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good moral character

Discussion in 'Life After The Green Card' started by waapples, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. waapples

    waapples Registered Users (C)

    hi all,

    i've just joined here few hours ago, i wish i would have known this forum....

    anyways, it looks like nobody mentioned about the issue with "The person with good moral character."

    like few of you have already read my replies regarding to my US citizenship issue, my US citizenship application got thrown out because of the lack of good moral character.
    i went to the interview and passed all tests and what not, but the officer was holding on the decision, because of the traffic tickets that i had.

    my traffic tickets represented that i didn't have a good moral character, god knows how they could have linked those two different issues together.
    "We(US INS) have to deny your US citizenship application due to your lack of good moral character. We(US INS) don't like your idea of commiting traffic infractions and just resolving them via paying fines for those tickets. You can't be doing this in this country. Please re-apply after 5yrs without no driving infractions."

    anyways, what i'm trying to say here is that just to give you guys heads-up to not falling into the "lack of good moral character."

    nice to meet with ya'll and good luck with everything!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2008
  2. immigrationcom

    immigrationcom Registered Users (C)

    Thanks for your sharing. This could be a issue for many people. IC
  3. DodoDi

    DodoDi New Member


    Are you sure you were quoting a USCIS memo, or did you use your own words? I'm not sure if they can say things like "you cannot do that in this country" in an official context like naturalization. Are you sure that that was the only reason your application was rejected? Can you please share with us the exact wording of the rejection letter?

  4. ThelastMile

    ThelastMile Registered Users (C)

    Can you please post the number of tickets you got in the past 5 years?
  5. waapples

    waapples Registered Users (C)

    Yes, that was what the USCIS officer told me while I was sitting in the office, of course, they wouldn't write that memo on the official rejection letter. ;)
    Oh, one more issue I had to deal was that they(USCIS) accused me on the fact that I was arrested before, which is total BS. (At least that was stated on the official rejection letter.)
    I even went to the state patrol office and city police offices to pull out my personal record which would show my arrest history. I've already sent them an original letter w/ a good phat phrase saying that "We don't have any arrest record for this individual."
    I even told them to go find out whether I have been arrested or not, oh wait a minute, thought they would screen applicants prior to the intervew, right? I meant if i've been arrested in this country, I probably wouldn't have a chance to have the interview at all.
    So basically, the official rejection letter was stating that I had too many traffic tickets and was arrested; and friendly reminder saying that I need to be clean for next 5yrs of everything before I can re-apply.

    2 speeding tickets
    1 following too closely ticket
    1 negligent driving 2nd degree ticket
    1 fail to yield left turn
    = total# of 5 outstanding tickets at the time when I filled out the application.

    Well, the question is that how does my driving record represents my moral character? Does this mean that all peeps on the road who get traffic tickets are all people with bad moral character? Guess how many Americans are out there receving traffic tickets in daily basis.
    I believe that I've been living my life with a good moral so far, meaning that I don't throw garbage on the roads, always recycle & separate the waste, don't waste electricity, have never had an enemy in my life, and etc....
    Doesn't the law clearly stated that they look for the person with a "GOOD" moral character? not a person with "PERFECT" moral character?

    Well, what can I say? I should just shut my mouth and just wait for my turn, right? hahahahahaha!
    I still love this country!!!! :D
    The whole idea behind this post was to remind people about the "good moral character."
    That's all~~
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2008
  6. brb2

    brb2 Registered Users (C)

    Since you believe the written statement "...was arrested" is factually wrong you can ask for a review and have an attorney represent you. Even ACLU may be interested in something like this. On the other hand "morals" is a variable which varies with time and religious and personal convictions of the person. It may well be that as per the officer's belief since most(?) people might have 1 or 2 traffic tickets in their life time, so 5 tickets in a span of 5 years may as per him/her indicate a lack of respect for the law. If you are in no hurry for the citizenship you might as well wait.
  7. immigrationcom

    immigrationcom Registered Users (C)

    Waapples: Thanks you for sharing from the bottom of my heart. If you were never arrested, you absoluately have every right to get a answer from them why they put "...was arrested" in the reject letter no matter whater. ic
  8. waapples

    waapples Registered Users (C)

    well, they claimed that i said i was arrested during the interview, which is total BS! wish they have some sort of audio record of my interview, or the USCIS officer doesn't know how to speak proper English..... who knows... :confused:

    but yeah, i'm just waiting & waiting...... hopefully they don't pop out the same issue and reject me when i re-apply next time.
  9. newman2

    newman2 Registered Users (C)


    Thank you veru much for sharing your experience with us. Do you mind giving more info?

    1) Why did you say that you was arrested if you was not, at least no arrest record shows that?

    2) Did you get your driving record from the state DMV office before you applied? You said that you had "total# of 5 outstanding tickets at the time when I filled out the application"? What is an Outstanding Ticket"? Is the one showed on the report?

    3) What is a 2nd drgree ticket? How do you know that? Have you kept all tickets or you got the ticket info from some where (Where should it be)?

    Again, thank you veru much for your sharing. Hope you will be OK next time.
  10. AmericanWannabe

    AmericanWannabe Registered Users (C)

    Outstanding means it has not been disposed yet.

    The original poster please don't get offended if I am wrong.
    I suspect this is not a real story
  11. waapples

    waapples Registered Users (C)

    well my man, i was very confused about this issue (along with my lawyer). i understand how confused you are now after reading my post....

    hahahah, why in da hell i'm wasting my time here if this ain't true?
    well it's your own choice to believe my story or not, we are living in the free country man! :D

    1. no i didn't, the officer kept asking me whether i've been arrested or not due to the negligent driving 2nd degree ticket that i got, but i clearly stated that "NO" but the officer just made his/her own decision w/o any proof.

    2. yes, i got my driving record from the state DMV office, i also submitted that along with my application.

    like what my lawyer has told me.....
    if they make any type of mistake, then it's my job to fix their mistake by providing them enough evidence.
    my case is still being reviewd by the court.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2004
  12. AmericanWannabe

    AmericanWannabe Registered Users (C)

    Because your style is vey much like that of GCLOCKUP :)

    I have some thoughts about how to show you
    have good moral charcaters. My suggestions are

    (1) Join some non-controversial charity organization
    and list them on the N400 form which ask
    you to list the organization you joined anyway
    (2) Make donations to charity and list them on your
    Chedule A of tax return
    (3) Get a organ donator sticker on your DL
    and show your DL together with your GC
    at the time of interview (or submit
    a copy of yoru DL with your application pakage anyway)

    It is too bad we can not get an organ donor sticker
    on our GC
    (4) Sit on the bank of a river and wait for someone
    to fall in and then scopp him out and become
    a hero.
  13. immigrationcom

    immigrationcom Registered Users (C)

    AmericanWannabe: Thanks for your suggestions. IC

    Can you give a example of this kind of organization?

    What's DL?

    It is too bad we can not get an organ donor sticker
    on our GC
    This is a good idea if you CAN swim.
  14. iamyoohoo

    iamyoohoo Registered Users (C)

    I love this one ... hahahahhahaha...
  15. AmericanWannabe

    AmericanWannabe Registered Users (C)

    There are many charity like Special Olympics,
    Diabetics Association, Children cancer whatever.
    Or at least you know United Way.
    Given current patrioct attitude of Americans,
    maybe AmVet is a good one too.

    Of course, stay away from Muslim
    Charity for the time being for obviousl reasons
    Noadays, even with Mohamed as middle
    name can ofen delay your entry process.

    MADD is not a good one either. One
    CIS officer may be against your
    having too many traffic tickets but
    another may often drink and drive
  16. DodoDi

    DodoDi New Member

    With all due respect to waapples, this story has too many inconsistencies to be believable.

    (1) You said you are waiting for your turn and will re-apply, and in another post said that your case is still in court.
    (2) In one post you advised applicants to have an attorney represent them so they wouldn't face your dilemma, and in another you said the situation confused your lawyer.
    (3) I don't buy that an INS officer will accuse you of something that is not true or jump to conclusions based on non-factual evidence. And I don't think that a naturalization case can simply be rejected because of the mood of the officer or some assumptions s/he's made. The case has to be reviewed by a higher-ranking officer, who'll check the facts, before a rejection letter is sent.

    My $0.02.
  17. sadiq

    sadiq Registered Users (C)

    Anyone seriously listening to AmericanWannabe needs his/her head checked. Do not pay attention to this mindless drivel. This guy is good for a few laughs, but that’s all.

    There are obviously controversial groups (John Birch Society, KKK, CP-USA), but simply joining or volunteering for MADD won’t do any harm; if you were referred to it as part of a DUI plea, that’s a different story.

    Now if you truly want to be Machiavellian, volunteer with the Democratic Party (you can do the Republicans too if you like). Once they know you as dedicated organizer/activist, your local congressman or US Senator (assuming they are from the same party) is likely to give more assistance if you have problems with CIS. Another example is the ACLU. If you’re an active participant, you may get legal advice (often free) from attorney’s specializing in these cases.

    Finally, to those who were rejected, I hope you sought competent legal advice.

  18. waapples

    waapples Registered Users (C)

    smart man!
    acutally you have pretty good points, i might consider following your recommendations.
    Thanks bunch!
  19. waapples

    waapples Registered Users (C)

    my case goes like this;
    it has been already determined that my US citizenship was denied. but i'm in the part of the class-action lawsuit and the court will decide whether they will give me a chance to prove that i'm a person with good moral character. this way, i don't have to go through paying for another interview fees and what not.
    but in any case, who knows how long it would take that to go through, meaning that when the year 2007 comes first than the court decision, i can re-apply w/o waiting for the court decision.
    you were basically confused because you were trying to link those two different issues together.

    because he has never seen a case like mine. i've recommeded to have a lawyer represents you all, because none of us will have exact same dillema.

    Dodi, where do you live? wish i can stop by your house or meet up somewhere to show all the documentations i have on my hands.
    i've been telling you guys nothing but truth.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2004
  20. AmericanWannabe

    AmericanWannabe Registered Users (C)

    You have to be sure that it is legal for a noncitizen
    to be an organizer or activist for American political parties.

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