege the Olympic torch on its global tour, a phalanx of tall, tough-looking young Chinese men in blue-and-white running gear have vigorously protected the flame -- too vigorously in the eyes of those who consider protest a constitutional right.

With their steely demeanor and strong-arm tactics, they have become a symbol of what is going wrong for Chinese authorities who had hoped to make the 2008 Beijing Games a worldwide celebration of China's friendly new face.

Sebastian Coe, chairman of the Olympic organizing committee for 2012 in London, called the men "thugs" and said they had pushed him around when the flame passed through the city Sunday. A spokeswoman for the Paris police, Marie Lajus, said the men had failed to coordinate with local authorities when they grabbed the torch and put out the flame during protests in the French capital Monday. One torchbearer described them as aggressive and robotic; another called them tense and irritable.

A San Francisco police spokesman, Sgt. Neville Gittens, said city authorities debated whether to allow the Chinese guards to participate in the ceremonies planned Wednesday for the torch's only stop in North America. In the end, the guards stayed, but the torch was secretly rerouted to avoid protesters.

Fleeing the public and accusations of thuggery were not what Beijing municipal and Olympic organizing committee authorities had in mind last August when they held a public ceremony to swear in the Beijing Olympic Games Sacred Flame Protection Unit. The special squad was made up of closely vetted volunteers from the special forces academy of the paramilitary People's Armed Police, state-controlled news media reported.

Resentment of the Chinese guards in London and Paris was heightened by apparent efforts to maintain secrecy about who they were. After the complaints in London, British police refused to be specific. Police in Paris said they were not really sure.

Olympic officials in Beijing, meanwhile, said the guards were specially trained student volunteers but did not say from which school. China's Internet censors also removed long-standing online reports of the August swearing-in ceremony.

At the time, the reports said the volunteer policemen were chosen for their height, proportion and good physical condition. The reports also said the young men had received special training in five foreign languages -- learning words such as "back" and "forward" -- and were taught good manners, as well as how to drive cars and motorcycles in convoys along crowd-lined streets.

Jacques Rogge, president of the International Olympic Committee, said in Beijing on Thursday that surrounding the torch with private security agents has become "standard practice" in pre-Olympic relays. He did not differentiate between private security and China's People's Armed Police, which has been used extensively in recent weeks to put down protests in Tibet and other Tibetan-inhabited areas -- the conflict that inspired most of those demonstrating abroad as the torch passed.

China's civilian and military authorities have joint command over the People's Armed Police, nearly 700,000 men and women assigned to protect foreign embassies in Beijing along with suppressing riots, controlling the border and fighting fires. But their standard police tactics for China, where state authority is enforced with an iron hand, were bound to not play well during the Olympic torch's stops in London, Paris and San Francisco.

"China's Thugs," said a headline in London's Evening Standard newspaper. "Flame farce with Chinese heavies, jogging police and riotous demos," the Daily Mail said.

Against that background, Michael Phelan, the police chief in Canberra, Australia, told reporters that the Chinese squad would have no role when the flame stops in the Australian capital April 24, despite reports of planned protests.

Other stops where the flame's guards appear likely to be tested are April 17 in New Delhi, where India's large community of Tibetan exiles will have access; April 26 in Nagano, Japan, a country with a tradition of open demonstrations; and May 2 in Hong Kong, where residents are used to challenging Beijing. The torch will be in Buenos Aires on Friday.

Within mainland China, authorities have vowed to go ahead with a relay leg in Tibet, including an ascent of Mount Everest, despite the violence last month in Lhasa, the Tibetan capital, and plans for protests by Tibet independence campaigners. But Olympic organizers have refused to be pinned down on dates for the climb.

The Beijing Organizing Committee for the Olympic Games has not told foreign correspondents whether they will be able to cover the Tibet leg. As things stand, foreign journalists have been barred from entering the region, where People's Armed Police have been deployed in large numbers.

The impression left by the Olympic torch guards in London and Paris illustrated the gap between Chinese authorities' idea of crowd control and those of societies with guarantees of free speech and assembly. When the torch arrived in Beijing on March 31, the Tiananmen Square welcoming ceremony was untroubled -- mostly because People's Armed Police had closed the venue to anyone without a pass.

In addition, the senior Communist Party officials responsible for China's Olympic preparations have little experience of foreign societies and their values. The two top Olympic officials -- Xi Jinping of the Politburo's Standing Committee and Liu Qi, the Beijing party secretary -- rose through party ranks in provincial assignments.

Kang Xiaoguang, a sociology researcher at Beijing's Renmin University, said Chinese authorities appear determined to prevent protests, by foreigners as well as Chinese, during both the domestic torch relay and the athletic events in August. Some might argue that the Chinese government would gain by tolerating demonstrators, but that is not the way officials in Beijing think, Kang said.

Moreover, the official mood appears to have hardened since the rioting in Tibet. Since the violence, in which 22 people were killed, Chinese authorities have harshly condemned foreign news media and supporters of Tibet.

When House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) seemed to encourage demonstrators in San Francisco, for instance, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Jiang Yu, accused her of lacking "morality and conscience." Jiang added, "It is clear that kind of person has ulterior motives to disturb and sabotage the Olympic torch relay in San Francisco and elsewhere over and over."

Correspondents Mary Jordan in London and John Ward Anderson in Paris contributed to this report.
 
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wendy_beijing

Registered Users (C)
Yeah in tracksuit gaurding the olympic torch are Chinese thugs.
China not only kills Tibetans inside Tibet but those including nuns and kids while they were fleeing Tibet to nepal,

see this shocking video captured by some romanian mount everest trackers.

http://www.lirung.com/news/NangpaLaShooting.html

Many Han Chinese are also victims of the butchers in Beijing. The Communists murdered my parents when I was an infant.
 
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wendy_beijing

Registered Users (C)
This is off topic but it shows what a superpower the Chinese are building up--(a superpower contributing to illegal immigration everywhere)--. I am being sarcastic.


ajc.com > Metro > DeKalb
33 arrested in Chamblee immigration raid

By MARY LOU PICKEL
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/11/08
Federal agents arrested 33 people Friday during a work site immigration raid in Chamblee.

Seven people were charged criminally and 26 were charged with administrative immigration violations, said Patrick Crosby, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office for the Northern District of Georgia.

Agents from the FBI, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and other federal agencies served a federal search warrant at 3245 Chamblee Dunwoody Road early Friday afternoon, said Crosby.

Four employment agencies were involved in the raid, Crosby said: Number One Employment Agency; Da Zhong Employment Agency; Ji Chang Employment Agency; and Sing Rong Employment Agency.

Crosby would not say what criminal charges were filed against the suspects. They are now in federal custody.

ICE agents previously busted Sin Sin Employment Agency in Chamblee in 2005. The couple who ran the agency placed thousands of illegal workers in restaurants in several states. They were convicted of conspiracy and fraud related to immigrant smuggling and were sentenced to prison.

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