OCI-PIO other questions

[ashu1174]

1) Is OCI (Overseas Citizen of India) granted for minor children who is a citizen of America by Birth and whose parents are Indians?

2) To my understanding, PIO is granted for 15 years validity. Can it be renewed or extended after 15 years for continuing to stay in India? What is required to get the extension granted?

3) Can a minor child renounce American citizenship after staying in India for 5 years?

4) Since we are planning to move back to India with in a year or two, we have a question on educational expenses for OCI (or PIO) card holder. Are children with OCI (or PIO) status charged more than the regular fees in schools and colleges in India?

 

[techie8]

Please see my responses inline.

1) Is OCI (Overseas Citizen of India) granted for minor children who is a citizen of America by Birth and whose parents are Indians?

If both the parents are Indian citizens, then the minor child is NOT eligible for OCI. This was not the case till recently. So some people have received their OCI cards for minor children. However, current cases and future cases are being rejected for US born minor children where both parents are Indian citizens. You can also see the response to question no 6 at the link below.

http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/faqs.pdf

2) To my understanding, PIO is granted for 15 years validity. Can it be renewed or extended after 15 years for continuing to stay in India? What is required to get the extension granted?

Yes. You can renew the PIO card after 15 years. However, once the minor child reaches the age of 18, he/she can apply for an OCI card in his/her own capacity. The same procedure is involved in renewing the card as the one for obtaining it in the first place. The only difference is that you will have to give your old PIO card number in your renewal application.

3) Can a minor child renounce American citizenship after staying in India for 5 years?

Yes. It is possible to apply for Indian citizenship after staying in India for 5 years. However, I think it is better to maintain the US citizenship as it will give the kid more study and work opportunities later on in life without any visa related problems etc.

4) Since we are planning to move back to India with in a year or two, we have a question on educational expenses for OCI (or PIO) card holder. Are children with OCI (or PIO) status charged more than the regular fees in schools and colleges in India?

If you have an OCI card, then you are treated on par with any other Indian citizen without any additional fees. On the other hand, if you are on a PIO card, then some (not all) educational institutions might charge you more. However, on the positive side, you also have reservation in premier institutes such as IITs and IISc for NRI quota, which you can use to get into such institutes if required. On the other hand, institutes such as BITS Pilani do not really differentiate based on your NRI status as far as fees are concerned.

Hope this helps ...

 

[tamtom]

3) Can a minor child renounce American citizenship after staying in India for 5 years?

This depends on the US, not on India.

The child would have to pass an interview with a US consular official to prove that the child fully understands the meaning and consequences of renouncing American citizenship.

I don't think there's a fixed age limit, but obviously the younger the child is, the harder it will be to pass the interview. For example, I doubt a five- or six-year-old child could pass such an interview. Maybe a well-educated 15-year-old child could.

Here is a link to the US State Department's advice on renunciation of US citizenship. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

The key section is called "Renunciation for minor children" and I quote here in full.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship. United States common law establishes an arbitrary limit of age fourteen under which a child’s understanding must be established by substantial evidence.

Hope this helps,

Tamtom

 

[ashu1174]

Please see my responses inline.

Thanks for the quick and candid replies.

If both the parents are Indian citizens, then the minor child is NOT eligible for OCI. This was not the case till recently. So some people have received their OCI cards for minor children. However, current cases and future cases are being rejected for US born minor children where both parents are Indian citizens. You can also see the response to question no 6 at the link below.

http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/faqs.pdf

OK. That clarifies. I was always under the impression that we can get OCI and live without any hassles in India later.


Yes. You can renew the PIO card after 15 years. However, once the minor child reaches the age of 18, he/she can apply for an OCI card in his/her own capacity. The same procedure is involved in renewing the card as the one for obtaining it in the first place. The only difference is that you will have to give your old PIO card number in your renewal application.


I think that should be fine. So, with this, it looks like only difference is the reporting to local authorities and police for stay beyond 6 months with PIO.


Yes. It is possible to apply for Indian citizenship after staying in India for 5 years. However, I think it is better to maintain the US citizenship as it will give the kid more study and work opportunities later on in life without any visa related problems etc.

OK.



If you have an OCI card, then you are treated on par with any other Indian citizen without any additional fees. On the other hand, if you are on a PIO card, then some (not all) educational institutions might charge you more. However, on the positive side, you also have reservation in premier institutes such as IITs and IISc for NRI quota, which you can use to get into such institutes if required. On the other hand, institutes such as BITS Pilani do not really differentiate based on your NRI status as far as fees are concerned.

Hope this helps ...

Yes, your replies are really helpful.

 

[ashu1174]

This depends on the US, not on India.

The child would have to pass an interview with a US consular official to prove that the child fully understands the meaning and consequences of renouncing American citizenship.

I don't think there's a fixed age limit, but obviously the younger the child is, the harder it will be to pass the interview. For example, I doubt a five- or six-year-old child could pass such an interview. Maybe a well-educated 15-year-old child could.

Here is a link to the US State Department's advice on renunciation of US citizenship. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

The key section is called "Renunciation for minor children" and I quote here in full.



Hope this helps,

Tamtom

Tamtom,

Thanks for the link. It clarified some of the doubts. So, it's more or less saying that it is not possible to renunce until the age of 18. So, till 18 the child has to stick to US citizenship and can decide after that.

 

[tamtom]

4) Since we are planning to move back to India with in a year or two, we have a question on educational expenses for OCI (or PIO) card holder. Are children with OCI (or PIO) status charged more than the regular fees in schools and colleges in India?

ashu1174,

I don't think very much is known yet. This kind of situation (Indians coming home with foreign citizen children) has only recently become widespread.

Note that the PIO card gives rights equivalent to "NRI" for educational purposes, which means not necessarily equivalent to "resident Indian".

Note also that a typical entrance fee to a public museum is 5 Rs (Indian), 100 Rs (foreigner). Air India also charges higher airfares for foreigners and NRIs than resident Indians. So, it is totally normal to charge different fees based on nationality and residence, and the practice is already established in other Indian institutions. I think it would be prudent to assume that at some time in the next 18 years, the schools may realize this and raise their fees for students who are foreign citizens or NRIs.

Hope this helps,

Tamtom

 

[hipka]

4) Since we are planning to move back to India with in a year or two, we have a question on educational expenses for OCI (or PIO) card holder. Are children with OCI (or PIO) status charged more than the regular fees in schools and colleges in India?

OCI or PIO holders are treated on par with NRI's for education fees, so clearly expect to pay more to attend school/college. Throughout the OCI process, govt. of India always maintained that OCI's would be on par with NRI's. However some emotional NRI's circulated rumors that OCI's would be treated on par with indian citizens and the indian govts. nickname of dual citizenship confused everyone.

 

[tamtom]

ashu1174,

In short, yes the schools can charge your child a higher fee if you get it a US passport. If you care most about making the child equal with other resident Indian citizens, better pack your bags and have the baby in India

If that is not possible (e.g. too late a stage in pregnancy to travel), then you can still get the child an Indian passport even if it's born in the US, if at least one of the parents is an Indian citizen (which both are, in your case).

If you decide to do that, you can get in touch with me by clicking on my profile to send me a private message or email. Several of us are forming a group of parents concerned about how such children can keep Indian citizenship while traveling internationally.

--Tamtom