Please help

[immigrant27]

My husband and I got married in August 2, 2008. At the end of September, I found out that he is cheating on me with his ex girlfriend. I went crazy and told him that I am going to deport him. At that time, we filed petition but did not hear anything back for INS. He fough physically, I had a lot of brusing on me. I told him I would be filling for Order of Protection, but I did not mean it I just wanted to hurt him. However, the next day he went to the police and filled a police report stating that I was physically abusing him. I am 115 5'2 and he is 180 5'11. Then he would come home and would tape record me for hours where I was crying and telling him all the mean stuff while he was collected and nice. Then he asked me to give him another chance, and I did not want to. But he lost his job and I felt bad for him and decided to take him back. In February of this year, we went to an interview and he got his temporary green card. I found him again calling his ex. I finally left for good and thinking about filling for annulment on the gounds of fraud. He missrepresented his feeling towards me and fraudulently talked me into marrying him. However, he is telling me that I can do nothing about it and I am the one who has more to lose but he won't be in trouble for anything. He told me that he spoke to several attornies and they all told him and if I would do something like that I would be in trouble b/c before I married him I knew that he was illigal and I knew that he was in previous relationship. Please anyone help me. I just do not know what to do.

[MOM1211]

File for annulment due to fraud. The worst they will do is deny it and you file for divorce. He will have to prove he married in good faith ESPECIALLY if you file for annulment (that will make it harder for him to get it) to get his 10 year green card on his own. You should also write a letter to the interviewing officer if you have PROOF he married you fraudulently.

If he did tape you it doesn't matter. In most states it's illegal to tape record people without their permission.

[immigrant27]

he betrayed me badly and i am devistated and confused. thank you for your support

[MOM1211]

Also, no lawyer would tell him that. you can't get into trouble for filing for annulment or divorce. They don't care if you knew he was illegal, and he has to prove it either way it doesn't matter. He sounds like a complete moron.

[AzBlk]

Just move on to bigger and better things. If I believed everything you said I think your husband set himself up good for a battered spouse defense. He has police reports, recordings of you verbally and emotional abusing him. Since he lives in the home with you, he had every right to record what happening in that house and it is not illegal. If you can get an annulment then he might lose his GC but if you can not just move on

[MOM1211]

Actually it IS illegal in some states. I looked into it because I wanted to tape my ex husband threatening me before our divorce, and if I did it without his knowledge especially in our home, it was against the law to use it without his consent.

[AzBlk]

You are confusing illegal and inadmissible. If it is exonerating evidence it will be allowed but it can not be used for conviction. There are many legitimate reasons for home owners to have recorders in thier house.

[MOM1211]

No, I'm not. According to everything I've read, it is ILLEGAL in at least 12 states to tape record a person with the intent of using it, in person and on the phone without their consent.

[AzBlk]

Immigration law is federal law and federal statutes allow one party consent to record conversions. What that means is one party can record the other party without the other parties knowledge. To put this in context the OP's husband can and most likely will present the evidence he has when removing conditions.

[MOM1211]

At the same time, he'd have to prove it was her because they won't say ok here is some random woman saying things on a tape, here's your green card!

[roxy2009]

DO NOT listen to those people who tell you to move on to better things and to forget about it and life it too short, bla bla bla bla..DO NOT listen to that crap and don't take crap from no one. Make sure no matter how hard it is or how long it takes, you get him deported... DO IT !!!

[roxy2009]

MoM1211, you are correct...

AzBLK, you are wrong, you cannot just tape record people for whatever reason without their permission..this is America, not a third world country !!!

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by roxy2009

AzBLK, you are wrong, you cannot just tape record people for whatever reason without their permission..this is America, not a third world country !!!

Roxy, thank you for your opinion. Now, here are the facts:

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states.html

It depends on the state, whether recording of private oral communications on one's own property is allowed.

[AzBlk]

Originally Posted by roxy2009

MoM1211, you are correct...

AzBLK, you are wrong, you cannot just tape record people for whatever reason without their permission..this is America, not a third world country !!!

Roxy You need to understand that immigration is governed by federal statutes. Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as “one-party consent” statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it.

[immigrant27]

Thank you all for your support. I live in "one-party consent" state, South Carolina. I went to an attorney yestarday, and he agreed to represent my case. I am filing for an annulment. I have his phone bills where he was constantly talking to her through text messages. He even called her while we were on our honeymoon . My attorney told me that it is a stratch but I just want to try. Also in my state, we have to be separated for 1 year before we can get a divorce. That would be soooo bad if I would have to be married to him for another year. As to the recordings, he gave me those recordings. I actually have tape recorder, but I really cannot trust him again. No one knows, may be he has other recordings or re-recorded the same to the other tape and kept it just in case. I cannot believe that someone would use another person in such a bad/mean way. I trully believe what goes around comes around. I would never do something stupid again and trust another person that is illigal in US.

Are you all sure that if I would get an annulment, he would be deported?

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by immigrant27

Are you all sure that if I would get an annulment, he would be deported?

If you got the annulment, sure, because it's a court judgment that states that the marriage was either invalid, or not in good faith. Either finding is fatal to a marriage-based GC.

[AzBlk]

Originally Posted by immigrant27

Thank you all for your support. I live in "one-party consent" state, South Carolina. I went to an attorney yestarday, and he agreed to represent my case. I am filing for an annulment. I have his phone bills where he was constantly talking to her through text messages. He even called her while we were on our honeymoon . My attorney told me that it is a stratch but I just want to try. Also in my state, we have to be separated for 1 year before we can get a divorce. That would be soooo bad if I would have to be married to him for another year. As to the recordings, he gave me those recordings. I actually have tape recorder, but I really cannot trust him again. No one knows, may be he has other recordings or re-recorded the same to the other tape and kept it just in case. I cannot believe that someone would use another person in such a bad/mean way. I trully believe what goes around comes around. I would never do something stupid again and trust another person that is illigal in US.

Are you all sure that if I would get an annulment, he would be deported?

There are no guarantees what the USCIS/ICE will do, they may or may not try to deport him.
The BIA has ruled that an annulment be treated as a divorce unless there is fraud or willful misrepresentation involved.
It will be very hard for you to prove the former or latter based on a phone bill that shows he was in touch with her by text message or called her on your honey moon. Your will not be able to show what the content of those text messages or phone call was. Like your lawyer said it is a stretch getting an annulment based on what you have and even if you do get one the USCIS may or may not deport your husband.

[MOM1211]

File for annulment based on fraud. If it's granted, he can't get his 10 year card and he will be deported after he goes to court, and he'll have a fraudulent marriage in his history, making it so any other woman he marries here he'll have to prove it was in good faith I imagine. I'm quite sure the courts have seen "married for a green card" cases and have granted annulments based on those cases. It's so common, it's sad.

[AzBlk]

Originally Posted by MOM1211

File for annulment based on fraud. If it's granted, he can't get his 10 year card and he will be deported after he goes to court, and he'll have a fraudulent marriage in his history, making it so any other woman he marries here he'll have to prove it was in good faith I imagine. I'm quite sure the courts have seen "married for a green card" cases and have granted annulments based on those cases. It's so common, it's sad.

And what proof will she have that he married her just for a green card? That he was texting his ex while still married to her? that he called his ex while on their honey moon? Good luck getting an annulment on those grounds let alone him getting deported. The only place this is going to lead is more heart ache , more time and money being wasted and an almost zero chance that she will achieve his deportation. She needs a lot more proof than she seems to have to prove her case.
And yes am sure the courts have also seen a lot of cases where jilted spouses accuse the other party of "getting married just for green card" when the marriage fails. I mean when you even think of it the OP stated that when she found out he was cheating on her in September, she told him "she would deport him" . the first thing she thought about was deport him, not how we save our marriage or counseling or even divorce.
Now I do not know exactly what happened in this case but in my opinion this is just a case of jilted lover becoming vindictive after the marriage is failing or has failed.
The best chance she had was she says she found him cheating in September but she forgave him and went to the interview with him.

[roxy2009]

AzBLK, seems to me you got your green card the same way this criminal did, is that why you are defending him so badly?

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by roxy2009

AzBLK, seems to me you got your green card the same way this criminal did, is that why you are defending him so badly?

The chances of getting an annulment is a valid topic for discussion. This isn't.

[MOM1211]

I don't know why you are so negative. Is it a crime to give someone positive reinforcment? every time I do, you come along with the negativity. Good lord, all I said is the judge must have seen a lot so basically she might have a chance. And he WOULD get deported. Some cases do not require proof of fraud. That's a fact. Also, it sounds like he did use her for the green card. If you don't like the way things work, then drop it. The fact is, annulments are filed all the time, she may or may not get one, with or without proof. The world and the law isn't perfect and doesn't always work fairly, like you seem to think it does, things happen without proof all the time. I know this from personal experience, that the law doesn't work fairly a lot of the time and things don't go the way they are suppose to. So stop trying to make her think she has no chance. The green card was based on a good faith marriage, people seem to totally forget about the marriage part and simply want to stay here.

Originally Posted by AzBlk

And what proof will she have that he married her just for a green card? That he was texting his ex while still married to her? that he called his ex while on their honey moon? Good luck getting an annulment on those grounds let alone him getting deported. The only place this is going to lead is more heart ache , more time and money being wasted and an almost zero chance that she will achieve his deportation. She needs a lot more proof than she seems to have to prove her case.
And yes am sure the courts have also seen a lot of cases where jilted spouses accuse the other party of "getting married just for green card" when the marriage fails. I mean when you even think of it the OP stated that when she found out he was cheating on her in September, she told him "she would deport him" . the first thing she thought about was deport him, not how we save our marriage or counseling or even divorce.
Now I do not know exactly what happened in this case but in my opinion this is just a case of jilted lover becoming vindictive after the marriage is failing or has failed.
The best chance she had was she says she found him cheating in September but she forgave him and went to the interview with him.

[AzBlk]

Originally Posted by roxy2009

AzBLK, seems to me you got your green card the same way this criminal did, is that why you are defending him so badly?

You are entitled to your opinion but resorting to personal attacks when you can not defend your positions in a debate is so low.

I do not think I am defending anyone just arguing the facts as presented by the OP. My position is that the OP will not succeed in getting an annulment let alone cause her soon to ex husband to be deported considering "evidence" that she has presented. Even her own attorney told her it was a stretch.

I know there are a lot of hard feelings when people believe they have been taken advantage of and/or a fraud has been perpetuated on them but being vindictive and vengeful does not make it any better and only leads to more bitterness especially when you can not achieve what you want. Letting your emotions dictate your thought processes can only lead to an unwillingness to accept hard facts the are unpleasant and followed by making bad decisions.

I have already said I do not know whether the OP's husband married her for immigration benefits only but going by what OP has said I believe she has failed to make conclusive case.

That being said I rest my case on this one. The OP will do what they want to do regardless of what you or I think. Just restrain your self from personal attacks on others simply because you may not agree with what they say, right or wrong.

[AzBlk]

Originally Posted by MOM1211

I don't know why you are so negative. Is it a crime to give someone positive reinforcment? every time I do, you come along with the negativity. Good lord, all I said is the judge must have seen a lot so basically she might have a chance. And he WOULD get deported. Some cases do not require proof of fraud. That's a fact. Also, it sounds like he did use her for the green card. If you don't like the way things work, then drop it. The fact is, annulments are filed all the time, she may or may not get one, with or without proof. The world and the law isn't perfect and doesn't always work fairly, like you seem to think it does, things happen without proof all the time. I know this from personal experience, that the law doesn't work fairly a lot of the time and things don't go the way they are suppose to. So stop trying to make her think she has no chance. The green card was based on a good faith marriage, people seem to totally forget about the marriage part and simply want to stay here.

My only interest in this thread was that the OP goes in with their eyes wide open. All I have seen is you and others giving her bad advice about how tape recording being illegal and making it seem like a slam dunk, get an annulment and problem solved. I have included BIA precedents and case law to back my arguments. There is two sides to every story and in you have only heard one side. So what would you tell the op's husband if he also started a thread on here stating his wife physically abused him and he reported her to the police, that he has a police report and tape recordings to prove she is/was verbally and emotionally abusive. That she is irrational and jealous about text messages he sent to a female friend ...blah.. blah..blah and now she is trying to get him deported because he will not put with it anymore ? Would you see things any differently or the because he is a man, he is 5'8 180 lbs and she is only 5'2 125 lbs and he is the immigrant therefore he must be a lair.

And oh yes there has to be PROOF of fraud for the courts to make a finding of fraud and grant the annulment. The courts will not grant her an annulment based on fraud simply because she thinks she was defrauded. Even her own attorney told her it was a stretch but like all good attorneys he will take the case and her money even if he thinks he wont win .
Now for him to get deported that BIA has ruled that there has to a finding of fraud and that such a finding “inherently involves a factual determination based on clear, unequivocal, and convincing evidence, that that respondent engaged in fraudulent conduct by entering a ‘for the purpose of procuring his…entry as an immigrant.’” Matter of Agdinaoay, 16 I&N Dec. 545, 547 (BIA 1978).


Basically what I am saying is that the OP needs a lot more proof to get her marriage annulled on the basis of fraud and her philandering husband deported than she has presented here.

[MOM1211]

Bad advice? Are you kidding me? It IS illegal in SOME states.

an example:

"It is a misdemeanor in Alaska to use an eavesdropping device to hear or record a conversation without the consent of at least one party to the conversation, or to disclose or publish information that one knows, or should know, was illegally obtained. Alaska Stat. § 42.20.310. A person who intercepts a private conversation cannot legally divulge or publish the information without consent of at least one party. Alaska Stat. § 42.20.300. The eavesdropping statute carries a fine of up to $1,000 and/or one year in jail, though suppression of illegally obtained information in court is the only civil penalty authorized. Alaska Stat. § 42.20.330."

Real Canadian showed you the site where it clearly states that in 12 states in normal circumstances, it is illegal and that it has now included in person taping in some of those states. So according to you, you are smarter than the person who did all the research and made the site? You're saying they're lying or wrong that it's illegal? It seems you're the type to go that far even though it clearly states it's illegal and some have gone to JAIL for it in some states. So no, it's not bad advice, I'd really love to know how you can say it's bad advice, since what I said is true. It clearly states it is illegal. Obviously you are not American, and have never dealt with the courts but seem to think you know better than everyone else about everything. Just because the law states something, doesn't mean it happens. It also says innocent until proven guilty, but we all know that's not true.

Just because they say there has to be proof of something, doesn't mean there needs to be or isn't enough in the judges eyes. it is up to the JUDGE. That's what appeals are for. I just finished one of two court cases with my ex husband where the judge made SURE there was proof on my end and he listed all of it, so there could be no appeal by him. Otherwise it leaves room for appeal. I never said she COULD get an annulment. I told her to TRY and she may or may not get one. So get your facts straight before you claim I give bad advice that she CAN get an annulment. I never in fact said that. I've dealt with court more than most people. I know how it works, and how it should work. They are rarely one in the same.

I also don't care what her husbands side is. He didn't ask for help, she did. So that's who I have to take at face value. We're not here to debate his and her sides. She is the one who came for advice, not him.

[AzBlk]

The OP has said she is from SC and that it is a single party consent state not that it would have mattered anyway. Immigration is federal and federal law allows single party tape recording so the op's husband could have used those recordings to defend themselves in immigration court or at a hearing. What I have said is simply that the OP will have an almost zero chance of getting an annulment or getting her philandering husband deported simply because he was cheating on her with ex girlfriend based on the evidence she has presented here. The law is very clear on what the standard is in these cases and in my opinion the op has not met that standard. What you are doing is egging her on .. yeah go get an annulment and if that fails then you can go for a divorce without thinking things through. Its like telling her to spend $2000[ attorney fees] or so on the lottery but add don't worry if you do not win, You will get paid next week.

And like I said before my only interest in this thread was to let the OP know what was likely to happen if she went ahead with this. The OP will do what they want to do regardless of you or I think so I think I will this thread a rest.

[MOM1211]

All I see is you being ignorant or else not reading what I've said, or taking it in some weird way it's not meant. You won't even admit you were wrong that it is illegal. I felt I had to defend myself because you claim I basically lied that it was illegal and clearly I was not wrong.

He's cheated on her twice I think she said, and she wants out of the marriage so um, why not tell her to get a divorce if not an annulment? I answered her questions truthfully. It's common bloody sense to tell someone who wants out of a marriage, to try an annulment if it was fraudulent and if not, get a divorce. I'm pretty sure you're the only person who thinks telling her to get a divorce is "egging" her on. This is why I don't post. I'm actually shocked someone would think telling her to get a divorce is considered egging someone on lol. I think I'll go back to never posting, this is bloody ridiculous.

[immigrant27]

I never said that I wanted to deport him. I actually in some way don't want him to be deported. I do want to get an annulment though because I don't believe that I deserved to be used. Also, he lived with his ex gf for several years prior marrying me. When I met him he told me that they broke up b/c she cheated on his with him best friend. I believed him. We dated for about 8 months and then he started telling me how it is bad now for illegals and he might be deported. BUt if I would give him papers then he could support our family better. In addition, when they were dating they purchased the house and there living in it together before the break up and meeting me. So even during an interview, officer knew her name (she is also illigal in the country). he straight up asked me how I can believe him. I told him that it is for me to find out. I guess now I did.

I repeat I do not want him to be deported. I was an annulment. I want to start my life over. I am in pain. Yes I am very upset and hurt about the situation. But I do not want to be evil and mess his life up, even though he messed up mine. Otherwise I would write a letter with my explanation to the officer who interviewed us and attach the phone bills. Mom was right when she said that law is not only black and white there are a lot of gray areas. A lot of time when ppl go to the court they take a chance because you just never know what the Judges believe to. I am sorry to say but a lot of white american men don't like hispanics for one reason or another, so may be just may be I would get one of those judges and will get my annulment. As soon as I get it and IF I get it, I would close the door to my past life and move on, if not then I would get my Legal Separation and will wait for a year to get a divorce.

Also, I do not believe that you AzBlk is paying my attorney's bills. So please don't worry about it. But just as a side note, he is my friend and is helping me for free.

[AzBlk]

Originally Posted by immigrant27

I never said that I wanted to deport him. I actually in some way don't want him to be deported. I do want to get an annulment though because I don't believe that I deserved to be used. Also, he lived with his ex gf for several years prior marrying me. When I met him he told me that they broke up b/c she cheated on his with him best friend. I believed him. We dated for about 8 months and then he started telling me how it is bad now for illegals and he might be deported. BUt if I would give him papers then he could support our family better. In addition, when they were dating they purchased the house and there living in it together before the break up and meeting me. So even during an interview, officer knew her name (she is also illigal in the country). he straight up asked me how I can believe him. I told him that it is for me to find out. I guess now I did.

I repeat I do not want him to be deported. I was an annulment. I want to start my life over. I am in pain. Yes I am very upset and hurt about the situation. But I do not want to be evil and mess his life up, even though he messed up mine. Otherwise I would write a letter with my explanation to the officer who interviewed us and attach the phone bills. Mom was right when she said that law is not only black and white there are a lot of gray areas. A lot of time when ppl go to the court they take a chance because you just never know what the Judges believe to. I am sorry to say but a lot of white american men don't like hispanics for one reason or another, so may be just may be I would get one of those judges and will get my annulment. As soon as I get it and IF I get it, I would close the door to my past life and move on, if not then I would get my Legal Separation and will wait for a year to get a divorce.

Also, I do not believe that you AzBlk is paying my attorney's bills. So please don't worry about it. But just as a side note, he is my friend and is helping me for free.

Ok I think I have put my two cents in on this thread. But I just need to clarify a few things.

In the first post of this thread you said:

Originally Posted by immigrant27

My husband and I got married in August 2, 2008. At the end of September, I found out that he is cheating on me with his ex girlfriend. I went crazy and told him that I am going to deport him. At that time, we filed petition but did not hear anything back for INS. He fough physically, I had a lot of brusing on me. I told him I would be filling for Order of Protection, but I did not mean it I just wanted to hurt him. However, the next day he went to the police and filled a police report stating that I was physically abusing him. I am 115 5'2 and he is 180 5'11. Then he would come home and would tape record me for hours where I was crying and telling him all the mean stuff while he was collected and nice. Then he asked me to give him another chance, and I did not want to. But he lost his job and I felt bad for him and decided to take him back. In February of this year, we went to an interview and he got his temporary green card. I found him again calling his ex. I finally left for good and thinking about filling for annulment on the gounds of fraud. He missrepresented his feeling towards me and fraudulently talked me into marrying him. However, he is telling me that I can do nothing about it and I am the one who has more to lose but he won't be in trouble for anything. He told me that he spoke to several attornies and they all told him and if I would do something like that I would be in trouble b/c before I married him I knew that he was illigal and I knew that he was in previous relationship. Please anyone help me. I just do not know what to do.

In post 15 you said

Originally Posted by immigrant27

Thank you all for your support. I live in "one-party consent" state, South Carolina. I went to an attorney yestarday, and he agreed to represent my case. I am filing for an annulment. I have his phone bills where he was constantly talking to her through text messages. He even called her while we were on our honeymoon . My attorney told me that it is a stratch but I just want to try. Also in my state, we have to be separated for 1 year before we can get a divorce. That would be soooo bad if I would have to be married to him for another year. As to the recordings, he gave me those recordings. I actually have tape recorder, but I really cannot trust him again. No one knows, may be he has other recordings or re-recorded the same to the other tape and kept it just in case. I cannot believe that someone would use another person in such a bad/mean way. I trully believe what goes around comes around. I would never do something stupid again and trust another person that is illigal in US.

Are you all sure that if I would get an annulment, he would be deported?

While you may not have explicitly said you wanted him deported. The implication seemed to be that you were looking for an annulment so he could be deported.

But I think that is all besides the point. I simply pointed out that you would have a very hard time getting an annulment because he cheated on you with ex and so it follows that the marriage was fraudulent. I never said I was paying you attorney bills and since I work very hard for my money I assumed you did too and therefore would not want to waste it on a fools errand, I did not know your attorney was doing this as a favor.

I will stop posting on this thread now because I do not think anything good can come of this. You are dead set on getting what you want to the point of hoping a racist white judge who dislikes Hispanics for one reason or another grants you an annulment not on the merits of your case but because he does not like Hispanics.

[BornintheRSA]

I'm glad you got a lawyer to help you.
Get an annulment or divorce and get the slime out of your life !!!!
He has emotionally abused you with those threats. It's sickening.
What happens to him after that is up to immigration.