Main Diff between S and C Corp

[ravi_comp]

Joe,
The main dissadvantage of a C Corp is double taxation of distribution of profits. One at the Corporate level and one at the shareholder level.

Bush has proposed a legislation to remove this. If this passes the congress and senate then S Corp will probably be extinct and i guess most S Corps will convert themselves to C.


Thanks

ravi

[Abdenour Achab]

Hi Joe,

Ravi is right in the disadvantage of the of the C.
Essentially, if you plan to live every year on the income
from your corporation, S is probably better.

However, there is an often overlooked advantage of the
C compared to the S. S profits are taxed at your regular
income level (anywhere from 0% to ~40%, depending
on your income and the state you live in). If you plan
to reinvest all or most of your profits into the business,
then there is NO or little double taxation. And your profits
are only taxed at the corporate tax rate (not sure
how much, but I believe in the 30%s or so). So there may
be cases where it's better to have C.

In short, S is better for most self employed, but not all
of them. If you plan to use the profits to grow the business
(as opposed to buying a nice house), you may want to do
the math.

[Abdenour Achab]

Hi JeoF,

As Ravi and I have posted earlier, the main
issue is how much profits you and/or your
business keeps after taxes. Whether it's "an MLM
SCam-type business" or not is irrelevant, since
both S and C are part of SCam.

In my case, I have done the math and opted
for an S corporation for now, as I will be using
the profits to live on for the next couple of years,
and my personal tax bracket isn't that high.

I just wanted to point out that S is not always
better.

[Abdenour Achab]

Hi ****,

> In other words, sucking money out of desperate people blended by your deceptive claims...

Not exactly.

> Peddle your scams somewhere else.

What scams ? If you have other ideas about other forums where I can find "desperate people" that I can "blend with my deceptive claims", please let me know. I am always on looking for such forums to share the opportunity.

> And, how about earning money the decent way for a change?

You mean getting up at 7:00 am in the morning and commuting to work !!!??? No way !!!!!!!!
You can keep my share of that world.

> I always expose scams like yours as soon as I see them.

Then please expose them also in another forum where I am "peddling my scams":
http://www.thewellnesscommunity.net.
I posted several messages on that forum and already had people join me in venture as a result of such posts, because you were not there to warn them. I always use my name and phone number, so you will have no problem finding my posts.

> For the truth about these MLM scams, go to
> http://www.mlmwatch.org/
> http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/workfromhome.html

The cockeyed site is very informative. I read it 6 months ago when you first posted it on this forum.
I liked very much the way the guy actually did an investigation on his own and reported the results
on a web site, along with an analysis.
That's quiet a change from so many web sites that just rehash content from books, other sites, etc.
Thank you for having posted the link here.

[Abdenour Achab]

The link I meant to post was:
http://www.thewellnesscommunity.net/

[Abdenour Achab]

Hey **** !

I am going to try the Quote feature today. Hope it works.

Originally posted by ****
I went to your site. Outrageous claims, no substance. In one word: snakeoil.
That's what you are, a modern snakeoil salesman.

Yes, that's what I mean. Get rich quick schemes never work.

I hate alarm clocks and getting up in the morning.
You will have to come up with a better idea if you want me to change how I make my living.
I thought of opening a SnakeOils'R'US store, but then I would have to get up early to take care of it. I am waiting to hear your ideas on how else I can make a living working only a few hours a day.

Ok, so you found desperate people who were happy to pay for snakeoil.

YUPPERS !!!!

But apparently not here where I hang out.

Nope Not in this forum People reading your posts became too smart for me to lure them.
But I am about to lure somebody from where you physically hang out. Southern California.
More precisely, San Diego.
I sent him to attend the following regional meeting this Friday February 21 at 7:30 PM:

Regional Meeting - San Diego, California
Location: Hilton San Diego Resort, 1775 E. Mission Bay Drive San Diego, CA 92109
Phone: (619) 275-8904
Friday - 7:30 pm - Open Opportunity Meeting (Open to everyone)

So far, 50% of the people I sent to such meetings have joined my business. You better be there if you want to save the world from my scams and snakeoil !!!

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by ****
If you are trying to be funny, forget it. You are in fact just pathetic. A pathetic little loser who has to resort to an unethical business.

People even fall for the Nigeria 419 scams, so I am not surprised that you find people falling for your scam.
That doesn't change the fact that what you do is a scam and you are a lowlife and scumbag for swindling people out of their money.
End of story.

**** is upset

[Akash_b30]

to form an S corp?

I heard this form a lawyer, is this true?

[enterpriner]

Others: pl. bare with me this is totally out of focus post to this thread!


Hi Abdenour Achab:

I am impressed by Amway style marketing guys. I like to know few things from them can you please help me out:

1). How do I introduce my product to that chain.
2). Can I build a separate chain, totally out of that product chain, picking few good guys in that chain ?
3). How flexible is the owners ( people who decide which product to be sold) to add new product.
4). What is the normal margin the company(company & its sale force) keeps.
For example: If I want to supply a Brand new Sony TV priced 400$ in bestbuy to your company what is normally excepted buy price you (your company) will have ? Just for comparison, I will not be supplying a branded item. I will have a special brand name for your company alone( this brand need not have adv out side, your company will take care).
5). What is the return policy your company have ?
6). whom to contact for such info.

PS: I am not interested in being a sale force. I just want to make use of that energy you guys have.


Thanks
Ent.

[Abdenour Achab]

Hi Enterpriner !

Originally posted by enterpriner
Others: pl. bare with me this is totally out of focus post to this thread!


Hi Abdenour Achab:

I am impressed by Amway style marketing guys. I like to know few things from them can you please help me out:

I am not involved in AmWay and can only give you second hand information. AmWay has changed its name in the US to Quixtar,
and I will be using AmWay and Quixtar interchangeably.

1). How do I introduce my product to that chain.

You can always approach them. Whether or not they will accept your product or service is a different story.
What I would recommend is for you to ask that question to Paul Zane Pilzer. Paul Pilzer is a former economic advisor to presidents
Reagan and George Bush senior.
Pilzer developed an educational product for school kids, and tried to distribute him through several channels, most of them
traditional (Barnes and Noble, etc.). All distribution channels failed except one: AmWay.
He is now a stay at home dad and runs http://www.thewellnesscommunity.net web site.
He is very generous with his time and answers all the questions addressed to him on that forum. He doesn't respond that fast
to e-mail. So you would be better off posting the question on his
forum rather than e-mailing him.

2). Can I build a separate chain, totally out of that product chain, picking few good guys in that chain ?

Sure ! This is free country. According to data from software compnanies that sell software to would be MLMs, over a thousand "MLM"s are created every year in the US. I use quotes because many of the so called MLMs are actually pyramid schemes that provide no value to end consumers in terms of a valuable product or service. They are created solely so that the
owners and people at the top make a lot of money in a zero-sum game where most people actually lose money.

But many others are legitimate MLMs. To mention only the ones that exceeded a Billion dollars in annual sales (YES, a Billion+/year), there is:
1 - AmWay (started by selling soap, now sells everything
under the sun).
2 - Shaklee (sells vitamins).
3 - Mary Kay (sells cosmetics).
4 - Herbalife (sells herbal supplements)
5 - Excell Communications (phone and internet services)

There are over a hundred other MLMs selling million of $$$ a year.

3). How flexible is the owners ( people who decide which product to be sold) to add new product.

There are two kinds of MLMs with respect to that question.
Some MLMs are created to market a specific line of products and/or services (like Legacy For Life, the one I am involved in). Those would not be open to consider your product.
Other sell a wide variety of products/services. Examples: AmWay, Market America. These are the ones you should approach with your product or service.
Besides asking Pilzer for his own experience, I recommend you look at Dr. Charles King's book:
"The New Professionals: The Rise of Network Marketing as the Next Major Profession".
Two chapters in the book are catalogues of exisiting MLMs, along with King's due diligence investigation of them.
That will give you a list of companies to approach.

4). What is the normal margin the company(company & its sale force) keeps.
For example: If I want to supply a Brand new Sony TV priced 400$ in bestbuy to your company what is normally excepted buy price you (your company) will have ? Just for comparison, I will not be supplying a branded item. I will have a special brand name for your company alone( this brand need not have adv out side, your company will take care).

You are touching here a very important subject: the economics of distribution in general, and of MLM in particular.
If you bought a $600 brand new Sony TV at Best Buy in 1990, you would be paying:
$120 (or 20%) for Sony's R&D and manufacturing
$480 (or 80%) for distribution. That's include Sony's marketing campaigns
for branding, BestBuy's TV and radio ads, BestBuy's store,
etc. etc. etc.

Today, mostly thanks for cheap advertising on the internet, the same TV would cost you only $400 at BestBuy, as follows:
$120 (or 30%) for Sony's R&D and manufacturing
$280 (or 70%) for distribution.

If the same TV was sold through a legitimate MLM such as AmWay or Market America, it would only cost the customer $300:
$120 (or 40%) for Sony's R&D and manufacturing
$180 (or 60%) for distribution. Mostly commissions paid to
distributors, since UPS would ship directly the TV from
Sony's wharehouse to the home of the customer.
A distributor would buy the same TV for only $240,
the distributor's wholesale price.

What MLM does is cut distribution costs from 70% to 60% to customers, 50% to distributors, resulting in substantial savings
to both (the consumers), and at the same time making millions
to distributors who built large networks.

5). What is the return policy your company have ?

.

Again, the company I am involved in is not among the ones you want to approach. But just to answer your question, we offer
a 90 days no questions asked money back guarantee for new customers. Customers can consume our product for a couple of months and, if for any reason, they are not completely satifsfied,
they get a 100% refund, no questions asked.

6). whom to contact for such info.

I believe that was answered mostly answered above.
When you contact individual companies, ask for the marketing VP.

PS: I am not interested in being a sale force. I just want to make use of that energy you guys have.

I hope you can find an MLM to distribute your products. Remember to be persistent. Don't give up if a couple of them turn you down.

[/QUOTE]
Thanks
Ent. [/QUOTE]

You are very welcome. Please don't hesitate to ask more questions if any of of my answers is not clear enough.

I am by no means an experts, but I investigated this industry for 6 months before deciding to join, and which company to join.
So I have learned a few things in the process and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to share that knowledge.

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by ****
Just like your scam.

Just like your scam.

Just like your scam.

Hey ****, aka scam eradicator !

You probably already know this, but just in case.
Pyramid and Ponzi schemes, as well as any other money games where no value is provided to the
end consumer, are illegal in the US.
People who knowingly promote them are subject to heavy fines and jail sentences.
The government agency in charge of enforcing such laws is the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

If you truly want to eradicate scams, I suggest you file complaints online at http://www.ftc.gov
I don't know if they actually investigate all cases reported to them. I personally filed a complaint
at that site a few months ago when I was approached to participate in such a money game.
I haven't heard anything since.

[Abdenour Achab]

Hey **** !

Originally posted by ****
Why are you promoting your scam, then?

I am not promoting a scam.
Please check out http://www.mlmexposed.com/pyramids.html for
the difference between an MLM and a pyramid scheme.

They do. They are busy with all the 419 scams. My spamfilters forward these automatically to the FTC.
Your posts to this forum are (unfortunately) not illegal. But if I ever receive spam from you, you will end up on my blacklist and your spam would go to the FTC.

SPAM is a different story. Actually, I making tens of posts in this forum would have been illegal
if it wasn't replying to mostly your posts.
Unsollicited commercial advertising is illegal in public discussion forums if they are posted out of context.

So, thanks for giving me the opportunity to make my sales pitch while staying within the law.

[Abdenour Achab]

Hey **** !

Originally posted by ****
You are making unsubstantiated claims. Or, in plain English, you are lying on your website.
That's the scam.

Could you tell me what unsubstantiated claims are you referring to ?

You are so desperate for publicity that you are happy about bad publicity?
You really need to learn a lot about running a business. But then, everybody who participates in a money destruction "business" like yours forgot to attend Econ 101.

Any publicity is productive publicity for me. I am not in the business of selling the opportunity or the product.
My commission check is proportional to the number of people I get intrigued enough to
want to be willing to spend a couple of hours of their time investigating both.
Since some small percentage of those people end up doing the business or buying the product.

Bad publicity works just as well as good publicity in that case. Keep up the good benevolant work **** !

[enterpriner]

Hi ****:

These guys have lot of patients, which is there art of marketing. Why to argue that they are wrong. I too believe that they do lie to people not very smart. Then it is indusial personality to choice the profession to cheat or to do an honest business.
Everywhere the innocent man is being cheated in the world. You defiantly cannot cheat a smart guy, the only way is to cheat a poor guy!
I think, we the small businessman here, should make use of all the avenues to bring our business profits. They have the talent (you can all it as a begging talent), which we do not have. Then why not use them, where we need that talent. This is again my opinion.


Ent.

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by enterpriner
Hi ****:

These guys have lot of patients, which is there art of marketing. Why to argue that they are wrong. I too believe that they do lie to people not very smart. Then it is indusial personality to choice the profession to cheat or to do an honest business.
Everywhere the innocent man is being cheated in the world. You defiantly cannot cheat a smart guy, the only way is to cheat a poor guy!
I think, we the small businessman here, should make use of all the avenues to bring our business profits. They have the talent (you can all it as a begging talent), which we do not have. Then why not use them, where we need that talent. This is again my opinion.


Ent.

Hi Enterpriner,

Would you mind sharing with us the kind of product or service
you are interested in promoting ? That will help focus the
discussion a little bit whether mlm is the right vehicle to
promote it.

[enterpriner]

T-shirts & other related

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by enterpriner
T-shirts & other related

Hey Enterpriner !

I don't mean to discourage you, and am no expert in distribution, but I personally don't believe that MLM
is the right distribution vehicle for T-Shirt, unless there is something very special that demands
one to one education about your T-Shirt.

The real added value of MLM is to educate potential customers about products and services that
most people don't know exist, but that can
dramatically improve people's lives.
For example, there are over 77 million Americans clinically obese, and over 184 million overweight
and unhealthy.
Last year, being overweight has replaced smoking as the leading cause of death in the US. Most of these people consider supplements to be snakeoil, and it's reported that 25% of people
who tried supplements either saw no positive effects, or, worse, got sick from them.

Most people of these 184 million, if properly educated, would gladly pay $50/month for a
a supplement that would give them more energy, help them lose weight in a healthy way
(I mean by that by not dehydrating them or making them sick) and avoid degenerative deseases.
Such supplements cost under $10/month in terms of engineering work (amortized R&D and manufacturing) for a month supply.

The $40/month or so difference between value to
customer and engineering cost is what makes
MLM a viable model economically.
$40/month may not sound much, but if you were to get a $5,000 loan at 6% interest rate over 30 years, your month payments would be under $36/month.

The point here, what makes MLM a cost effective economic model for certain types of products and
services is:
1 - The need for one to one education.
2 - The big $$$ difference between value to customer and cost to develop+manufacture.
3 - The fact that the product is consumable with high reorder rate, turning $40/month into over $5,000 worth of profit.

Unless there is something fantastic about your T-shirts, I don't believe it is something that
they are going to do very well through an MLM
channel.

[Abdenour Achab]

Hey **** !

Originally posted by ****
And the products that you pitch don't do any of these things.

And how do you know that ?

Your products are not FDA approved (which usually is printed in very fine print somewhere to be legal),

That's right. And neither is this immigration forum. So why are you using a forum that's not FDA approved ?

and lots of studies have shown that these things are just placebos.

Could you tell me where are these studies ?

If they would actually help, they would have to have FDA approval.

Really ? This forum is not FDA approved. Are you saying it therefore doesn't help ?

But of course, this is something you don't say on your website or anywhere else.

Neither does this immigration forum say that it's not FDA approved. Why don't you harrass the web master to show that ?

That would be bad for your "business".

That definitely would.

You give even used car salesmen a good name.

Great !!! At least am making some friends in the process.

Stop your stupid marketing pitch already.

I'll stop as soon as you stop giving me an excuse for making it ... well ... maybe not ... I will always find other excuses to make my pitch.

Get a real job.

Are you hiring ? I get up at 1:00 PM, start watching TV at 6 or 7 PM, and wouldn't work for less than a 6 figure income. Tell me where to mail you my resume.

Now, some education for you **** so you don't keep sounding so stupid. FDA does NOT approve immigration forums or dietary supplements. FDA only approves drugs. The only thing they may provide about dietary supplements is the GRAS rating (GRAS = generally recogonized as safe).

[enterpriner]

Not FDA approved ? really!.
What is the basis of a drug if not FDA approved ?

Let us change my product then easy money by fooling people, why not I supply some kind of
1). Hair growing liquired, apply every day before bed for 3+ month to see effect. ( in side note we can write, some thing to say it is not garantied for all etc etc.. which no one will see)
2). Brain imporve surip
3). Weight lose by looking at TV & sleeping
more..

Any way I never buy any MLM products, I do not care.

Well, I do accept people are being cheated by these MLM stuff, but people with poor brain (& not realistic) should be cheated by some one or other.
I wonder why govt. is not controlling this. I recently read a article in EconomicTimes which said Amway had greate increase in sales last year!. There are lot of people, who are getting cheated.

****, is there a form where people like you can get toghether and fight and remove all these type of MLM business from market.

I remember, there was a some thing like Matrix kind of business before and now it is illegal!. We shall look forward for MLM to become illegal! till then we should make money out of these MLM's not by adding more brain less people but using them!..

Best of luck for you ****. I will let these form know if I every use MLM for my products. I really doubt, I came to know from other source they take low quality & high margin products only. I am still looking for a right guy to use this avnue..

-Ent

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by enterpriner
Not FDA approved ? really!.
What is the basis of a drug if not FDA approved ?

Let us change my product then easy money by fooling people, why not I supply some kind of
1). Hair growing liquired, apply every day before bed for 3+ month to see effect. ( in side note we can write, some thing to say it is not garantied for all etc etc.. which no one will see)
2). Brain imporve surip
3). Weight lose by looking at TV & sleeping
more..

Any way I never buy any MLM products, I do not care.

Well, I do accept people are being cheated by these MLM stuff, but people with poor brain (& not realistic) should be cheated by some one or other.
I wonder why govt. is not controlling this. I recently read a article in EconomicTimes which said Amway had greate increase in sales last year!. There are lot of people, who are getting cheated.

****, is there a form where people like you can get toghether and fight and remove all these type of MLM business from market.

I remember, there was a some thing like Matrix kind of business before and now it is illegal!. We shall look forward for MLM to become illegal! till then we should make money out of these MLM's not by adding more brain less people but using them!..

Best of luck for you ****. I will let these form know if I every use MLM for my products. I really doubt, I came to know from other source they take low quality & high margin products only. I am still looking for a right guy to use this avnue..

-Ent

Hi Enterpriner,

Drugs have to be approved by the FDA before being legally
marketed in the US. Dietary supplments are classified as Food,
not drugs.

Below is the link to the official FDA site regarding dietary supplements: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/supplmnt.html

What I suggest for **** to fight non FDA approved stuff is stop
eating any food that's not FDA approved. He will then starve to
death within 5 weeks (since FDA doesn't approve foods - it
only regulates them) and won't have to put up with MLM's
anymore.

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by ****
I won't get dietary supplements, because they kill people, as shown in recent weeks and referred to in the newspaper article I linked to.
But I guess you rather not comment on that one, because it is bad for your "business".

Hey **** !

I wasn't referring to dietary supplements. I was referring to bread, eggs, chocolate, tomatoes, etc.,
none of which are FDA approved. Since you are against some type of food on the basis that they
not FDA approved, you should be consistent
in your beliefs and not eat any food that's not
FDA approved.

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by ****
I notice that you are running out of arguments. I don't care about your "dietary supplements", I only care about you claiming obviously wrong things about them on your website (and in your ill-conceived marketing pitch here).
/

Am still waiting for you to show me a single example of false claim that I made.

You haven't addressed that, instead you try to divert attention away from it. An old and tired tactic that just doesn't work with me.
You claim health benefits for your stuff.

YUPPERS !!!!!!!!

I have pointed out that you can't do that without FDA approval.

Yes I can !!!! Look, here is proof that I can. Am hereby stating that my snake oil help maintain
healthy cholesterol levels. I just made a claim without FDA approval. That's proof that I can
make a health benefit claim without FDA approval.

If you don't have FDA approval, your claims are worth nothing,

Maybe to you they are worth nothing. To me, they already brought $$$$'s

and are in fact false and misleading,

Nope. Just because claims are made without FDA approval doesn't make them false and misleading.
You make all sorts of claims in this forum every day without FDA approval. Are you saying that
all of your claims are misleading too ?

as the officials quoted in the LA Times article said. Which part of that don't you understand?

The part I don't understand whether you are truly a bone head or if you are just acting like one.

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by ****
It does not, and you know that. And of course you have the help from your supplier to formulate it in a way that it isn't a proof.

We were arguing about the ability to make claims without FDA approval, not about proofs.

"Helping" to do something is lawyer-speak for "we know that it doesn't do anything". Where are the scientific studies that show that these sugar-pills have any positive effect?

What sugar piils. Am not promoting any sugar pills.

You have none.

I don't have any scientific studies about sugar pills. But I do have some about the supplement
I am promoting. Go to http://www.hyperimmuneegg.org/
and click on Clinical Studies and Patents for more details.

Ergo, you are a fraud.

You called me a fraud before, and now you are calling Ergo a fraud as well !!!!??? Who is this
Ergo guy by the way ?

The part I don't understand is why you don't acknowledge that you are a fraudster. You certainly act like one.

I don't have FDA approval to acknowledge that I am a fraudster. Nor do I have FDA approval to
act like one.

[Abdenour Achab]

Originally posted by enterpriner
Not FDA approved ? really!.
What is the basis of a drug if not FDA approved ?

Let us change my product then easy money by fooling people, why not I supply some kind of
1). Hair growing liquired, apply every day before bed for 3+ month to see effect. ( in side note we can write, some thing to say it is not garantied for all etc etc.. which no one will see)
2). Brain imporve surip
3). Weight lose by looking at TV & sleeping
more..

-Ent

Hi Enterpriner !

If you want to make money with your brain improving sirup, you better do so before the FDA implement
the new regulations it proposed today.

The full text of the proposal is at
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00876.html

Here is an excerpt:
"This proposed regulation follows the agency's consumer initiative announced last December intended to improve FDA's policies on providing information about health consequences of food and dietary supplements and to increase enforcement efforts to prevent misleading health claims made by certain dietary supplement manufacturers."

The regulation will not be implemented before June. You better get moving with your sirup.