GC holder and Study Medical in India

[pmpforgc]

As many of you know Medical education in India is 4 yrs instead of 8 yrs in US. so many peoples who are NRI try to study medical in India.

If my son who is GC holder, who will have spent 3 yrs after GC permanently in US, goes for Medical education in India, can he maintain his GC if he come back before 6 months and try to use re-entry permits, whenever he can.

Any one with experience can explain, how it will affect GC maintainance and Naturalization. Can he finish naturalization in two years after starting study in India (because by that time he would have finished 5 yrs in GC and continuous residence requirement of 3 yrs total)

thanks

[Jackolantern]

A long string of back-to-back trips can break continuous residence even if each trip is under 6 months. So don't count on traveling back to the US within every 6 months as a way to preserve eligibility for naturalization. He should expect to have to spend 4 or 5 years in the US after returning from India, in order to become a US citizen. Of course, he could still try to apply sooner and see what happens.

An Indian-trained doctor can't just work in the US right away. At least one or two years of hospital residency and/or medical study in the US will be required. Talk to other Indian doctors who have been through it.

[thankful]

It will be very hard for you to preserve your residence for naturalization purposes. You can PM me to discuss further if you are interested.

Make sure that the degree from India is accepted by licensing board(s) in the state(s) in which you plan to practice.

Also nothing personal (and I am sorry if this kicks up a storm here) but personally I will not see a doctor who is trained outside the United States.

[mmed]

Originally Posted by thankful

Also nothing personal (and I am sorry if this kicks up a storm here) but personally I will not see a doctor who is trained outside the United States.

All doctors practicing in US are trained in US (this is required for license) either they got their medical degree from US or from outside US

[schandrag]

Medical education in India is not 4 years after 12th grade, it is 51/2 years - 41/2 years plus one year of pre graduation internship. In practice it comes upto almost 6 years. There are 6 year integrated programs in the US but they are very competetive.

During these 51/2 years your child will have to live in India for most of the time and therefore will not be able to maintain permanent resident status.

[Mr Vertigo]

You mean to say 5 1/2, not 51/2. 51/2 = 25.5 years.

[VidhiVidhan]

I apologize for going off-topic here. But are there any threads where I could see pros & cons of doing medicine in India and returning to US? My kids are US citizens and I was wondering if it would be smarter to get them started early in medicine in India rather than have them spend 4 years doing unrelated stuff before going to medicine.

[schandrag]

As a graduate of an american school (USMG) one would have a greater chance of getting into a residency program at a prestigious institution and in a high demand specialty. The time saved is not really significant, maybe 2 years.
If one is an American Citizen and attended a foreign school, the general (untrue)perception in the medical community is that that person did not get into an American school and therefore went abroad(i.e was not good enough).

IMO it would be est to try to get into an American school first and if it is not possible, try abroad

[VidhiVidhan]

Originally Posted by schandrag

As a graduate of an american school (USMG) one would have a greater chance of getting into a residency program at a prestigious institution and in a high demand specialty. The time saved is not really significant, maybe 2 years.
If one is an American Citizen and attended a foreign school, the general (untrue)perception in the medical community is that that person did not get into an American school and therefore went abroad(i.e was not good enough).

IMO it would be est to try to get into an American school first and if it is not possible, try abroad

In India, one joins medical school after 12th grade whereas in US, (with some exceptions) one joins medical school only after 4 year college. Why should someone spend few 100 thousand dollars and 4 years studying something unrelated when alternatives are available?

Also issue of untrue perception, it would be if person went abroad after 4-year college. I don't think that perception will be there if one goes after 12th grade.

[mmed]

Originally Posted by VidhiVidhan

I apologize for going off-topic here. But are there any threads where I could see pros & cons of doing medicine in India and returning to US? My kids are US citizens and I was wondering if it would be smarter to get them started early in medicine in India rather than have them spend 4 years doing unrelated stuff before going to medicine.

Advantages
Cheaper (may be free)
• High quality education in most schools outside US (except Caribbean islands’ medical schools) compared to most US medical schools (Foreign graduate do better in practice in US compared to US graduates, with few exceptions here and there)
• 6 years pure medical education compared to almost 3 years only in US (theoretically 4 years which is not the case)

Disadvantages
• Less chance to get in good training program (some specialty almost restricted to US graduates with very high scores) (see why in next point)
• Different system of education overseas not built to meet the criteria for licensing exams in US (US graduates do better in exams compared to international graduates)

If we consider everything and from my own prospective and this is what I am going to advice my daughter to do; to get medical degree from overseas but engage in the US system by certain way or the other
• Studying many notes out there
• Answer many questions
• Enroll in any of the online or on site private classes to practice the way of the exams here to be familiar with the exam system in US

[thankful]

Originally Posted by mmed

All doctors practicing in US are trained in US (this is required for license) either they got their medical degree from US or from outside US

To amend my previous post to be more precise, I will not see a doctor who received his or her medical degree from a non- United States medical school. I have walked out of a medical office when I realized that the degree is from a Mexican school. And I know that I am not the only one person who would do that.

[VidhiVidhan]

I am from Mumbai so my statements will reflect what I have observed in Mumbai and may not be true for medical colleges elsewhere in India. Also, I am now in US for 13 years so some things may have changed.

Advantages:

1. Mumbai has 5 teaching public hospitals affiliated to Bombay University. These hospitals are free or almost free to general public. This brings whole lot of poor population to these hospitals thus giving the students tons of hands-on experience.
2. Due to above, most toppers want to join public hospitals.
3. Due to above, the best senior doctors in India want to be teachers in these colleges thus increasing their and hospital's prestige.

And the perpetual cycle continues. And US teaching medical schools must be very much aware of this.

[Mr Vertigo]

Originally Posted by mmed

Advantages
Cheaper (may be free)
• High quality education in most schools outside US (except Caribbean islands’ medical schools) compared to most US medical schools (Foreign graduate do better in practice in US compared to US graduates, with few exceptions here and there)

Do you have anything to back this up?

[schandrag]

I attended medical school in india and did my residency training in both India and the United States - in a university hospital setting and am now on the faculty of a medical school in the US. I would refrain from blanket statements about medical schools in and outside of the USA.
Yes the carribean schools that cater predominantly to Americans are of poor quality. However there are really good schools in the carribean too - where the locals study. Same for Mexico .

Even within the USA, Allopathic schools are generally more rigorous than the osteopathic ones ( there will always be exeptions).

It makes no sense to not see a physician based on where he/she obtained their medical degree. All physicians practising in the uSA have to complete a residency program in the USA.

[VidhiVidhan]

Originally Posted by VidhiVidhan

In India, one joins medical school after 12th grade whereas in US, (with some exceptions) one joins medical school only after 4 year college. Why should someone spend few 100 thousand dollars and 4 years studying something unrelated when alternatives are available?

Also issue of untrue perception, it would be if person went abroad after 4-year college. I don't think that perception will be there if one goes after 12th grade.

schandrag, you are just the person I wanted feedback from. Can you please try to answer my questions above?

Thanks in advance

[schandrag]

vidhi vidhan

In my personal opinion it would be a lot better for your kids to study medicine in the USA. Every specialty would be open, it is very hard for a foreign graduate to get into certain residency programs(dermatology, ENT for example). Moreover, at age 18 the kid may not know what they really want to do in life , after college the young adult is better poised to make career decisions.

This is my personal opinion, it may reflect my own bias.

[rpate34]

I know i am going off the topic but i always wanted to ask someone about this...
my sister is a green card holder, and she is doing medicine in india, she is done and doing her internship which is required by her school, so how would she able to come back here and practice in US. she used to come to united states every 6-7 months to keep her green card valid but she doesnt know what are the steps to get into US school??? if some one can help,, it would be really appreciated

[mmed]

Originally Posted by rpate34

I know i am going off the topic but i always wanted to ask someone about this...
my sister is a green card holder, and she is doing medicine in india, she is done and doing her internship which is required by her school, so how would she able to come back here and practice in US. she used to come to united states every 6-7 months to keep her green card valid but she doesnt know what are the steps to get into US school??? if some one can help,, it would be really appreciated

She can explore more www.forums.studentdoctor.net

[pmpforgc]

Originally Posted by rpate34

I know i am going off the topic but i always wanted to ask someone about this...
my sister is a green card holder, and she is doing medicine in india, she is done and doing her internship which is required by her school, so how would she able to come back here and practice in US. she used to come to united states every 6-7 months to keep her green card valid but she doesnt know what are the steps to get into US school??? if some one can help,, it would be really appreciated

Hi

I just want to know that your sister was GC holder from Day one she started Medical study? Or she got GC some time in the Middle of her medical shool study in India so she decided to complete there?

Also if started from Day-1 of his med school as GC holder and than maintained her GC over last five years just by coming here every 6/7 month for a week or two in US. If she able to do that without any problem for almost five year?

I would like to know above answer at that can help lot of us who are thinking of doing med school in India as GC holder.

Really appreciate your detailed answer to above questions.

[PHSESAaug]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

A long string of back-to-back trips can break continuous residence even if each trip is under 6 months. So don't count on traveling back to the US within every 6 months as a way to preserve eligibility for naturalization. He should expect to have to spend 4 or 5 years in the US after returning from India, in order to become a US citizen. Of course, he could still try to apply sooner and see what happens.

An Indian-trained doctor can't just work in the US right away. At least one or two years of hospital residency and/or medical study in the US will be required. Talk to other Indian doctors who have been through it.

Such is the case for anyone even the one's who studied in the US.

[VidhiVidhan]

Originally Posted by schandrag

In my personal opinion it would be a lot better for your kids to study medicine in the USA. Every specialty would be open, it is very hard for a foreign graduate to get into certain residency programs(dermatology, ENT for example).

I see your point.

Originally Posted by schandrag

at age 18 the kid may not know what they really want to do in life

I would like to disagree here. In India children know at very early age what they want to do. Two years before entrace exams, they are already ready for it. And this is true for any branch, may it be engineering or medicine. If you don't know at age 18 what to do in life then you will never know. Because you will get admission in something like BSc, BCom, BA and drift through the life wherever it takes you

[Mr Vertigo]

Originally Posted by VidhiVidhan

If you don't know at age 18 what to do in life then you will never know.

Yeah, right.

[GotPR?]

Originally Posted by VidhiVidhan

if it would be smarter to get them started early in medicine in India rather than have them spend 4 years doing unrelated stuff before going to medicine.

Those unrelated stuff sometimes makes the persons more educated ones, opposed to those who know nothing outside of their specialty.
You prolly misunderstand what education is.

[VidhiVidhan]

Originally Posted by Mr Vertigo

Yeah, right.

Mr Vertigo, are you from India? I would guess not.

Obviously, what I meant was if by 18 in India you don't know what branch to pursue and are not prepared for respective entrance exams, you are in all probability not going to get in the branch. Knowing at later stage that you want to be in medicine will be of no consequence. Students start preparing for these entrance exams upto 2-3 years in advance.

[VidhiVidhan]

Originally Posted by GotPR?

You prolly misunderstand what education is.

GotPR,

You don't know anything about me, my background or about country I come from. So I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about.

I do appreciate your feedback though.

[Jackolantern]

Originally Posted by PHSESAaug

Such is the case for anyone even the one's who studied in the US.

No. Training includes medical residency. American medical graduates can practice right away in the US after completing their residency in the US (provided they have also met whatever other local/state licensing requirements). But foreign medical graduates who did their residency outside the US still have to do residency again in the US.

[PHSESAaug]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

No. Training includes medical residency. American medical graduates can practice right away in the US after completing their residency in the US (provided they have also met whatever other local/state licensing requirements). But foreign medical graduates who did their residency outside the US still have to do residency again in the US.

Not true - it is not even called residency in India. In India you DON'T graduate from medical school if you don't complete your house surgeon training which is 12 - 18 months. House surgeon training is part of the medical education.

To practice in the US:

5.5 year medical school in India (4 yr classes + 1.5 year house surgeon training) + residency in the US (anywhere from 3 years to 6 years)

8 years of school (Pre-med + Med) + residency in the US (anywhere from 3 years to 6 years)

The path is exactly the same once you join a residency in the US. I know this from personal experience as my cousin went through this recently.

[usa2002]

Originally Posted by VidhiVidhan

I would like to disagree here. In India children know at very early age what they want to do. Two years before entrace exams, they are already ready for it. And this is true for any branch, may it be engineering or medicine. If you don't know at age 18 what to do in life then you will never know. Because you will get admission in something like BSc, BCom, BA and drift through the life wherever it takes you

This is a major difference between a developed country like the U.S or Canada and a poor (developing) nation like India. In India people tend to "grow up" quickly and figure out their life directions (often without really understanding what they are doing or just following parental wishes). In a wealthy country children can afford to take a more relaxed attitude toward life. So would-be doctors spend four years in college often studying the liberal arts. I have colleagues who studied history in college and fulfilled their premedical requirements on the side. My roommate doctor and I studied engineering in college before turning to medicine.

More and more premedical students in the United States do something else worthwhile between college graduation and medical school entry (either paid work or some kind of community service project). And frankly they are better people and better doctors because of their "gap-year" experiences. This is a luxury a developed country can bestow upon its citizens.

Hopefully one day a country that I care very much (India) can also provide this gift of time to its ambitious children.

[usa2002]

As someone who graduated from a U.S. medical school and finished a residency program at a top teaching hospital in Boston, I would like to offer a candid opinion. Medicine is a profession and people in my profession tend to be snobbish. To have a chance to compete in this field, you will need to have the best credentials possible. Now, while the United States is one of the most accepting societies in the world, ethnic miniorties still have a steeper climb than non-minorities. So it is especially important for a minority to have as much feathers in his/her cap as possible.

Barring very special circumstances, a person is out of his mind to forego medical school in the United States and go to school in India. Many people within and without the profession will see you as a second rate physician even before seeing your work (not everybody but enough in quantity to be a serious impediment to your career advancements).

So you need to look out for your best career interests. Be guided accordingly.

[Jackolantern]

Originally Posted by PHSESAaug

Not true - it is not even called residency in India. In India you DON'T graduate from medical school if you don't complete your house surgeon training which is 12 - 18 months. House surgeon training is part of the medical education.

In some other countries (like where I come from) you graduate from medical school, and then you do residency there. And that doesn't affect my point which still holds true; whatever your non-US medical training/study/residency/whateverYouCallIt is, you still can't directly practice in the US based on that ... you ultimately have to get some more training/residency in the US.