A follow up article......

Absolutely not.........PatienceGC

It's not that ..........You got me all wrong......... I liked the article so I wanted it to share it with others.....

I also did mention......Do not bring up the religion thing and abuse each other........ But as dma_va said nothing wrong in a discussion.............I was impressed by the author, his knowledge his way of writing and I learnt a few things.........So did I gathered information for others views with some very good posts....

For most part..........I liked the article........but I too think being Indian is more important than being a HINDU Indian, Muslim Indian....maybe the author missed out on that..... But he has other valid points against other religions.....

PaitenceGC.........your comment "Being a Tamilian ......".........Now whats up with that............."Why wasn't it being an Indian".........
I understand whats going on between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu is crazy!!!!!!!!! But you could have said it in a diff way....

gcwait0902::::

**********
. Hey, Guess what! I am comman middle class woman from India. I lived 26 years in INdia. I have travelled in public buses and tasted the so called women rights and liberation. Bullshit! I wasn't even treated well my own family members because I was a woman. Though highly educated and ever made more money than any men in my family.

*********

Now that's where the problem is.........."if your own family members didn't treat you right............ " (no offense meant....)


Guys.........I just wanted everyone to peck the good things from that article........."Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder" ... See the good things..........not the bad.

I am really glad everyone contributed with their views.........Some guys on this forum really impress me with their depth of knowledge and writting skills........ Myself not being a very good writer , debator......tried to abstain ..........but PatienceGC pulled me in...... :)

Guys......keep posting .......share your knowledge.....We all need a break from this GC wait.........

Keep it clean.......:)

Good luck everyone.......

PS: It's friday............July16........Time for a laugh....
 
Tusker75,

Dare u say again that u r not a good writer/debator etc.

U indeed spoke ur mind very neatly.
 
Women libration plays vital role for the development of the country

I must share....
If you really look back probably 100 years before in US, women were in the same status like in India now. During the world war period there was a strong nesscessity for women to work. From then onwards the number of women goes to work steadily risen to real high numbers(I guess more than 70% of the women in us goes to work). Nowadays household economic situation forced many women to stay at work or go to work, that altogether is a different story. The point I am driving here is women in US enjoys more freedom than any other country. They have become more Self Dependent. As Gandhi wanted in India Women in US can go at midnight anywhere without much issues.Then there are other issues look at how many single moms, look at how many divorse cases I am not talking about those things. All I am saying women in US is much more happier than India.

I agree with the fact the GCWAIT was mentioning how women are treated in India. I am not sympathizing or empathizing with anybody I am just raising my point of view. In India I have lived in villages, cities and mega cities. As GCWAIT was pointing, there are somany illtreatments against Women in India.

The only solution to this problem is Literacy. As GCWAIT was telling. there are lot of people lives in villages in India. We need to educate all those people which will eventually will bring lot of wisdom to people which will then raise women freedom and everything.....

We already made impact to certain extent on the society by being in US(prospering ourselves)whether we want it or not....

Aa a CItizen of India we can expedite the process by being more supportive and finding ways to help India.... After all we are all son and daughter of India first.... if you don't help who is going to help....



:( :D :rolleyes:
 
tusker75

Well I was surprised that someone found it surprising to see such comments from a 'Tamilian'. There is a stereotypical view of a Tamilian as being a highly accented timid person who has 3 lines of sacred ash on his forehead. At least that’s how most Tamils are portrayed in north Indian films and serials. We usually don’t pick fights with others but that doesn’t mean we are timid. Tamil is a national language of many countries.

Now coming to my point about 'being Tamilian'… I considered myself as an Indian but what is happening to Tamilnadu is cruel. We don’t have water and Karnataka has been directed by the Supreme court to release water. But the CM is openly defying the order and in my opinion is ridiculing the whole judicial system of India. The Indian govt seems to feel that it isnt their problem and are clearly more interested in other matters. We are talking about two states on the verge of killing hundreds of Indians. Do people understand the economic impact of the 'Bandhs'? India cannot afford such things if it wants to improve. TN is probably going to switch off electricity to Karnataka. Tamilnadu has always been the stepchild. We paid 600+ crores to Andhra for water and interestingly water didn’t flow to TN but the money has helped in irrigating AP lands along the way of the proposed water line! There is an acute water shortage and my parents are thinking about moving elsewhere. The farmers are suffering heavy loses. TN govts have been dismissed for no reason. If the supreme court and the central govt cannot resolve the dispute what is the friggin use of being called as 'India'?

On a lighter note the matter is so serious that TN people have started hating and protesting against Rajinikanth becuz he is from Karnataka (actually he is a Maharashtrian :D ) if you know anything about Tamilians and cinema... you'll understand the gravity of the situation ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No hard feelings PaitenceGC......

Tamil being the national language of many countries and Karnataka not sharing water.........doesn't give you the right to call yourself a "Tamilian" instead of "Indian".....:) ..........

3 lines on forehead, north india.......those are not valid points ...c'mon.....gimme something better......... Here (in US)......you find....a joke made on their president......
And don't tell me you don't enjoy "sardar" jokes.........:D
poor sardar's......and north indian's.......(My point..........wasn't a good argument to call yourself tamil :) )

I have a lot of friends who are tamil..........and everyone knows that they are smart, intelligent, hardworking people.........

But still.......you shouldn't have said "Tamilian"....:D

PatienceGC.........you can count yourself among the tamils will the above skill sets.;) .......... Your views and posts are already appreciated........

dma_va..........thanks for those encouraging words.

Again, a nice clean thread.......very informative........
 
tusker75

I don't know what you mean by the following

gcwait0902::::

**********
. Hey, Guess what! I am comman middle class woman from India. I lived 26 years in INdia. I have travelled in public buses and tasted the so called women rights and liberation. Bullshit! I wasn't even treated well my own family members because I was a woman. Though highly educated and ever made more money than any men in my family.

*********

Now that's where the problem is.........."if your own family members didn't treat you right............ " (no offense meant....)

But, if you are questioning my altitude because I said highly educated and ever made more money than other men and justifing mis-treatment because of that, I feel pity for you. Nice trick though. But you are wrong. But even if you are correct, why should the qualities that is seen in a more positive way in the U.S (like confident,smartness and independent etc) is seen as pure arrogance only when it comes from a woman?
How does it make it right to make me eat the left over food what the whole family of men wouldn't eat? just for an example...My education and money can not make me arrogant. These incidences would make me one. Again I can purely understand what you guys think. If I were one among you, I would have the same mind set. ha! It is a rare case. It is not comman! Doesn't happen to most people! No, It happens all the time. You have to have an eye to see it.

I red that article from that French Writer too. For eg, he compares the safety in India and in the U.S. He mentions that he could walk freely in India in mid night but was warned againt walking on the road in the U.S around 8.P.M. Well I was warned too by the local people not to go by alone after 8 P.M. I just realised that people wants to avoid problem before hand. I did walk on the mainstreet with my friends around 12 P.M.Nothing happened to us. But know this. We could not walk alone under the bright sun light around 12:00 noon in India. I still remember the incidence which is just so disgusting even to write here. It happened to couple of us (girls) in the middle of the metropolitan city. Were there people around? yes, sir. Very much. Did anyone do anything? Yes, everyone did onething. Ignore it. That is the safety we are talking about. I won't be surprised if someone would ask me now I should have reported to the police? Because that is how easy you guys think.

In fact we used to walk crossing the slum area , in my middle years of my carreer life till 9 P.M in the night,to reach home short cut. Then they built a big police station. Guess what! We stopped taking that route any more. We are scared of the police station and policemen. Not even of the rowdies.

Hey, this is the reality. Go ahead cover up and live. Praise the demacracy and Freedom in India. Compare them with the U.S.
It is Friday ... Go home and drink...or whatever.
 
everything is perfect in india but the political leaders.
and above anti-social element(indep lady) needs some serious mental treatment.
 
A great thread ... keep it up

Great discussion.

I laughed after reading this from one of misman's posts.

"If columbus would have found India all indians would have been obsolete now... I guess we should be happy he did n't find us... "

Why shouldn't we have a seperate forum to discuss and find probable solutions related our loved country? I suggest dma_va should lead it.

I read about some orgnization which started among student community in one of US universities to help India. After going thru all your postings everyone here is a great lover of his/her country. Instead of talking or writing why can't we start doing something??

My wife is pregnant and her due date is dec 20th. I have been in dilemma whether we should have our baby here as US citizen or in India as Indian citizen. Again sometime I think that do I have right to decide the citizenship of my child? Since it is happening here let it happen here, do I need to take a DECISION to decide citizenship? confused......

You (or some of you) may disagree with me or may laugh at me. Though I decided to apply for GC my heart and soul are in India, without spending my reasonable part of my life in India serving needy people I am not complete.

Just because of my writing skills I am just reader of this thread but could not contribute much.

To keep like minded people in touch I suggest to have a seperate forum (Eg: at groups.Yahoo.com) to discuss our ideas.

DMA_VA, what do you think?
 
My thoughts ....

Guys

I believe this site is meant for posting GC related issues and clarifications. But I could not refrain or resist posting my thoughts as I went through this thread. I shall try my best to keep it brief.

There is no point in bragging about past glory. No doubt India was a great country centuries ago and we were one of the ancient civilizations of the world. But what we do now is more important. No doubt Hinduism is one of the greatest religions and I would endorse it as the most intellectual religion in the world. They have explored and explained so many concepts and scientific themes centuries ago, that modern science is still trying to explore. No doubt about that. But it does not mean it’s a superior religion – No religion is superior from the divinity point of view. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” – What preaching could be simpler and consecrated? I believe religions should be cementing forces not dividing forces. But the reality is not – All religions have created atrocities to people having different faith at different point in History. Hinduism might be better, more magnanimous in that aspect – but it’s not an exception.

Yes, our people encouraged, helped, persuaded welcomed people from different parts of the world with different faith and our kings built temples for them – That’s history – What does it show – It exhibits the intellectual and spiritual maturity that we possessed
And that’s what exactly USA does today. This country is great in all aspects …
So instead of trying to criticize, grumble and compare this country, lets try to improve ours without painting religious colors. Perhaps we should try to adopt good things from this place if we could, rather than trying to prove our past glory – Past is Past.

The point most readers was trying to prove was- Hindus remained /remain tolerant, adjusting, sociable, benevolent and accommodating – It would have been much better and correct, if they had said Indians instead of Hindus. If you read Indus valley civilization, there were no names of Hindu Gods present at the initial stages.

I would like to conclude this with another thought. I would extend this Hindus versus rest analogy (Hindus being tolerant, benevolent, accommodating) to Tamilians and the rest of the Indians. Why in the world, no one cares or notices, if people call them Gujju, Punjabi, Marathi, Bihari but when someone uses the word “Tamilian” why there is a huge cry and fuss? I simply cannot get it. As long as we don’t change this attitude India will not improve – and I will continue to say – I relish being a Tamilian rather than an Indian.
 
DESI485

No, I am not anti-social. I have lots of friends and still have my family around me to help and support. I was only describing the real incidences ina day to day life in India. I do understand it is very hard to accept such harsh words from a woman. It is normal. That is fine. But I am not lying. I never said I was independent. Very much emotionally dependent.

Yes, everything is perfect in India if you want to see only what you want to see.
 
Dec17RD,

Thanks for ur kind words.

As for ur confusion for ur child's citizenship, I think u still haven't understood the import of what I was trying to say. It's not an issue of where one should be born. It's a matter of not loosing one's identity. Ur child may as well be born in USA, but that won't make her/him any less of what u would want her/him to be. It's the culture, principles that u going to pass-on which would help her/him with an identity.

I feel happy that there r at least a few who agreed with my viewpoints just like there r a lot of others who still don't agree with me. That's fine. We r justing putting our thoughts across here.

Mr. Perfect,

It's not at all a matter of being Hindu, Muslim, Sikh etc. It's a matter of not loosing ur identity coz

a)there r people/nations who still don't know who we r

b)that would have been fine, but then these same people/nations try to creae a new identity of ours thru what they deem as right

c)to them, it seems there is no difference b/w a sheep and us

d)religion/fundamenatlism/conversion r just some of the tools that these people/nations want to use to make us behave/live the way they want

What is a religion? To me personally, it is like a book/temple/sculpture/article/movie/novel which should provide me solace/guidance/knowledge in times of my needs. A book doesn't call me to read it. if I feel like, I'll open it and read it.

Same way, I'd go to a temple if it will give me some joy or fun or peace. I don't have to brag about it to people around me. By reading a book, I haven't become superior to anyone. It's none of my business what the other perosn wants to read or enjoy.

But being a part of a nation is a different matter. I may be person believing in universal citizenship but I if I want to live in a civil society, I must consider myself as a unit of this society. I don't want to loose my identity in this society. This society allows people of differnt nations to live together. But they all r equal as far as nationhood is concerned.
If someone, tries to mould my identity, I have a right to react coz I have the power of judgement to decide who I am. I don't want someone to change me just as I don't want to do the same to somebody else.

Eveyone who is faithful to Indian flag/land is an Indian first and everything else later(and this is a law of the land for any people of any nation on this earth). India is not an exception.

Ideally speaking, I would not want to even know if I am talking to a Tamilian or Sikh or Jat or Brahamin or Malyali or Jain (BTW, to my knowledge these r all Hindus) or Muslim or Christian. If the person is from India, to me that person is Indian.

This is just like I don't know if Mr. Smith is from TX or CA or NY (or jeweller, potter or farmer). All I know is he is an American.

The only reason why in India we have so much talk of religions, castes etc. is coz out priorities r misplaced. And politicians and rich always took advantage of that. They want a common man to always be at the front as a communal tool in their lust of power.

We want to have separate battalions even in armed forces (rajputana, maratha, gorkha etc.). All this looks very ridiculous and painful to me. I think in any war, we already loose the first battle coz we fight based on which regiment is at the front and which is not.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You are welcome.........free4all

It's been a very healthy discussion and it will certainly help all of us....

Must say.........I agree to dma_va's view point and his post wrt mrperfect was very apt.

***********

. I would extend this Hindus versus rest analogy (Hindus being tolerant, benevolent, accommodating) to Tamilians and the rest of the Indians. Why in the world, no one cares or notices, if people call them Gujju, Punjabi, Marathi, Bihari but when someone uses the word “Tamilian” why there is a huge cry and fuss? I simply cannot get it. As long as we don’t change this attitude India will not improve – and I will continue to say – I relish being a Tamilian rather than an Indian.

************

mrperfect.......I didn't get you on that.......... Hindus being tolerant.........to tamilians !!!!...Aren't tamilians hindus......I know there are christians and maybe muslim tamils..........But again.......I don't care about it.... Like dma_va said..........being Indian is more important than being a Tamil or what not....

You very smartly hinted towards my post by saying "why there is a huge cry........." I must appreciate it....... :)........... I have no problems for you calling yourself tamilian........or a gujju calling himself gujju or what not............BUT..........One must relish being an Indian first.............



:)
 
Hello Tusker75

I said I am extending the anolgy of "Hindus being tolerant, benevolent, accommodating" to "Tamilians being tolerant, benevolent, accomodating to other Indians."

My reaction was not soley to your post. There had been quite a few instances in this forum as well as in many other places ...
of blaming and crtiizing Tamilians as not being patriotic and narrow minded fanatics - when the truth is exactly the opposite.

I was brought up in an environment - which comes under ministry of defense. Patriotism and loyalty to our Country was infused in our blood and our thoughts and still its in my blood.

As a rational being, a person who can think, rationalize and reason, I am always baffeled when rest of the Indians point fingers at people belonging to my State.

The last paragraph was not targeted at you ... It was my righteous indignation against eveyone who does that -

Hope you got ths point now!
 
Why are we discussing Tamilians ?

I am from UP and I have several Tamilian friends and as far as I know I found them to be more Nationalistic Indians than even the more right-wing like North Indians. I am proud to have such great friends. Everyone considers themselves to be more Indian than others. Btw isn't it a good competition....it's at least for a better objective.
 
It is very disturbing that French Jouranalist have to point these things out to 1 + billion people. Even after some one pointed finger at the Link, instead of learning something out of it and acting in our own individual capacity, some Indians are busy discussing Tamilians and other things which are totally irrelavent in the bigger picture as Francois have so rightly pointed out.

Being Tamilian /Punjabi/Marathi is much more important than India itself.

Sometimes I feel we all should be Bombed to death, Should be terrorised beyond we can ever imagine, then probably we will understand How great India and Indianness was.
 
Relax PatienceGC......

Take it easy.......You could have said it in a much better way :)

We had a very informative thread with views from lots of knowlegable people around....Let it continue.

woreq123.......you are right........atleast I am not going to object to what you said....And for other's who feel we were discussing Tamilians/Gujju's and what not............they need to broaden up their views.....

Last but not the least.......Let the wait for GC continue :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top