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Beat the Immigration system! Join me!

Discussion in 'Life After The Green Card' started by IloveAmerica2, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    OK - I put forward the greatest challenge to help all of us LPR/GC holders have the best life possible!

    Let me put this directly: MANY people on this website HAVE GC, and want to spend time AWAY from the US of A back in home country with family, food.

    Yes - to put it bluntly MANY want to have their cake-and-eat-it-too! Many want to always keep LPR status - yet spend quality time abroad.

    Let's brainstorm: How exactly to do that ?

    1..Please also put the percentage probability [in your guess], you think it is likely to work
    2.. Also put down your assumptions, because these are not obvious.


    ASSUMPTIONSl: For all the examples below, my assumption is that one is travelling back to USA every 6 months, spending 2 weeks OR LESS in USA, then travelliing OUT again for another 6 months. I also assume that one has valid RE-ENTRY permit for 2 years, and it is the first re-entry permit.

    I think getting a RE-ENTRY permit gives one 90% probability of NOT BEING DENIED

    I think getting RE-ENTRY permit and having own home in USA, that is NOT rented gives one 98% probability of NOT getting denied

    I think having RE-ENTRY permit AND 'wife & family' in US, gives one 98.5% probability of NOT getting denied

    I think having RE-ENTRY permit AND house AND wife-in-US-soil gives one 98.6% of not getting denied [and with kids - probably 98.7 % of not getting denied] !

    I think having a CONGRESSMAN as a buddy gives one 99% of not getting denied. The President as one's buddy gives one 99.8% of not getting denied ! [OK - sorry to be so far fetched, but at least we can all judge standards here! Also 100% is NEVER possible, NEVER, unless you are citizen!!!]

    OK - let's get to more realistic examples for people on this board. Because normally one keeps one's family with one; normally one rents out house or gives up home when leaving USA for lengthy times. So WHAT kind of actions can NORMAL people take ?

    RE-ENTRY permit I believe puts one into the 90%-of-not-getting denied category ! It is fairly cheap [compared to hiring lawyer, buying house etc.] - and FAIRLY guaranteed to be given readily [as long as one has not spent 4 out of 5 years abroad!!] I think this is a gem.

    I think filing taxes adds a few more percentage points to above; or is 85% on it's own to demonstrate intent to maintain residency.

    I look forward to all your thoughts. PERHAPS, we can SUMMARISE some of the best, wackiest, greatest, most creative ideas from the "SUM-TOTAL" of postings ever on this board or from anywhere in doing this fun exercise into probabilities [LUCK !] GOOD LUCK !
  2. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    More thoughts

    I think having one's own business in USA 'with' employed people to take care of it, gives one 98% of NOT getting denied [assumption is that YOU TOO are required to run the business actively, so not a passive business; assumption is that you file taxes and are good etc.; BUT you travel abroad a lot!! I am assuming that your travel abroad is NOT really for business purposes but to spend time with loved ones in home country! NOTE: IF your travel abroad was for BUSINESS PURPOSES that can be shown - e.g. you are pop-singer - then I will move above figure to 98.7%].
  3. vitalsigns

    vitalsigns Registered Users (C)

    What is it about your native food that you are willing to risk the freedoms and prosperity you have in the US? Plus, I do not know if it is true for you, but I have been away from my home for many years, and believe me, everything is different there now, even my family. Yours, probably, too. The relationship dynamics you used to have before may not even be there anymore. Some of your friends have probably moved, got married and so on.

    The question I want to ask you, why do you want to be away from the US for that much time?

    I'd rather be here, trading on ebay... making samolians.
  4. vitalsigns

    vitalsigns Registered Users (C)

    And... I'd rather be here, driving Pralay nuts with my witty remarks.
  5. pralay

    pralay Registered Users (C)

    And...I'd rather be here, showing 'vitalsigns' is an absolute nutcase with "huge brain".

    Witty? That does not drive me nut, but willful ignorance, stubbornness and irrational argument do.

    Keep posting your witty remarks. I am enjoying it 100%. :)
  6. pralay

    pralay Registered Users (C)

    From his previous post what I understood that he is having hardtime to setup a business in USA (and I assume he is doing better in his home country).

    It's not very uncommon. Three/four years back I have seen many people going back to their home country India, when they were unable to find software/hardware jobs in USA. After doing well in India, many of them did not hesitate to give up their GC.
  7. spartakus

    spartakus Registered Users (C)

    Beat the system!!?

    well if you are not planning to stay in the US or if you like to stay abroad most of the time, why do you need the GC? it is people who are trying to beat the system that are causing all the hassles and making it hard for everybody else. I have been here for 10 years now and I only visited my birth home once and like others said it is totally different now, US is my home now.

  8. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    Why try to beat the system?

    My title here "Why try to beat the immigration system" will answer many questions put to me. And I hope, will encourage proactive beat-the-immigration systems IN THIS DISCUSSION.

    Why read the information BELOW? Because you will learn 1/How to make MONEY; 2/How to SAVE money; 3/How to Make money in STOCKS; 4/How to make money in CASINOS!; 5/ How to get massive TAX DEDUCTIONS even if you have a full-time job! AND all the time, you'll be HELPING UNCLE SAM [America] in your own unique way ! Be strong, read long! BONUS: How to make money in REAL ESTATE too. BUT PLEASE REMEMBER - the ultimate point of this discussion is to bring us back to the subject at issue: BEATING THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM !

    Let to emphasize something, so we are all "on the same page, on the same wavelength". In my case, stating "Beat the system" does NOT mean "Cheat the system" ! What I mean, is how to "use the system" positively, keeping within the boundaries of the 'law'. I do NOT, NEVER mean 'going outside the law'.

    Let me give a few analogies just for background knowledge.

    CASINO GAMBLING! Gambling is stupid; Casinos are for losers and never for genuinely making money. This is a statistical fact. However, there is only 1 game [some argue 2] that can be beat. It is 'blackjack'. All one needs to use is a very-well-practiced mathematical system, to put the odds in your favor. Also a bit of 'theatre' on top of that will prevent one from being detected by casino security. Is this 'legal' ? Yes. As long as one uses one mind - it is not 'cheating'. It is perfectly legal. But casinos have the right to ban you - hence the 'theatrical' portion and a bit of 'wisdom', like moving from table to table often; or playing in a 'team' is also needed. Summary: To beat the casino system, you need to be a proficient blackjack player through the use of correct mathematical strategy, over 6 months practice at home, preferably having a 'team', a large pot, and a big of theatrics too [For more information: read Stanford Wong books or Ben Mezrich's book is awesome too].

    STOCK MARKET RICHES! According to all elite academic testing, any "trading" [short term in and out] of the market will eventually result is losses, regardless of the system you are using. However, "long term investment", particularly and mainly in 'index' funds will make you a millionaire literally and truly for the price of a "latte a day". [For more info: see "Automatic Millionaire" by David Bach, financial consultant; or Suze Orman's books; or Prof. Burton Malkiel of Yale's "A random walk down Wall Street" is thick but outstanding!] Summary: Long term investment in index funds, with at least 10% of everypay check, preferably put into IRA, 401k automatically, will make you richer than doctors, dentists, lawyers etc. by retirement!

    AMERICAN LEGAL SYSTEM: Contrary to television-fiction-lawyers, lawyers are 'good' people [they have by getting certified by the state bar after a 6 month intensive background check, and they have to keep being good otherwise they get disbarred. Full stop. There is no way around this.].

    Lawyers, are wrongly seen as bad people by the majority because lay-people think lawyers are 'bending' the law or even 'lieing' to win. Lawyers can not 'bend' the law and will be disbarred and imprisoned if they ever lie.

    In the US, ONLY the Legislative branch of government [elected officials in both houses] can 'make the law'. No one else - not even the President. The Judicial branch of government [Judges] are there to 'interpret' the law, and 'not to make it - contrary to popular belief; although admittedly, in so interpreting the law - laws do seemingly get made!'. Lawyers are there to 1/interpret and 2/argue their interpretation of the law, to the Judges. The Judge, will 'judge' whether the lawyer is correct or incorrect. Then a new precedence will be set in case law. Period.

    Because of the fuzzy nature of the written law - in many areas, there is great room for 'interpretation' and 're-interpretation. Let me give you an example:

    "Theft: It is unlawful to take property belonging to another with intention of permanently depriving them of it". If Joe sees his neighbor's vehicle- Sally's car with key in the car; and decides to "take her car for a ride" to do some shopping, without her permission, but with intention of bringing it back - and Sally sees her car gone, calls Police. Police sees Joe in car, stops car, and arrests Joe. Police charge Joe with "theft" [using above definition]. JOE IS NOT GUILTY IN COURT of theft !

    The lawyer will argue that Joe took the car unlawfully [yes] but had mental intention of bringing it back. So that is how a lawyer "beats the system" [but never 'cheats the system']. [By the way, in case you don't like above, the law either has to be more specific, or Joe needs to be charged with other crimes by the Police to do with unlawfully borrowing property, but not 'theft'].

    Tax Law: This is a great area to "beat the system". However, one needs tax lawyers and the reality is only the rich can afford the 'brightest' tax lawyers to spend a lot of time finding "legal" ways of paying the "least" tax possible! Therefore, America's rich "rightly and legally" pay the least relative tax, whereas America's poor pay the highest relative tax !

    Example of 'how to do that'= If rich man like OJ SIMPSON[!] or anyone, sets up a "trust" then different tax laws apply! The advantage of a trust are things like "shielding assets" from people who sue; from the tax-man; and from bankrupty proceedings etc. ! Disadvantage is not easily getting hold of 'all' the capital whenever one wants to [so one loses some freedom, but gains a lot of protection!].

    Example 2: I said previously that IF you own a registered business [even if you hardly work in that business like selling house-to-house cosmetics] AND you also have full time job - then did you know that ANYTIME you have DRINKS OR DINNER with another, IF you state "Business is great, but it could be better", THEN you can claim TAX-DEDUCTIONS [keep receipt, make a note in a diary]!! This is proven by Federal Tax Cases!! Most people do NOT know this, or even if they did, they caN'T be bothered to save receipts! Most people are NOT rich. The rich, do this, AND use that saving, that tax-deduction to RE-INVEST into 'long term stock index funds' to get EVEN RICHER. AND THEN, because they are RICH now, they can HIRE TAX LAWYERS to pay EVEN LESS 'relative tax' ! [For more information look up 'Sanford Botkin, CPA, ATTORNEY'; or seperately even RICH DAD'S LEGAL ADVISOR in google]

    What's my point ? The above demonstrates lots of different ways to LEGALLY and INTELLIGENTLY "beat the system" [but NEVER "cheat the system" like Martha Stewart tried to do AND WENT TO JAIL] ! That is the distinction!


    Real Estate in the USA is amazing. If you have good credit, then you can convince people to give you their property for "NO MONEY DOWN" - or "some money down" ! It takes HARD WORK and is not 'easy', but it is SIMPLE! For example: if people are going 'bankrupt' or 'divorce' or 'death' or 'job move'; then they WANT TO QUICKLY SELL THEIR HOUSE! Find such people [newspaper adverts; court documents] and CONVINCE THEM. Why should they do deal with you? Because you agree to pay HIGHER interest rate BUT over LONG TERM, so ULTIMATELY a/THEY make MORE MONEY from the deal AND b/ you get what you want - which is HOUSE FOR LESS DOWN-PAYMENT! Then you can i/add simple things like painting the house AND RE-SELL it at a profit; OR BETTER STILL - keep the house, rent it out; AND RE-FINANCE/RE-MORTAGE the house, get some money AND PURCHASE 2ND HOUSE!! Keep doing this!! Soon you will OWN A FEW HOMES with NO MONEY DOWN, but you will be getting RENT [to pay off mortgage payments every month]. How to make money? Like STOCKS, over TIME the housing market always goes up!! [For further information see "NOTHING DOWN" by ROBERT ALLEN; "RICH ESTATE RICHES" by DOLF DE ROOS; any RUSS WHITNEY book; and so many more in American bookstores !!!]


    So I hope now I have strongly shown you that my intention is 'clean and clear' - how to BEAT THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM for ALL of us GC/LPR people, that ALSO wants the FREEDOM [which is OUR human right] to indeed go travelling as often as want to, anywhere we want to, in any country BUT always to keep our GC ! I understand though, that to have a GREEN CARD means giving up certain freedoms. However, I want to "legally" increase my freedom to travel and stay abroad [many of us do].

    I do NOT want to hear "moral" arguments [because that would be interesting but unneccessary] about NOT beating the immigration system. I DO want to hear actual systems, methods, ideas and even proven ways you have used or someone else has used.

    From the postings so far: many people are present or former GC holders, that have taken a moral stance just because they themselves have had to stay in America, sometimes for many many years, without travelling back or abroad.

    I repeat: this is interesting but not a place for moral arguments , BUT LET'S PUT TOGETHER methods, techniques and ideas TO creatively BEAT THE SYSTEM!

    THANK YOU! [By the way, I sound conniving, I am not. I am a good person]
  9. TheRealCanadian

    TheRealCanadian Volunteer Moderator

    Actually, I'm surprised I haven't been offered bigger breasts and a larger penis.
  10. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    This is a genuine 'Beat the system' posting

    Hello all.

    I notice that I keep posting 'Let's brainstorm and figure out how to beat the system' but others are posting stuff which makes it look as-if I am trying to 'cheat' the system [instead of legimately 'beating' it].

    This is not some 'Nigerian Bank Scam' - like one posting stated; nor 'larger breasts' as another joked.

    My analogies I think are very good - and I offered a variety of analogies about 'beating the system'. Apart from perhaps the BlackJack example - I think all the other examples are well-known [like Stocks, Real Estate (Carleton Sheets advertises enough on TV), even many people know about at least some legal 'tax' strategies.].

    Maybe the use of words "Beat the System" gives the wrong impression. Perhaps I should merely state "Let's Brainstorm ways to keep LPR/GC whilst enjoying more travel and time abroad [knowing full well, that any lengthy time abroad jeopardizes GC upon re-entry]". Perhaps that is more amenable to digest?

    Anyway - once again, let us brainstorm. Is there anything wrong with that?

    If anyone wants to question the morality of this, you are welcome to do so, but gives me more precise examples of why you think any venture down my line of thinking is frivolous, unwarranted, suspicious, naive or downright stupid. I respect, that everyone is entitled to their view, and to disagree [which is what makes America great too]. However, I want you to be precise, because I repeat, my intention is honest, and I think I personally am going down a 'good road of exploration' and not a bad one, by posing this thread.
    ANYWAY - I've had a NEW thought on How to Beat the System.

    If you are married to a U.S. citizen or have close family that is U.S., and you are a/travelling WITH them back into the USA, then it is my hunch that you are MUCH LESS likely to be questioned.

    How to strengthen this factor even more? 1/ If you 'can show' that you live with that family member in the USA [very easy to do].

    2/ If you show that can show that you are both in the same business, and that your trip abroad was in relation to that business [hard to do ordinarily].

    Let me explore thought no. [2] to strengthen it. If your business involves unusual products that can only be determined outside the USA. EXAMPLE of person that spends time in India: your U.S. business have any one of these goods like Statues of Indian Gods; Indian Spices; Indian Garments [Saari] - and you can show that an extended trip is very important to your business, then it 'may' [or may not] be possible to keep travelling abroad.

    NEW EXAMPLE - If you are a pop-singer/artist/poet/writer, based in the USA, with many gigs abroad, that need you to travel a lot - then I think this is a good way to show you have not abandoned USA.

    OF COURSE, there are MUCH STRONGER, MUCH MUCH STRONGER ways to do this that is indeed within the law:

    If you serve a US public agency [hard to do really IF you are not citizen because Federal agencies do not hire non-citizens ordinarily these days; recognized US research institutions like Harvard [hard to do if you are not super-qualified]. Perhaps working for US religious organization serving a mission abroad MAY be a very good way [I have to look into this].

    By the way, if you volunteer 1hour per week or per month in one of the above recognized organizations, it is my "guess" that you still satisfy the legal requirements !

    Anyway, hope you enjoyed my brainstorm of the day.

    PLEASE, let's all collectively brainstorm ways ! AND I repeat, NONE of our brainstorms ultimately GUARANTEE anything. They are merely brainstorms to give people on this board that do genuinely spend a lot of time abroad, IDEAS on "beating the system" legally, legitamately and never never never 'scamming' immigration!
  11. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    Answering More Questions

    I have re-read the postings on this board. Some of them are rather sardonic. But I do want to answer objections.

    1 - One person says he saw people leave USA back for India a few years ago during the Dotcom downturn [Dotbom] and giving up their GC.

    My thought: If people want to give up their GC, that is up to them. But if people have lost job, need to leave US for awhile and keep their GC, then that too is their right. My thread here, is to give the latter ideas on 'how to' do just that, and do it 'legitamately'.

    For example: If person goes back to India, wants to keep GC, and then finds out that a way to 'beat the system' is to do some work for a recognized US institution in India

    How much work? I am 'guessing' that even 1hour of work every month is all right! Why? Because I doubt immigration will ask "How many hours do you work for XYZ organization' ! Instead they will indeed ask "What were you doing abroad for so long?". To which you can reply "I was proudly working for XYZ recognized organization back in ABC country, and here is documentation to verify that fact, and also documentation relating to the law that allows one to work for US recognized organization abraod without losing GC priviliges". Period. I think this will probably enable one to pass through immigraton WITHOUT further questioning ! [Is it possible that you will get grilled? Yes. Always. But IMPROBABLY in my opinion, on that point!].

    What if you DID NOT spend time in your home country ?! What if you spent time abroad in another country ! Then if challenged by immigration that you have abondoned intention to reside in USA, you can argue, "NOT AT ALL because you can NOT stay indefinitely in foreign country as you are not a citizen of foreign country AND you always intended to return to the USA" !

    I remember a question on this board posed by a FOREIGNER married to US citizen - and that family wanted to live in EU because they got job in EU. Question posed was whether FOREIGN WIFE with GC would lose that privilige. The consensus on the board was 'yes - she would lose GC because they had RELOCATED abroad'. I agree, if someone "relocates" abroad.

    But let's change the wording ! If WIFE with GC was accompanying U.S. husband ABROAD [example: to France because husband landed job in France] , BUT they kept house in USA; then I think there is an argument to be made that WIFE has NOT abandoned intention to be a LPR in USA !


    Because she is merely accompanying husband, and can NOT permanently live in France. In fact, she is in France on a French VISA. So as long as she keeps returning to USA every 6 months, and preferably has RE-ENTRY permit then - VOILA - she is on safer grounds.

    New thought: One thing that is overlooked is the POWER of the RE-ENTRY! Another thing overlooked is the POWER OF WORDS that you use. If you use the word "relocated" then you lose power. If you use another synonym like "visiting foreign nation to accompany husband" then you are on stronger grounds.

    Just some thoughts.
    2. One expert states "Forget it. Trying to "beat" the system will only result in you losing the GC. CIS is not stupid. They have seen it all, and your idea has been around for decades. It doesn't work. "

    The above person makes a VERY GOOD point. Perhaps, I am indeed being stupid - and I am glad someone has pointed this out. So everyone, be forewarned, thoughts on this thread [or any thread] are just that 'thoughts' from non-lawyers or brainstorms.

    However, I DO want to brainstorms ways to "beat the system" withOUT being stupid, IF that is possible. I do know that it IS INDEED possible in other areas of life [stocks, casino(blackjack), ebay even, tax strategies, real estate riches etc.] - and that is what makes me HIGHLY curious about whether it is possible with immigration!

    In mathematics - MULTIPLICATION was invented to BEAT THE SYSTEM - whereby instead of doing tons of addition, one could RAPIDLY multiply huge digits. This is an example of BEATING THE SYSTEM! Taking this thought further, an abacus is used in JAPAN and elsewhere, as ways to undertake SPEED MULTIPLICATION! Once again, a way to BEAT THE SYSTEM.

    Looking for the competitive-edge in any arena of life, surely is one's right and privilige to undertake. That is what I am attempting to 'explore' by discussion and brainstorm, in this thread.
  12. TheRealCanadian

    TheRealCanadian Volunteer Moderator

    The problem with this avenue of reasoning is that there is no "right" to be a Permanent Resident of the US, without actually residing there. The INA does provide some exceptions, but that's it. If you structure your time abroad in such a way that it legitimately takes advantage of the exceptions, then neither I nor (more importantly) USCIS will have an issue.

    Your intended length of stay in a foreign country is irrelevant. Once you take up residence (even if only for a year or two) outside the US, you are liable to lose your permanent residency.

    Yes, an argument could be made - but the mere fact that one owns property in the US does not automatically make it one's primary residence, nor does it make a person a US resident. There are thousands of Canadians alone who have a part-time residence in the US and stay in B status every year for months at a time. The wife would have to demonstrate other aspects of residency as well, like actually being in the US.

    Emphasis on "safer". If she's still residing in France (even on a temporary basis) and merely visiting the US she is eligible for loss of US permanent residency.

    But words only get you so far. And if CBP gets suspicious, they'll ask for evidence to back up your words. And if the evidence (namely your physical presence) backs up the fact that you are RESIDING in the foreign country and merely VISITING the US your words cannot save you. And every year USCIS gets better information on your international travels.

    The problem with your thinking is that you assume it is possible to game the system. The best way to game a casino is not to play. :D Look at stocks; the best way to "beat the system" is not to true. Invest in a low-cost index fund for 30 years, and there's a 99.9% chance you will outperform all the "clever" individuals who are attempting to time the markets, catch the next trend, apply statistical analysis or any other nonsense. Same thing here - just actually reside in the US.
  13. pralay

    pralay Registered Users (C)

    There is nothing to "beat the system" here, because there is already a provision to do so (without beating system), provided working in "recognized US institution" is temporary in nature (with specific timelimit). That is called re-entry permit. USCIS/ICE may consider no timelimit only if you are working for US govt. However, if you are working for non-govt establishment (like IBM India, HP India or Microsoft India) there is NO discount on that ground. The stay has to be temporary in nature. Off course someone can work for US embassy, USACC or working as a private contractor in Iraq or join US army and get stationed at Afganistan. That will keep his/her GC alive. But obviously dot-com-busted people did not want take up that kind of jobs.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2005
  14. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    Beat the system with Pralay!

    I think me and Pralay are now on the same wavelength.

    What Pralay calls "there is nothing in beating the system when there is a provision in the law for this [e.g. working for US government abroad]" - is exactly what "I" mean when "I" use the term 'Beat the system'.

    I want to reiterate that the phrase "Beat the System" is not, not and not again, "Cheat the system". The phrase 'Beat the System' means

    1 - Gathering knowledge about what is and what is not allowed in the system;
    2 - Then taking tactical action so one is proactively USING the system to one's rightful advantage.

    Example once again from Tax Law as useful analogy. [I say 'Use legal tax strategies to rightlyfully pay the LEAST tax possible. This is your constitutional right. Most Americans do NOT exercise it fully. BUT this is completely different to 'tax avasion': the latter is illegal ! Most U.S. people are able to cleverly save a lot in taxes if only they know simple powerful techniques based on established case law. I repeat my example: anytime you have dinner or drinks, even in a dilapidated establishment, meeting a friend[!] or date[!], as long as you talk about business [which is natural], you can claim tax-deduction!]

    2...Some people on this board keep saying - the best way to 'BEAT THE SYSTEM' is NOT TAKING PART

    That is like saying, the best way to pay least taxes is NOT to have your own business. The best way to avoid financial RISK is to NOT invest in anything; and never to start business! It's true from one perspective - but it is INHUMANE from my perspective. It is people's right and obligation as a human being to venture out and 'risk' [but do so intelligently] in order to 'grow'. In fact, psychologicallly speaking,if you don't do this then you are cowering in fear and will feel unfulfilled. To 'grow' and step outside the comfort zone is a 'human need in the psyche: a genetic need' ! What's the relation with this and immigration ? In fact, what's the relation between any of this [E.G. tax law] and immigration ?

    Answer: There are systems like immigration law. There are rules. And there are legal loop-holes. It is our right as citizens [or for those of you who are lawyers] to find such loop-holes, make certain they are indeed legitamate loop-holes and then use the loop-holes to your rightful advantage to 'beat the system' !

    I invite people to do this in this thread - brainstorm ways .

    I repeat my analogy with a casino: The only beatable game is blackjack. The only way to beat it is to master a particularly mathematical strategy. To master this takes 6 months of dedicated practice [similar to learning to type]. Once mastered, the one shifts the statistical probability of winning in one's favor [in effect, one becomes the equivalent of a casino!]. Then one can legitamately 'beat the casino'. Many have done this and made millions [literally]. Some Vegas casinos 'caught and prosecuted' these 'card-counters' for illegal activity. Casinos lost the case. Anyone is allowed to use systems in their 'head': it is their right, and it is NOT 'cheating' [according to case law]. According to mathematical law - it is indulging in simple probability style maths and putting odds into one's favor. It works.

    Back to immigration: What LEGAL ways can people on this board succeed with the myriad of challenges, particularly and exclusively "maintaining GC" yet travelling away often ?

    Ultimately, I agree, and repeat: the BESTway is to STAY IN USA, and NOT travel! BUT most people that come to this board, WANT TO, or HAVE TO travel, and want to know IF they can still maintain green card.

    Let us help! Let me list some ways again:

    2- Carry PROOF of documents
    3 - MAINTAIN RESIDENTAL LINKS WITH USA including one, a few or all of the following:

    HOUSE [OWN preferable otherwise rented from owner] BUT hopefully and sadly NOT 'rented away' during abscence from USA[!!!];
    JOB IN USA ;
    FILE TAXES IN USA including declairing worldwide income;

    Have a good story [always tell the truth OR anticipate this in advance, and therefore DO UNDERTAKE whatever you need to do when abroad so that you can indeed TELL THE TRUTH about why you were away and that it shows you did intend to maintain residency - get it ? This is a POWERFUL tip AND HONEST, I believe]. EXAMPLE - If you went away to 'rest' or 'relocate' in another country, COULD you also be in that other country TO HELP YOUR BUSINESS IN USA? But you protest "I have no business!" - THEN CAN YOU START ONE before you leave USA [costs less than $100 to register in your city tax area], that involves products which YOU MUST OBTAIN or negotiate from your foreign country ?

    BTW - In tax law, you are NOT allowed to "start a business with the primary intention of avoiding taxes" ! WARNING! [Example: If you have job, but want to save MORE on taxes, then you can start a part-time business, which you work at for 10minutes per week[!!!!] - and MANY THINGS in your house become TAX DEDUCTIBLE [!!!] to support your business !!! This is true!]

    I therefore, speculate that you SHOULD NOT use 'strategies' for the PRIMARY INTENTION of 'cheating the system' with immigration matter. My tax lawyer EMPHASIZES LEGALLY AND STRONGLY "SORT OUT YOUR INTENTIONS IN YOUR STOMACH. You MUST start business with primary intention of making a profit!!!" !

    So, I wonder if same analogy works with immigration? I believe it DOES! As long as your PRIMARY INTENTION is genuinely to make a profit! Then all other intentions become 'secondary' and somewhat 'irrelevant' because USA is about 'capitalism', taxes for nation, entrepreneurialism, hard work and 'making a profit' ! GET IT? And also do you get what 'beat the system' means, and how it is DIFFERENT AND DISTINCT from the illegal 'Cheat the system' ? But do you also see how they are VERY SIMILAR in nature? The only thing seperating them is YOUR PRIMARY INTENTION !

    Let's have more ideas folks....
  15. IloveAmerica2

    IloveAmerica2 Registered Users (C)

    Some more answers

    I have just re-read some more of the most recent answers.

    I think now "I" am on the same wavelength as JoeF. Joe states that the best way is to 'go along with the system' and NOT try to beat it. He is RIGHT. I am wrong in the use of semantics. But I have explained and want to reiterate that when I say "Beat the system", I mean use the system, go along WITH the system, do things withIN the system.

    As for LOOP-HOLES: an example was given relating to companies who use H-1 visa to get immigrants but did not pay them. Then immigration closed the loop hole.

    Firstly, I have no knowledge whether companies were being 'legal' in so doing above. IF they were being LEGAL - then that is ALL RIGHT, AND INDEED A LEGITATE LOOPHOLE.

    However, if they were doing 'wrong' then that is 'CHEATING THE SYSTEM' [not "BEATING" it]. I deduct, that these companies were indeed 'cheating' because they got 'fined' ! Therefore, I conclude that "my" requests for ideas, and my own examples are DIFFERENT because I am looking for ways to 'GO ALONG WITH THE SYSTEM - which in my semantics is called "BEAT THE SYSTEM" ".

    Someone argued, that LOOP-HOLES ARE BAD because they lead to the 'closing up of loop holes'. I disagree ! In tax law, they keep changing the law to CLOSE the loop-holes. But what is the results? Old loop-holes get closed whilst NEW LOOP HOLES get opened !

    I think of it like a smaller WINDOW-FRAME in a larger WINDOW-HOLE. If you move the window to the right, in order to close the gap, then a gap develops on the left-hand side! If you want to close the window to the left now, then a gap develops on the right hand side again! I believe that the law works like this in many areas [but NOT all areas. For example: STATUTORY RAPE means that any sexual intercourse with a person under 18 is rape. There is no legal argument to say, "they both consented; the girl was about to turn 18 in 10minutes time, and she was 17 AND her parents had no objections, AND they loved each other, AND they already have a son together, AND they are recognized as married in their religion". The judge will say "Sorry folks. It is rape - and the guy is going down down down for a long long long time!" ] Luckily, immigration law is not that stringent in this area.

    Anyway, back to immigration: ideas gentlemen and ladies....... let's have 'em !
  16. TheRealCanadian

    TheRealCanadian Volunteer Moderator

    That was no loophole - it was never legal, but DOL started cracking down on it as more shady businesses tried to take advantage of poor enforcement.

    The key important thing about any legal loophole is that you can trumpet the fact that you are taking advantage of it, and there's nothing that the authorities can do about it. Tax loopholes don't rely on fancy wording and a hope that IRS won't dig too deeply; any legitimate loophole MUST be able withstand an audit. Same thing with immigration.

    The ONLY way you can legally reside outside the US with the GC are the examples mentioned in the thread. Any other 'loophole' relies upon fancy wording and a hope that CBP or USCIS don't dig too deeply - which makes them false loopholes.

    Again, the best way to win the game is not to play. It's amazing to me how many people expend all sorts of efforts to gain permanent residency, and then don't actually want to live in the US. If you want to indefinitely (but temporarily) reside in the US and a foreign country, run a business and have your spouse work without restrictions, you don't need a Green Card. You need an E visa; they're a lot simpler to obtain.

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