N-400. Request for evidence after interview. 4 year + 1 day rule – my experience.
Hello Everyone!
I've just had my naturalization interview. While I passed the civics test, I ran into issues with the interview portion of it when it came to reviewing the trips I took within the last 5 years (my application was based on 5-year continuous residence). The trip that raised their concern was the one I took in 2012, I was away for more than 6 months but less than a year (April 2012 – Jan 2013). While being away I had mandatory job placement, temporary contract which I had to fulfill – this is the legal obligation for graduates that get free higher education in my country. So, I was technically employed, which I disclosed during the interview (the officer specifically asked about that).
After the interview I left without a definitive response.
A week later I got a letter via mail - requesting to provide proof of continuous residence and physical presence, they attached questionnaire related to that matter as well.
*********
Now about 4 year+1 day rule.
My concern was filing initial paperwork too early. I knew the safest way would be to do that 5 years minus 90 days from the time I returned from my last long trip (from Jan 2013) meaning Sept 2017.
I wish I had done that. But instead I started to do research on 4 year and 1 day rule and whether it is applicable for trips of more than 6 months but less than 1 year.
I read a lot of forums with different opinions on that matter and finally decided to call USCIS line to get a definitive answer, talked to 2 different agents (still have their names and employee #s written down) and was advised that this rule was indeed applicable in my scenario (after returning in Jan 2013, I was at 4 years and 5 months at the time of sending in N-400 form).
As I mentioned above, the interview did not go as planned.
Having looked at my cover letter, the immigration officer just stated that 4 year and 1 day rule only applied if the application was declined due to the beak in residence, and sometimes the policies could be confusing (I guess referring to the fact that 2 different USCIS agents advised me otherwise); and that they would need more time to look into my trips.
After I received the notice requesting further evidence a week later, I just couldn’t let go and called USCIS again asking for clarification, was transferred to an escalated line, spoke to an immigration officer who told me that a year ago I might have talked to tier 1 agent who might not be aware of all the procedures; and that I should have filed N400 at 4 years minus 90 days mark. When I asked her about the 4 year and 1 day rule in general, she had no idea what I was referring to at all (imagine that!!!) and bottom line they were not assuming any responsibility for any misinformation, if I get denied I can file an appeal.
Hope this experience helps someone else not to make the same mistake and not to rely blindly on information you get from USCIS customer service.
**********
Now back to the best way to get out of this (if it is even possible).
This is where I need help. I am trying to make sense of the dates that are mentioned as a starting point of their calculations for continuous residence.
1st Question.
I have mailed form N-400 June 30th 2017.
The cover letter I got from USCIS is requesting proof or residence and list of all trips during statutory period - starting from August 7th 2012 to PRESENT.
Why August 7th 2012? It is not exactly 5 years from the date of filing N400 Form. Any ideas?
Along with the cover letter, I got separate questionnaire where they request to list all absences from August 4th 2010 (and whether I was employed outside of the U.S. at that time) - verbatim "Please list any absence(s) from the U.S. for continuous periods of between six(6) months and one(1) year from which you returned during your naturalization statutory - the period from August 4, 2010 to the present time".
Why 2010? The statutory period is 5 years, not 8 years! To me it seems like a typo, and it should match the cover letter to say August 7, 2012 to PRESENT.
And if it is a typo, how can I point it out nicely? I don't really want to dig that deep, into 2010.
2nd Question.
What is the best strategy moving forward?
a/ I should be consistent and still try to “push” 4 year and 1 day exception (on August 7 2012 I was in the middle of my last long trip) or it doesn't make any sense at all in the light of the latest news that most probably I was misinformed (even though I have employee # of USCIS agent who I talked to a year ago)?
or
b/ I should forget about 4 year and 1 day exception.
or
c/ Again I should forget about 4 year and 1 day exception.
3rd Question.
My green card expires mid-July 2017.
I didn’t have to officially renew it (since it did not expire for over a year from the application date) and already scheduled Infopass appointment to get temporary stamp into my passport.
If I get denied for the reason of filing too early (did not accumulate 5-year continuous residency preceding the application date), there is no waiting time before I can re-apply (since it is taking so long for the process, at this moment I already have 5 continuous years accumulated), is it correct?
And would I need to apply for official renewal of the Green Card as well (temporary stamp wouldn’t do any good) - USCIS agent told me it was recommended, and I could do both paperworks simultaneously. Does anyone have any information on that?
I hope for your advice and I can clarify any “grey” areas if you need any other info. Thank you in advance.
Hello Everyone!
I've just had my naturalization interview. While I passed the civics test, I ran into issues with the interview portion of it when it came to reviewing the trips I took within the last 5 years (my application was based on 5-year continuous residence). The trip that raised their concern was the one I took in 2012, I was away for more than 6 months but less than a year (April 2012 – Jan 2013). While being away I had mandatory job placement, temporary contract which I had to fulfill – this is the legal obligation for graduates that get free higher education in my country. So, I was technically employed, which I disclosed during the interview (the officer specifically asked about that).
After the interview I left without a definitive response.
A week later I got a letter via mail - requesting to provide proof of continuous residence and physical presence, they attached questionnaire related to that matter as well.
*********
Now about 4 year+1 day rule.
My concern was filing initial paperwork too early. I knew the safest way would be to do that 5 years minus 90 days from the time I returned from my last long trip (from Jan 2013) meaning Sept 2017.
I wish I had done that. But instead I started to do research on 4 year and 1 day rule and whether it is applicable for trips of more than 6 months but less than 1 year.
I read a lot of forums with different opinions on that matter and finally decided to call USCIS line to get a definitive answer, talked to 2 different agents (still have their names and employee #s written down) and was advised that this rule was indeed applicable in my scenario (after returning in Jan 2013, I was at 4 years and 5 months at the time of sending in N-400 form).
As I mentioned above, the interview did not go as planned.
Having looked at my cover letter, the immigration officer just stated that 4 year and 1 day rule only applied if the application was declined due to the beak in residence, and sometimes the policies could be confusing (I guess referring to the fact that 2 different USCIS agents advised me otherwise); and that they would need more time to look into my trips.
After I received the notice requesting further evidence a week later, I just couldn’t let go and called USCIS again asking for clarification, was transferred to an escalated line, spoke to an immigration officer who told me that a year ago I might have talked to tier 1 agent who might not be aware of all the procedures; and that I should have filed N400 at 4 years minus 90 days mark. When I asked her about the 4 year and 1 day rule in general, she had no idea what I was referring to at all (imagine that!!!) and bottom line they were not assuming any responsibility for any misinformation, if I get denied I can file an appeal.
Hope this experience helps someone else not to make the same mistake and not to rely blindly on information you get from USCIS customer service.
**********
Now back to the best way to get out of this (if it is even possible).
This is where I need help. I am trying to make sense of the dates that are mentioned as a starting point of their calculations for continuous residence.
1st Question.
I have mailed form N-400 June 30th 2017.
The cover letter I got from USCIS is requesting proof or residence and list of all trips during statutory period - starting from August 7th 2012 to PRESENT.
Why August 7th 2012? It is not exactly 5 years from the date of filing N400 Form. Any ideas?
Along with the cover letter, I got separate questionnaire where they request to list all absences from August 4th 2010 (and whether I was employed outside of the U.S. at that time) - verbatim "Please list any absence(s) from the U.S. for continuous periods of between six(6) months and one(1) year from which you returned during your naturalization statutory - the period from August 4, 2010 to the present time".
Why 2010? The statutory period is 5 years, not 8 years! To me it seems like a typo, and it should match the cover letter to say August 7, 2012 to PRESENT.
And if it is a typo, how can I point it out nicely? I don't really want to dig that deep, into 2010.
2nd Question.
What is the best strategy moving forward?
a/ I should be consistent and still try to “push” 4 year and 1 day exception (on August 7 2012 I was in the middle of my last long trip) or it doesn't make any sense at all in the light of the latest news that most probably I was misinformed (even though I have employee # of USCIS agent who I talked to a year ago)?
or
b/ I should forget about 4 year and 1 day exception.
- I am pointing out that the questionnaire has a typo and the statutory period begins August 7 2012 (to match the cover letter they sent me) instead of August 4 2010.
- Then I am filling out the questionnaire indicating my last long trip there (April 2012 – Jan 2013), but pointing out that the portion of it that counts towards statutory period is less than 6 months (August 7 2012 – Jan 30 2013).
- As far as my employment during that trip, I am letting them know that my job obligation was over by the end of June 2012 (my contract was over), so technically I wasn’t employed between August 7 2012 – Jan 30 2013 - dates, that count toward statutory period.
- I am trying to proof that my residence wasn’t broken - by providing evidence of ties I had in US such as the same employer I was working for, open bank accounts, tax returns I filed every year. My husband (at that time my boyfriend) who is a US citizen (was born in U.S.) was in the US during that time, and visited me in 2010 and 2011 - can that be presented as a tie as well (I could attach copies of his passport with visas and stamps indicating crossing the border when he visited me)?
or
c/ Again I should forget about 4 year and 1 day exception.
- I am pointing out that the questionnaire has a typo and the statutory period begins August 7 2012 (to match the cover letter they sent me) instead of August 4 2010.
- I am leaving the questionnaire blank (put N/A under 6+ months trips).
- I am explaining in my cover letter that dates of my trip that counted toward statutory period (from August 7 2012 to Jan 30 2013) were less than 6 months, even though the trip itself was longer, but the rest of it was outside of statutory period.
- Again provide evidence of ties I had in US (the last part of b/ strategy).
3rd Question.
My green card expires mid-July 2017.
I didn’t have to officially renew it (since it did not expire for over a year from the application date) and already scheduled Infopass appointment to get temporary stamp into my passport.
If I get denied for the reason of filing too early (did not accumulate 5-year continuous residency preceding the application date), there is no waiting time before I can re-apply (since it is taking so long for the process, at this moment I already have 5 continuous years accumulated), is it correct?
And would I need to apply for official renewal of the Green Card as well (temporary stamp wouldn’t do any good) - USCIS agent told me it was recommended, and I could do both paperworks simultaneously. Does anyone have any information on that?
I hope for your advice and I can clarify any “grey” areas if you need any other info. Thank you in advance.