I am going up with a friend across the border from Washington to BC in order to get a new TN from a new employer. We are spending one night in Canada and then crossing back so I can apply for my new TN at the border. My friend is my ride there and ride back, I don't have a car of my own. Friend is an American I'm a Canadian. Friend needs to get back when we cross back since she has work the following week. I will be applying for my new TN for my own new job when we make this return trip. But what happens if I'm denied? I really have nowhere to go if I am denied. They'll send me back, but where to? I'm not from BC I'm from Ontario and my only home in Canada is in Ontario. There is literally nowhere for me to go if I'm denied my TN, and my friend will have to cross back into the US regardless of if I'm approved or not for my visa. What happens to me? I'll be stranded at the border, with no car and no place to stay? Would they really let that happen? Would they just not care? What would I do and where would go in this situation?
If I get denied my TN will I be stranded at the border? Have no way to get anywhere if this happens
- Thread starter tnapp334
- Start date
You should be planning in case of this. Don't ever 100% expect to be approved at the border. In fact, you should always assume the worst so that you have a backup plan. That way, if you get your TN, great. Otherwise, you'll have a plan. Denial is simply not letting you into the country on a TN. What happens afterwards should be anticipated by you.
I'm not sure if it's so easy just to enter the US as a visitor immediately after as I would imagine that raises some flags.
I'm not sure if it's so easy just to enter the US as a visitor immediately after as I would imagine that raises some flags.
nelsona
Registered Users (C)
is your old TN employment still ongoing? If so, you would just enter on that TN (if you could not fix the problem in an hour or two). We stress here that one should never give up their current TN job until they have secured their new one. What is your current status in US?
But, as you fear, if you have been in the US for some time under TN, and have no base in Canada anymore, CBP may be reluctant to let you in a visitor, since you really don't qualify. Your friend would need to drive you closer to Vancouver airport so that you can apply for TN at YVR and fly back to US.
You may want to try to get the TN as soon as you cross into Canada rather than waiting overnight to find out if you are denied or not. That would give you more time.
But, as you fear, if you have been in the US for some time under TN, and have no base in Canada anymore, CBP may be reluctant to let you in a visitor, since you really don't qualify. Your friend would need to drive you closer to Vancouver airport so that you can apply for TN at YVR and fly back to US.
You may want to try to get the TN as soon as you cross into Canada rather than waiting overnight to find out if you are denied or not. That would give you more time.
I am in B-2 pending status. I lost my old TN job at the end of January, waited until the grace period expired at end of March, then filed i-539 and am now in pending B-2 status (have sent in RFE for this including Greyhound ticket to Vancouver and proof of residence at the Ontario location). So no my old TN I don't think is valid anymore, although it's still in my passport and my current i94 says the date of that old TN.
The ticket was "proof of intent to return" to country of origin. I also provided "proof of residence" in Canada by giving a couple documents that state my name and the address in Ontario. No I don't have any other residence in Canada besides my parents' house, I was living with my parents before coming to the US, I only became financially independent with my own place while in the US. Grad program to full-time job. The only residence I have in Canada is my parents' house where I was living because I was not financially independent.
Why do you say my parents' house is not "really" a residence in Ontario? I came to Seattle from my parents' house, that was where my address was/is and that is the last place I ever lived in Canada. I still get Canadian mail addressed to me at this address, this is the address my Canadian bank has on file for me, etc.
Why do you say my parents' house is not "really" a residence in Ontario? I came to Seattle from my parents' house, that was where my address was/is and that is the last place I ever lived in Canada. I still get Canadian mail addressed to me at this address, this is the address my Canadian bank has on file for me, etc.
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nelsona
Registered Users (C)
It isn't your residence now. You live in Seattle, as you just said. Since you live and work in WA, you MUST have a WA DL for a while now, and the address listed on that is your home. You should be advising those using your Cdn address to stop.
The wrap-up B2 that you applied for (you did mention purpose was to wrap-up US affairs?) doesn't really require foreign address, what if you had been TN for 15 years when laid-off? Keep that in mind for next time. You do NOT live in Canada anymore and should not be volunteering such to any official agency until you actually move back.
Proof of bus ticket was also unusual (since you could cash it at any time and proves nothing).
Like I said, that was a curious RFE for wrap-up B2.
The wrap-up B2 that you applied for (you did mention purpose was to wrap-up US affairs?) doesn't really require foreign address, what if you had been TN for 15 years when laid-off? Keep that in mind for next time. You do NOT live in Canada anymore and should not be volunteering such to any official agency until you actually move back.
Proof of bus ticket was also unusual (since you could cash it at any time and proves nothing).
Like I said, that was a curious RFE for wrap-up B2.
My RFE definitely said provide proof of foreign residence that I have no intention of abandoning. I provided my parents' house in this, a couple documents indicating I still get mail addressed to me at this address. And it also asked for proof (such as airline tickets) of intent to return to the country of origin. Obviously I'm not going to buy expensive plane tickets, so I opted for a greyhound ticket seattle to vancouver, and provided that as well. This is what the RFE asked me for, is that unusual? I just planned to explain this to CBP at the border and say I did intend to return here as per the RFE but now since I've been offered employment (3-month position initially) that that timeline is now just being shifted by a few weeks and I'm now at the border to get permission to work at a 3-month position. Is this really such a huge problem that I won't be let in? I'm going to provide them the contents of the RFE as well.
RFE included this:
Travel Arrangements for Departure from the U.S. Provide documentation such as airline tickets that establishes you have made arrangements to depart the U.S. upon completion of your temporary stay in the United States.
Foreign Residency: Regulations require that a visitor for B-2 pleasure must establish that he or she has a residence abroad which he or she has no intention of abandoning. Therefore, provide evidence of your residence in a foreign country and your reasons to return to that residence by submitting the following and any other evidence you feel will support your claim:
Proof of Residence Abroad: Submit document(s) with translation(s) for proof of residence in the country to which you intend to return after completing the requested change of status and/or temporary extension of stay.
I have submitted forms for proof of foreign residence at my parents' house as per this RFE, why can't I also use this when I apply for a new TN at the border?
RFE included this:
Travel Arrangements for Departure from the U.S. Provide documentation such as airline tickets that establishes you have made arrangements to depart the U.S. upon completion of your temporary stay in the United States.
Foreign Residency: Regulations require that a visitor for B-2 pleasure must establish that he or she has a residence abroad which he or she has no intention of abandoning. Therefore, provide evidence of your residence in a foreign country and your reasons to return to that residence by submitting the following and any other evidence you feel will support your claim:
Proof of Residence Abroad: Submit document(s) with translation(s) for proof of residence in the country to which you intend to return after completing the requested change of status and/or temporary extension of stay.
I have submitted forms for proof of foreign residence at my parents' house as per this RFE, why can't I also use this when I apply for a new TN at the border?
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nelsona
Registered Users (C)
The reason to not let you in would be if you fail your TN petition, after obviously living in US for an extended period of time.
As I said, this RFE was indeed unusual, and appears not to have considered that you live in US (which you obviously do since you have been on TN for a period of time) and that you were requesting a wrap-up B2 (Again, did you specify this in your application? If you did, the all this confusion by USCIS is not your fault). A wrap-up B2 requested for a former TNer would NEVER request these items, since none of these are required for TN. Your B2 request seems more like it was a request to extend one's vacation.
The border agents will be a little more savvy than the USCIS office was, when they ask for your DL etc, and see that you were on TN, thus knowing showing that you must live in the US -- no one actually living in Canada would be worried about being "stranded" at the border.
In future, do NOT fake an address with any Gov't agency. There is no benefit to doing so, and can get you in trouble tax-wise, duty-wise, and even immigration-wise.
The RFE at this point is meaningless once you leave US soil, I would only be referring to the B2 application as proof that you maintained status; forget the RFE, the bus ticket, and parents home -- you will have left US, so all that becomes moot.
I thought we went through all this in your other thread?
As I said, this RFE was indeed unusual, and appears not to have considered that you live in US (which you obviously do since you have been on TN for a period of time) and that you were requesting a wrap-up B2 (Again, did you specify this in your application? If you did, the all this confusion by USCIS is not your fault). A wrap-up B2 requested for a former TNer would NEVER request these items, since none of these are required for TN. Your B2 request seems more like it was a request to extend one's vacation.
The border agents will be a little more savvy than the USCIS office was, when they ask for your DL etc, and see that you were on TN, thus knowing showing that you must live in the US -- no one actually living in Canada would be worried about being "stranded" at the border.
In future, do NOT fake an address with any Gov't agency. There is no benefit to doing so, and can get you in trouble tax-wise, duty-wise, and even immigration-wise.
The RFE at this point is meaningless once you leave US soil, I would only be referring to the B2 application as proof that you maintained status; forget the RFE, the bus ticket, and parents home -- you will have left US, so all that becomes moot.
I thought we went through all this in your other thread?
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nelsona
Registered Users (C)
Do you have a driver's license for the state of Washington? If yes, then you don't live in Ontario.
If not, are you reporting and paying tax for the province of Ontario? If you live in Ontario, you should.
Just a lesson for you to be careful in future. You have already been shown other areas where you had lack of knowledge (it's good to ask questions -- and then appreciate the advice). We are here to help.
Stay calm at the border, answer all questions truthfully, make sure you have all your docs, and all will be fine.
If not, are you reporting and paying tax for the province of Ontario? If you live in Ontario, you should.
Just a lesson for you to be careful in future. You have already been shown other areas where you had lack of knowledge (it's good to ask questions -- and then appreciate the advice). We are here to help.
Stay calm at the border, answer all questions truthfully, make sure you have all your docs, and all will be fine.
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nelsona
Registered Users (C)
Actually, one is not allowed to have more than one DL /ID in US and would likely need to hand in a DL from a province. And you got that ID because you live in WA.
You are free to ignore my advice, but no need to insult.
4 days ago, you did not know how to prove education credentials, you did not know that you could not get a TN at an internal POE, you did not know that you could and should get a TN even for a short-term contract. Now, you know these things. Good for you.
Is it so far-fetched that you might not know the rules on residency, in its many definitions (there are about 6)?
Instead of insulting, show appreciation for what you are finding out on this forum (you haven't thanked a single responder) , and move on.
All the best at the border. You will surely get your TN, in no small part due to the info you have picked up here. But it's comforting to know that if all else fails, you can move back to your former place of residence and easily reestablish your life in Canada.
You are free to ignore my advice, but no need to insult.
4 days ago, you did not know how to prove education credentials, you did not know that you could not get a TN at an internal POE, you did not know that you could and should get a TN even for a short-term contract. Now, you know these things. Good for you.
Is it so far-fetched that you might not know the rules on residency, in its many definitions (there are about 6)?
Instead of insulting, show appreciation for what you are finding out on this forum (you haven't thanked a single responder) , and move on.
All the best at the border. You will surely get your TN, in no small part due to the info you have picked up here. But it's comforting to know that if all else fails, you can move back to your former place of residence and easily reestablish your life in Canada.
Well, ok, thank you for the advice. I have no current drivers license from Ontario, my last one expired and it's not in my possession. I do have pictures of the front and back of that old Ontario license though, but it says expired in 2016. But it does have that Ontario address on it. I could print off pages of that, and I also have both Canada and Ontario government checks from 2016 addressed to me at the Ontario address in my possession. As well as a couple pieces of mail from last year containing my name and the address. Would all this be sufficient?
nelsona
Registered Users (C)
No, it isn't. Don't rely on these to prove foreign residence, because (a) you don't need foreign residence on TN, (b) these don't prove foreign residency, (c)they have expired in any event, and (d) could force you to incorrectly/unnecessarily pay taxes in Canada
Just get your TN.
Just get your TN.
Really? Everywhere I've read says I need to provide a foreign residence that I intend to return to at the conclusion of the TN status. Is this not correct? Did I misinterpret what I read? I thought it said you're supposed to show your foreign residence in order for them to see you're intending to return to that residence, which is what's required for them to see you're establishing nonimmigrant status. How would I successfully establish nonimmigrant status/get my TN if I don't prove foreign residence?
nelsona
Registered Users (C)
There is no such requirement to provide a foreign residence when on TN. Where is this "everywhere" that you reading this?!
You simply need to assure the officer that you understand that you will leave when your status is up. Period. No specific place, not even country. TNs are allowed to live in US, just like you are doing. It is tourists that are required to MAINTAIN a foreign address and prove they will leave , and this they show by MAINTAINING utilities, driver's license, lease, etc, and show a return ticket (or specific plans) which they should carry with them to border as proof, not an envelope with an an old address on it. This is not your case, which is a good thing, since you are not fulfilling this anyway, nor should you.
That is why I said the B2 RFE you got seems to indicate that they did not realize -- or you did not tell them -- that you were requesting B2 to WRAP-UP US affairs. They treated you like a snowbird asking for a few more months in Florida.
Oh, and a 5th reason for you not to use that address: (e) If you say you live there, CBP could very well call them up and ask for you. They will say, "Oh Sissy lives in Washington for a few years now", then you have lied at the border, which is ALWAYS a bad idea.
So, how about we declare class over for the time being, focus on actually getting the TN job, and let us know when you have your TN.
You simply need to assure the officer that you understand that you will leave when your status is up. Period. No specific place, not even country. TNs are allowed to live in US, just like you are doing. It is tourists that are required to MAINTAIN a foreign address and prove they will leave , and this they show by MAINTAINING utilities, driver's license, lease, etc, and show a return ticket (or specific plans) which they should carry with them to border as proof, not an envelope with an an old address on it. This is not your case, which is a good thing, since you are not fulfilling this anyway, nor should you.
That is why I said the B2 RFE you got seems to indicate that they did not realize -- or you did not tell them -- that you were requesting B2 to WRAP-UP US affairs. They treated you like a snowbird asking for a few more months in Florida.
Oh, and a 5th reason for you not to use that address: (e) If you say you live there, CBP could very well call them up and ask for you. They will say, "Oh Sissy lives in Washington for a few years now", then you have lied at the border, which is ALWAYS a bad idea.
So, how about we declare class over for the time being, focus on actually getting the TN job, and let us know when you have your TN.
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