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TN visa to Green Card process
- Thread starter Desi-Rom
- Start date
curiousGeorge
Registered Users (C)
I've been through the process successfully. Here is everything you want to know:
1) File PERM or Labor certification. Keep renewing your TN as you normally would. You can continue to travel and work using your TN.
2) After the PERM/LC gets approved, file your I-140. Do not file your I-485 concurrently. Renew your TN via mail if necessary (not at the POE/PFI) . You can continue to travel and work using your TN.
3) After your I-140 is approved, verify that you have at least 6 months left on your TN. If so, proceed to step 4. If not, apply for a new TN now.
4) Once your I-140 is approved and you have a TN that is good for at least 6 months apply for your I-485. Apply for your EAD, and your Advance Parole at the same time.
5) Do not leave the United States between step 4 and step 7. You can continue work using your TN, but you cannot travel using your TN. Never apply for a new TN ever again. If you leave between steps 4 and 7, your I-485 will be considered abanonded, and you won't be eligible for a new TN. Bascially if you leave, you can't come back, unless you get some other kind of visa, (H1, L1, etc) and you'll have to refile your I-485. Bad..bad..bad..
6) If your EAD does not arrive within 120 days after the application was filed, schedule an appointment at the local office using InfoPass and apply for an interim EAD. (this is why you needed to have at least 6 months left on your TN as mentioned in step 3.) I say 6 months, because the 120 days starts ticking after USCIS "recieves" your EAD application. If it takes them a while to get it into thier system that may be a delay. It may take a few weeks for your InfoPass appointment, even after you schdule it, depending on availability, plus, once you go get the Interim EAD, you may not be issued it on the spot. There may be an aditional delay of a week or so before you actually get it. So although you can "apply" for an I-EAD in 120 days, its better to leave a buffer of a few months on your TN in step 3.
7) Once your Advance Parole is approved, you can travel abroad. If you travel using your Advance Parole, upon re-entry to the US, you will be in I-485 pending status, not in TN status. Your TN status will be voided, and you'll have to provide your EAD to your employer to update the I-9.
8) Once your EAD is approved, you can find a second job if you so wish. If your I-485 has been pending for more than 6 months, then you can invoke AC-21, and leave your sponsoring company for another job that matches the description in your LC. Upon using your EAD, your TN is voided. All your employers would need a new I-9 with your EAD on it, and you would be in I-485 pending status, not in TN status. Your TN status will be voided.
9) If you don't travel in step 7, and you don't get a second job, or switch jobs in step 8, then you'll be in TN status until your TN expires at which point you'll be in I-485 pending status.
10) Keep renewing your EAD and AP every year at least 3-4 months before they expire so that you can take advantage of step 6 if necessary. Make sure they don't expire since although you'd still be in a legal status of I-485 pending, you would not be able to work or travel until the new EAD/AP arrives in the mail.
11) If your I-485 gets denied you would be out of status. At this point your EAD and AP are also invalid. You would need to apply for a motion to reopen as soon as possible. Once your MTR is accepted, you can work using your EAD again. (This situation is very very rare, so don’t worry about this one, and this is not at all specific to TN cases, since the same situation happen if your H1b had expired),
12) Eventually your I-485 will get approved, either directly from the service center, or you might get an interview like me. Your status will change from I-485 pending to permanent resident status.
1) File PERM or Labor certification. Keep renewing your TN as you normally would. You can continue to travel and work using your TN.
2) After the PERM/LC gets approved, file your I-140. Do not file your I-485 concurrently. Renew your TN via mail if necessary (not at the POE/PFI) . You can continue to travel and work using your TN.
3) After your I-140 is approved, verify that you have at least 6 months left on your TN. If so, proceed to step 4. If not, apply for a new TN now.
4) Once your I-140 is approved and you have a TN that is good for at least 6 months apply for your I-485. Apply for your EAD, and your Advance Parole at the same time.
5) Do not leave the United States between step 4 and step 7. You can continue work using your TN, but you cannot travel using your TN. Never apply for a new TN ever again. If you leave between steps 4 and 7, your I-485 will be considered abanonded, and you won't be eligible for a new TN. Bascially if you leave, you can't come back, unless you get some other kind of visa, (H1, L1, etc) and you'll have to refile your I-485. Bad..bad..bad..
6) If your EAD does not arrive within 120 days after the application was filed, schedule an appointment at the local office using InfoPass and apply for an interim EAD. (this is why you needed to have at least 6 months left on your TN as mentioned in step 3.) I say 6 months, because the 120 days starts ticking after USCIS "recieves" your EAD application. If it takes them a while to get it into thier system that may be a delay. It may take a few weeks for your InfoPass appointment, even after you schdule it, depending on availability, plus, once you go get the Interim EAD, you may not be issued it on the spot. There may be an aditional delay of a week or so before you actually get it. So although you can "apply" for an I-EAD in 120 days, its better to leave a buffer of a few months on your TN in step 3.
7) Once your Advance Parole is approved, you can travel abroad. If you travel using your Advance Parole, upon re-entry to the US, you will be in I-485 pending status, not in TN status. Your TN status will be voided, and you'll have to provide your EAD to your employer to update the I-9.
8) Once your EAD is approved, you can find a second job if you so wish. If your I-485 has been pending for more than 6 months, then you can invoke AC-21, and leave your sponsoring company for another job that matches the description in your LC. Upon using your EAD, your TN is voided. All your employers would need a new I-9 with your EAD on it, and you would be in I-485 pending status, not in TN status. Your TN status will be voided.
9) If you don't travel in step 7, and you don't get a second job, or switch jobs in step 8, then you'll be in TN status until your TN expires at which point you'll be in I-485 pending status.
10) Keep renewing your EAD and AP every year at least 3-4 months before they expire so that you can take advantage of step 6 if necessary. Make sure they don't expire since although you'd still be in a legal status of I-485 pending, you would not be able to work or travel until the new EAD/AP arrives in the mail.
11) If your I-485 gets denied you would be out of status. At this point your EAD and AP are also invalid. You would need to apply for a motion to reopen as soon as possible. Once your MTR is accepted, you can work using your EAD again. (This situation is very very rare, so don’t worry about this one, and this is not at all specific to TN cases, since the same situation happen if your H1b had expired),
12) Eventually your I-485 will get approved, either directly from the service center, or you might get an interview like me. Your status will change from I-485 pending to permanent resident status.
Last edited by a moderator:
TheRealCanadian
Volunteer Moderator
curiousGeorge said:2) After the PERM/LC gets approved, file your I-140. Do not file your I-485 concurrently. Renew your TN via mail if necessary (not at the POE/PFI). You can continue to travel and work using your TN.
If there are 120 days or more remaining on the TN and the priority date is current, why on earth would you NOT file the I-485 at the same time?
curiousGeorge
Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:If there are 120 days or more remaining on the TN and the priority date is current, why on earth would you NOT file the I-485 at the same time?
An I-140 is filed by your company, not YOU so simply filing an I-140 does not show clear immigrant intent, since it’s the company filing in your name. They "could" do it without your consent, so its not your fault that "they" want you to immigrate. By filing an I-485 you are clearly expressing YOUR choice to immigrate, not anyone else's, YOU are the one that consciously made the decision to immigrate by filing an I-485, and that is clear immigrant intent.
By filing an I-485, you show clear immigrant intent. For this reason, once you've applied for an I-485 you are no longer eligible for a new TN, since to qualify for a new TN, you cannot have dual intent.
If you file the I-485 and the I-140 concurrently, and the I-140 is DENIED for any reason, then once your TN has expired, you are out of status, and you are no longer eligible for a new TN because you've shown immigrant intent. You can call it game over, and pack up and go back to Canada.
On the other hand, if all you filed is your I-140, and it gets denied, you can still apply for a new TN, and refile the I-140. Life goes on, and you learn from the mistakes you made on the I-140, and you try again.
And since I-140's get denied a lot more often than I-485's do, the risk of denial is much higher at that stage.
Trust me, following these extra steps will keep you on the safe side of the boat.
Last edited by a moderator:
TheRealCanadian
Volunteer Moderator
JoeF said:Nope. The TN would be denied, because the person has shown immigration intent with the I-140. That's established practice covered by law.
Trust him, and get into trouble... The I-140 shows immigration inten. Period. End of story.
No, not end of story. The Service Centers and POEs have been instructed that a pending or approved I-140 alone should not lead to the denial of a TN renewal, or the issuance of a new TN. This is in the form of a memorandum, and it takes just a single POE inspector to deny re-entry on the TN when the I-140 is pending to totally screw things up.
That's why I'm puzzled why all this worry about the I-140. If you're making the prevailing wage or the company has 100 or more employees, they are automatically assumed able to pay which eliminates 95% of the I-140 problems. Most I-140s are approved without issue, and I'd concentrate on getting the I-140 right rather than unnecessarily delaying the I-485 based on the odd change the I-140 would get denied.
And as we can see today, delaying the I-485 filing can have serious consequences for even Canadian-born individuals. I would hate to delay the I-485 filing because we're irrationally afraid of a denial, only to have the priority dates retrogress and have the I-485 delayed by a year or more and be forced to re-enter the US multiple times on a TN with an approved I-140. That could be a real problem.
TheRealCanadian
Volunteer Moderator
JoeF said:Ok, didn't know about that. Is that something new?
Relatively. I don't keep up 100% with TN stuff like I used to.
I'm not sure how binding a memorandum is.
Well, I haven't heard of a lot of trouble at TN renewal time or at the border, but like I mentioned it just takes one POE inspector with an attitude to completely mess you up. Keep in mind that TN is an unusual non-immigrant status in that while it doesn't have the explicit dual-intent protections of H and L, it also doesn't have the foreign residency requirements of B, F or J.
I suspect that over time the "free trade" working non-immigrant statuses such as E-3 and TN are going to evolve to the same level of dual intent protection as H and L, but probably not soon enough to benefit any current beneficiaries.
Yeah, this fear of denial in fact strikes me as irrational as well. That's what the lawyer is for, to make sure the case is sound.
There was a time about 12-18 months ago when USCIS was denying cases right and left instead of RFEs, but that abuse was corrected and the latest Yates memorandum established some pretty clear safe harbours for I-140s. If the alien beneficiary clearly meets the educational requirements and they fall under the safe harbors for ability to pay (already making LC wage or >100 employees) then the I-140 approval is a slam dunk.
curiousGeorge
Registered Users (C)
1) No hassle with yearly visa quotas.arizonian said:Why not just get a H1
2) Much cheaper.
3) Much quicker to obtain.
4) Some categories of TN do not require a bachelors degree.
5) Easier to convince an employer to hire you because the process is a lot less involved.
6) Renewable every year indefinitely, so this gives you more time to find a green card sponsor.
I had to use advantage #3, since I didn't qualify for an H1b when I started the GC process.
curiousGeorge
Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:If the alien beneficiary clearly meets the educational requirements and they fall under the safe harbors for ability to pay (already making LC wage or >100 employees) then the I-140 approval is a slam dunk.
Ok, so maybe the risk of denial is a lot less if you have a lawyer who knows his left hand from his right, and th USCIS officer handling your case knows all the rules. Let's say that's a moot point since the chances are possible, but not probable. Point taken.
But, if the I-140 gets an RFE, and then I-485 can be put on "hold" thus causing a delay in getting the EAD, and AP. If the TN expires during this time, you would not be able to work. This almost happened to Chongyip (another TN status member on this board) but his EAD got approved just a week before his TN expired. The RFE took forever to get processed. Luck.... The risk is too high to take the chance.
Next, you could get your I-140 mistakenly transferred to a local office like Saras76 (another H1B member on this board) . If you were on a TN in this scenario, you would be caught in the loop of trying to get your I-140 back to the service center, all the while your EAD may not get approved before your TN expires because nobody at USCIS wants to admit to having your file. Again, bad luck due to USCIS error. The risk is too high to take the chance.
The safe route in a TN scenario is NOT to file concurrently. I still highly recommend this to all TN holders trying to adjust status. Otherwise you not be able to work for a time period, or the worst case is (as originally stated in less frequent cases these days) you might be out of status, without the option to renew your TN.
I've already stated the advantages of a TN over H1b. The disadvantage of applying for a GC from a TN is that you need to take a "slightly" longer route to avoid errors unbeknownst to you. The other disadvantage is that you cannot travel between the time that you file for your I-485, and the time that you get your Advance Parole. The process is not at all illegal as many lawyer will try to convince you, it’s just a little different than the H1b to GC route, and many lawyer don't want the extra work, for the same amount of pay, so they try to get you to convert to an H1b so they get more money, for less work. Many people have taken this route successfully, so if you don't qualify for an H1b, as I did, then its still possible to get a GC.
TheRealCanadian
Volunteer Moderator
George, the problem I have with your scenario is that it's predicated on USCIS not following their own rules and procedures. If you believe that USCIS will do this, then it's equally likely that since the TN does not have explicit dual intent provisions, they'd (erroneously) deny a TN renewal or re-entry after the I-140 was submitted. What would you do then?
curiousGeorge
Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:they'd (erroneously) deny a TN renewal or re-entry after the I-140 was submitted. What would you do then?
Of all the lawyers, and applicants that I've ever conversed with, this has never happened. Of course this does not include the entire gene pool of TN to GC adjusters (although it’s a pretty good sampling), so I can't base my answer solely on that predication.
But, even if it did ever happen, it could be easily corrected by filing a second TN. The response time on a TN application is relatively much quicker than the response time on a new H1b / I-140 / I-485, and similarly to an H1b, once the TN application is in the mail, it extends the previous TN by 240 days until that TN application is adjudicated.
The other scenarios I mentioned are much more probable as demonstrated by examples from this forum and much harder (i.e. longer timeframe) to correct.
TheRealCanadian
Volunteer Moderator
curiousGeorge said:But, even if it did ever happen, it could be easily corrected by filing a second TN. The response time on a TN application is relatively much quicker than the response time on a new H1b / I-140 / I-485, and similarly to an H1b, once the TN application is in the mail, it extends the previous TN by 240 days until that TN application is adjudicated.
That's assuming that the original TN hadn't expired before the extension was denied. If the original I-94 is expired, then you're out of status and illegally present after the denial and the 2nd extension won't do anything for you. It also doesn't address the problem of entry being denied at a POE with a pending or approved I-140, or priority date retrogression which precludes an I-485 filing and dramatically increases the time before AC21 benefits become available.
I think that both approaches have their merits. If there's a clear-cut I-140, I'd suggest the I-485 be filed at the same time. If the I-140 is iffy, then your approach makes perfect sense.
curiousGeorge
Registered Users (C)
TheRealCanadian said:I think that both approaches have their merits. If there's a clear-cut I-140, I'd suggest the I-485 be filed at the same time. If the I-140 is iffy, then your approach makes perfect sense.
I agree with that. Mine was iffy, so it was worth the extra step.
Personally I just avoided travel all together from the point the I-140 was sent to the point I got my plastic green card. Guess I'm just overly paranoid after reading so many horror stories on this forum.