Definition of "detained" in Question 16 of N400 form.

Hi all...

I'm confused as to what "detained" means in Question 16 (Q16) of Part 10 of the N-400 form. It is:

Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?

If I get pulled over for a minor traffic violation and let go with a verbal warning, or simply let go, does that count as detained?

If I get stopped for questioning as a suspect in a crime, then let go without any charges, does that count as detained?

I was suspected of shoplifting one time (which I did not do), and an officer stopped me for questioning. They reviewed the security camera footage and realized I was not the suspect, so they let me go. Do I have to report this? They checked my ID, but I'm not sure if they wrote anything down.

Thanks!


You have never being detailed in the legal sense of the word. If you are cuffed with nice bracelets by a police officer, taken to a county jail for overnight. That qualifies as a detention. :p It is important to remember this rule of thumb: Never volunteer information to any authority, unless you want to be screwed. For example, at your interview, the officer ask you whether you had breakfast that morning. Your answer should YES. Don't tell him how you had eggs with salmon, rice bread and cereal, plus chocolate milk. He doesn't care about what got into your stomach. ;)

99% of people get in trouble with USCIS because they volunteer information which they shouldn't be offering. Last example, do you intend to practice poligamy in the US? You answer should be NO. If you dad was a polygamist, then spare the officer all the details, he might have ideas that you might want to practice is at some point..:rolleyes:
 
I do not believe there is any possibility that somebody's N-400 application would be denied or that somebody's citizenship would later on be revoked simply because the person did not report a verbal warning by a police officer on their N-400.

Ah, yes. This is the key point to me. Is this possibility real? Can the USCIS look up traffic stops, and do they?

So, the opinions in this thread boil down to two main ones:

  1. DO NOT report (as detention) traffic stops with only verbal warnings, questioning by police, and other such minor stuff, because you will be red flagged and your application will take longer, or be rejected.
  2. DO report the above, because you may be concealing something from USCIS that has a written record. This is a minority opinion shared by only a few folks (specifically, dafortycal).

My policy is that I better damn well report anything that has a written record. So what if my application gets red-flagged because I had some verbal warnings? I did not do anything wrong, in the Good Moral Character sense. It may take more time and go through more hands, but it should not get rejected -- whoever heard of an application getting rejected for traffic stops? The only concern is if you have a lot of those in conjunction with more serious offenses (this is true in my case, see http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=292133 -- yet my IO did not care about the combination of traffic stops and an arrest).

On the other hand, if I fail to report something for which there is a written record, as dafortycal suggested, I may be committing perjury, and that perjury can be established by following a paper trail. But will anyone follow that trail? What are the odds? And if someone does, how well can you do on appeal? Will someone listen to your arguments that you left these things off your N-400 with "good intentions"?

I am not trying to "show off my honesty", I am pointing out that this question is really about accurately estimating which probability is greater:

  1. the probability of USCIS rejecting an application because you got very detailed on Part 10, or
  2. the probability of rejecting it because the USCIS looked up a written report from an officer (even for a stupid dumb thing like a traffic stop)

The bottom line is that none of us has the data to estimate these two probabilities accurately. It becomes a personal choice based almost on faith of sorts. I chose to omit verbal warnings and later tried to append them to my application at the interview. The IO did not care (then again my IO seemed very rushed at the interview). Your mileage may vary.

And why are we so afraid of supervisors looking at our applications anyway?

But I certainly would NOT endorse answering YES to "have you ever claimed to be a citizen..." question because I may have mentioned it in a conversation with friends.
 
[*]the probability of rejecting it because the USCIS looked up a written report from an officer (even for a stupid dumb thing like a traffic stop)
[/LIST]

Not gonna happen. USCIS will not initiate denaturalization because an applicant failed to disclose something that wouldn't have any bearing on the initial decision (i.e., minor traffic ticket). A similar issue has already been brought to court (a woman was mistakenly arrested because police mistook a household plant for marijuana, and didn't disclose the arrest on her N-400) and decided in favor of the defendant. There are several links to the article on this forum, look them up if you're curious.

I'm definitely with Al Southner on this one. Never volunteer too much information.
 
Not gonna happen. USCIS will not initiate denaturalization because an applicant failed to disclose something that wouldn't have any bearing on the initial decision (i.e., minor traffic ticket). A

If such denatualization happenes, tens of million of people will be denatualized and deported. It need s a civil war to fnish the job.
Of course one can worry one alone is ignled out for denatualization.
But if you worry about that, you should also worry about millions of things else that are much worse than denatualization/deportation
 
If such denatualization happenes, tens of million of people will be denatualized and deported. It need s a civil war to fnish the job.
Of course one can worry one alone is ignled out for denatualization.
But if you worry about that, you should also worry about millions of things else that are much worse than denatualization/deportation

I agree. Denaturalization is a very complex, costly and time consuming procedure. It's usually done initiated under serious circumstances (covering up a felony conviction, immigration fraud, membership in a terrorist organization, etc.).
 
Frankly speaking, I doubt everyone here filed all local taxes return.
If you don't own a house and live in apartment, tax collector
may not even bother you for local tax. But the N400 clearly ask
"have you ever failed to file a federal, state, or a local tax return?".

Everyone just care about ffederal. I know a professor who was too
busily involved in his research and never filed state taxes return (it is
his own loss because he could get refund for sure). He just answer No
to that question
 
I had an incident where a police office came home and questioned me about why I was following someone and I agreed that I was folloing. He also check ed my car to see if I was carrying a gun. Then left saying I should not follow anyone just because they smiled at me and said since he was at my house he will be writing an incident report. Does this count as against the have you been detained question? Please help.
 
I had an incident where a police office came home and questioned me about why I was following someone and I agreed that I was folloing. He also check ed my car to see if I was carrying a gun. Then left saying I should not follow anyone just because they smiled at me and said since he was at my house he will be writing an incident report. Does this count as against the have you been detained question? Please help.

No, it doesn't count as having been detained.
 
I had an incident where a police office came home and questioned me about why I was following someone and I agreed that I was folloing. He also check ed my car to see if I was carrying a gun. Then left saying I should not follow anyone just because they smiled at me and said since he was at my house he will be writing an incident report. Does this count as against the have you been detained question? Please help.


You were following someone for what purpose? You even agreed with the officer that you were following someone? Did the officer have probable cause to search your vehicle for a gun? :confused: I agree with Vorpal, you were never detained, but it is possible that an incident report exist somewhere with you "agreeing" with the officer that you were following someone becase they were smiling at you...:D
 
You were following someone for what purpose? You even agreed with the officer that you were following someone? Did the officer have probable cause to search your vehicle for a gun? :confused: I agree with Vorpal, you were never detained, but it is possible that an incident report exist somewhere with you "agreeing" with the officer that you were following someone becase they were smiling at you...:D

I bet this is what happened: the OP, stopped at a sign/light, made eye contact with a cute girl in the car next to his, who smiled at him. The OP, assuming that the girl was flirting, decides to follow her. The girl freaks out, takes down the OP's license plate no., and calls the cops.

As far as checking the OP's car for a gun, the girl could have made this up to spice up the story and get the cops to take her seriously.
 
I bet this is what happened: the OP, stopped at a sign/light, made eye contact with a cute girl in the car next to his, who smiled at him. The OP, assuming that the girl was flirting, decides to follow her. The girl freaks out, takes down the OP's license plate no., and calls the cops.

As far as checking the OP's car for a gun, the girl could have made this up to spice up the story and get the cops to take her seriously.

you are right, thats exactly what happened. The lawyer says to No in the application but as you can imagine I am freaking out....
 
you are right, thats exactly what happened. The lawyer says to No in the application but as you can imagine I am freaking out....

You can safely answer "NO" to the question pertaining to detention. First and foremost, you did NOTHING wrong. Last time I checked, it was perfectly legal to pursue a member of the opposite sex, especially when given something that can be interpreted as a sign. The cop was just doing his job, which requires him to fill out an incendent report every time he responds to a call.

For example, let's say it's 4 P.M. on a Saturday afternoon and you're playing loud music. Your next door neighbor hates music, so s/he calls the cops. The cops show up, investigate the occurrence and inform your neighbor that you're well within your legal rights to play music loudly at 4 P.M. Despite the fact that neither you nor your neighbor did anything wrong, the cops would fill out a report to have a formal record of the call.
 
you are right, thats exactly what happened. The lawyer says to No in the application but as you can imagine I am freaking out....


I hope the OP was not on street volume drugs, which makes people smile all the time. The OP should avoid all smiling women at all traffic lights, I usually run way from woman who smile at me for no reason. :rolleyes: If you want trouble, then invite them over to your house to try and put a syrup on the pancake...:) Beware of anyone who appear interested in your for no good reason....that includes men...:D

If you ever watched Seinfeld, find an episode of when George met this woman on the subway en route to a job interview. He and the woman decided to go and have sex at a nearby hotel, but the woman was a professional hooker. She asked George to undress and tied him up, she proceeded to rob him of $20, and took his only suit. Worst of all, george was left tied to the bed... :D:D:D
 
You can safely answer "NO" to the question pertaining to detention. First and foremost, you did NOTHING wrong. Last time I checked, it was perfectly legal to pursue a member of the opposite sex, especially when given something that can be interpreted as a sign. The cop was just doing his job, which requires him to fill out an incendent report every time he responds to a call.

For example, let's say it's 4 P.M. on a Saturday afternoon and you're playing loud music. Your next door neighbor hates music, so s/he calls the cops. The cops show up, investigate the occurrence and inform your neighbor that you're well within your legal rights to play music loudly at 4 P.M. Despite the fact that neither you nor your neighbor did anything wrong, the cops would fill out a report to have a formal record of the call.

So i guess the same goes for question 15 right? the trouble was she was surely leading me on and it turns out that her husband ended up behind me on his way back and then the story changed...also i am married but it was one of those dumb moments in life...and i hope that doesn't count against moral behavior...
 
So i guess the same goes for question 15 right? the trouble was she was surely leading me on and it turns out that her husband ended up behind me on his way back and then the story changed...also i am married but it was one of those dumb moments in life...and i hope that doesn't count against moral behavior...

Yes. In your situation, you have not committed a crime/offense at all, let alone one for which an arrest was warranted.

The girl was obviously flirting with you, but probably ended up calling the cops because her husband happened to be behind you and wanted to know why you were following her. I know a few taken girls who flirt with random guys just to see if they "still got it". Taken men do the same exact thing (hey, you're married and you did it!). All you did was flirt with a girl who was flirting back. If that's considered bad moral character, then everyone is guilty.

As far as mentioning it on your N-400 or at the interview goes, don't even bother doing it. This is extraneous information that has NOTHING to do with your application. Keep it to yourself and you'll do fine.
 
Yes. In your situation, you have not committed a crime/offense at all, let alone one for which an arrest was warranted.

The girl was obviously flirting with you, but probably ended up calling the cops because her husband happened to be behind you and wanted to know why you were following her. I know a few taken girls who flirt with random guys just to see if they "still got it". Taken men do the same exact thing (hey, you're married and you did it!). All you did was flirt with a girl who was flirting back. If that's considered bad moral character, then everyone is guilty.

As far as mentioning it on your N-400 or at the interview goes, don't even bother doing it. This is extraneous information that has NOTHING to do with your application. Keep it to yourself and you'll do fine.



Yeah, keep those girl meets guy details to yourself - dont even discuss this with your spouse.
If you divulge it to the IO, they may send N-765 to Drew Pinksky summoning him to advise on how to proceed.
 
Yeah, keep those girl meets guy details to yourself - dont even discuss this with your spouse.
If you divulge it to the IO, they may send N-765 to Drew Pinksky summoning him to advise on how to proceed.

Just out of curiosity what is N-765?
 
You were following someone for what purpose? You even agreed with the officer that you were following someone? Did the officer have probable cause to search your vehicle for a gun? :confused: I agree with Vorpal, you were never detained, but it is possible that an incident report exist somewhere with you "agreeing" with the officer that you were following someone becase they were smiling at you...:D

What is the impact of the incident report and does it show up anywhere. I cant even get a copy of the report, all I can get is a verification that such a report exists from the county courts record division..
 
What is the impact of the incident report and does it show up anywhere. I cant even get a copy of the report, all I can get is a verification that such a report exists from the county courts record division..

There is no impact. You weren't detained, arrested, or cited. The N-400 doesn't ask applicants to report every interaction they've ever had with a police officer.
 
What is the impact of the incident report and does it show up anywhere. I cant even get a copy of the report, all I can get is a verification that such a report exists from the county courts record division..

You don't have to worry about this incident at all. You are clear as a newborn butt cheek...:eek:
 
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