Do I need to keep my plastic GC with me?

[creack]

I've just received my GC today and I wonder if I've to keep it with me always.
I fear to lose it and the strip in metal at the back seems fragile.
Does a simple copy enough for every day life?

[nkm-oct23]

You don't need the GC for "daily life", just a copy will do. You must however have access to the actual card and must be able to produce it at a short notice. If you travel to border areas you might want to carry the actual card with you to avoid any inconvenience.

[Triple Citizen]

By law you have to. I carried mine for 35 months in my wallet. It is your call

Originally Posted by creack

I've just received my GC today and I wonder if I've to keep it with me always.

[Jackolantern]

http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=271584

[namedude]

Remember that since INS loves you - then you can return a favor and just have the GC with you. And you will get rewarded with a smile from an inspector at the airport. It is such a lovely organization. So you would not want to do it if anything for the lovely organization that helps monitor you until you get your citizenship?

====================
I am not a lawyer and this is not a legal advice.

[cafeconleche]

I don't carry it with me, because it's too valuable. Check out Jackolantern's link.

[Dedo]

Does the law state that you carry it? Yes, but I am not sure who and how someone would enforce that. If you get in trouble and they ask for it, then you can always produce it within an hour or two.

Should you carry it? Well that depends on you. Many on this board have carried it for years. I have spent enough time in this country where I don't look and sound like an illegal, and i highly doubt ICE is tracking me so I don't carry it with me. I think the chances of losing it are increased if you carry it on you. No one has ever asked me my immigration status in this country (except when applying for a job), and I doubt they will start now and ask me to produce proof. Unless traveling out of the country, I do not carry it (not even for domestic trips, and I travel frequently)

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Dedo

Does the law state that you carry it? Yes, but I am not sure who and how someone would enforce that. If you get in trouble and they ask for it, then you can always produce it within an hour or two.

The law is no different than the one that requires you to carry your Driver's License when you operate your car.

Do you carry your DL when you drive? Why? It's also an important document that you do not want to lose.

[nkm-oct23]

It all boils down to your level of comfort with risks. Do you want to strictly follow the letter of the law? Do you want to be prepared fo the unlikely event of being stopped by immigration officials? Are you willing to fork out a few hundred dollars and time spent in chasing paperwork for a replacement card if you lose your original card?

What if you lose your GC AND driver license, how will you prove your legal status to the DMV? (You can't get/renew/replace a license without proving legal status in most states)

Ask yourself these questions and then decide one way or another.

[Dedo]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

The law is no different than the one that requires you to carry your Driver's License when you operate your car.

Do you carry your DL when you drive? Why? It's also an important document that you do not want to lose.

Yes, and I'll tell you why and explain the difference between the two. A DL is a license to drive, so when I drive I carry it with me. It is also a recognized valid ID, so I carry it in case I get asked to show it (for a cc transaction, to sign in somewhere, etc).

How often am I asked for my GC? NEVER, unless I enter the US. Domestically it just has no use unless something specific to immigration happens, and for that I usually have enough time to get it out and copy it or whatever...

[cafeconleche]

And replacing a DL is MUCH cheaper than replacing a GC. It also takes a lot less time.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Dedo

Yes, and I'll tell you why and explain the difference between the two. A DL is a license to drive, so when I drive I carry it with me.

A GC is a license to be in the US, so when I am in the US I carry it with me. What's the difference?

How often am I asked for my GC? NEVER, unless I enter the US.

Interestingly enough, I have been asked by an official to show my GC more times than I have been asked to show my DL. Go figure.

[cafeconleche]

You've been asked to show your GC at a time when you normally wouldn't? That's interesting. Where was it?

[VidhiVidhan]

Originally Posted by cafeconleche

You've been asked to show your GC at a time when you normally wouldn't? That's interesting. Where was it?

Well, I was in bathroom one time and my wife knocked and asked where my green card was. Apparently some friends who had come over for dinner wanted to see what it looked like.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by cafeconleche

You've been asked to show your GC at a time when you normally wouldn't? That's interesting.

What's more interesting is that I never said such a thing.

I've been asked to show my GC by an official more times than I have been asked to show my DL. I have never been asked to show either at a time I normally wouldn't.

[Dedo]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

Interestingly enough, I have been asked by an official to show my GC more times than I have been asked to show my DL. Go figure.

Interesting...what kind of "official" is asking you for you GC (besides an immigration official)?

[TheRealCanadian]

Just an immigration official, and someone at the DMV and the SSA.

[Jackolantern]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

A GC is a license to be in the US, so when I am in the US I carry it with me. What's the difference?

Three important differences:

1. Everybody who drives is supposed to carry a license, whereas some 90% of the population (citizens) aren't required to carry any immigration documents. That makes it useless for detecting illegal immigrants on an ad-hoc basis, because if a person is randomly stopped the lack of a green card in the person's immediate possession doesn't give a clue as to whether they are illegal or not ... because 90% of the people you stop aren't going to have documents and aren't required to have them. So you're ultimately going to have to revert to other means like guessing based on how they look and speak, or taking their word for it, or looking up their information on a computer based on some other ID they might have on them.

If the driver's license rule had a similar condition where only a small subset of drivers have to carry a license (for example, only people who were born outside a given state have to carry a license when driving within the state) the requirement to carry the license on one's person would be just as useless for detecting unauthorized drivers. On the other hand, the requirement to carry immigration documents actually is useful in places where everybody is required to show them, like when arriving from overseas travel or applying for a Social Security card.

2. Driver's licenses are much quicker and cheaper to replace than green cards.

3. The requirement to carry around the green card is much more onerous and causes a much greater risk of loss or theft than carrying a driver's license, because the obligation to carry a license only applies to when one is actually driving; not when you're walking down the street or riding a train or being a passenger in a car or swimming at the beach. Whereas the green card rule applies to everywhere you go in the US and everything you do.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

That makes it useless for detecting illegal immigrants on an ad-hoc basis, because if a person is randomly stopped the lack of a green card in the person's immediate possession doesn't give a clue as to whether they are illegal or not

While that's true, it's a non sequitur. It doesn't make the requirement any more or less valid.

2. Driver's licenses are much quicker and cheaper to replace than green cards.

Another non sequitur. It may provide justification for not obeying the law, but does not speak to the validity of the requirement.

The requirement to carry around the green card is much more onerous and causes a much greater risk of loss or theft than carrying a driver's license, because the obligation to carry a license only applies to when one is actually driving; not when you're walking down the street or riding a train or being a passenger in a car or swimming at the beach.

Again a non sequitur - but I'd venture that 99% of the people walking down the street or riding in the train who have a DL carry it, whether they need it or not. Do you take your DL out of your wallet each time you go out, even if you're not driving??

It just boils down to the fact that people don't WANT to follow the law, yet they demand that USCIS do so.

[Dedo]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

Three important differences:

1. Everybody who drives is supposed to carry a license, whereas some 90% of the population (citizens) aren't required to carry any immigration documents. That makes it useless for detecting illegal immigrants on an ad-hoc basis, because if a person is randomly stopped the lack of a green card in the person's immediate possession doesn't give a clue as to whether they are illegal or not ... because 90% of the people you stop aren't going to have documents and aren't required to have them. So you're ultimately going to have to revert to other means like guessing based on how they look and speak, or taking their word for it, or looking up their information on a computer based on some other ID they might have on them.

If the driver's license rule had a similar condition where only a small subset of drivers have to carry a license (for example, only people who were born outside a given state have to carry a license when driving within the state) the requirement to carry the license on one's person would be just as useless for detecting unauthorized drivers. On the other hand, the requirement to carry immigration documents actually is useful in places where everybody is required to show them, like when arriving from overseas travel or applying for a Social Security card.

2. Driver's licenses are much quicker and cheaper to replace than green cards.

3. The requirement to carry around the green card is much more onerous and causes a much greater risk of loss or theft than carrying a driver's license, because the obligation to carry a license only applies to when one is actually driving; not when you're walking down the street or riding a train or being a passenger in a car or swimming at the beach. Whereas the green card rule applies to everywhere you go in the US and everything you do.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Mr Vertigo]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

It just boils down to the fact that people don't WANT to follow the law, yet they demand that USCIS do so.

No, people just don't want to lose their Green Cards and then deal with USCIS and endure all the pain that comes with that. It's a trade-off that people have made not to have to deal with USCIS unless absolutely necessary.

[nkm-oct23]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian
It just boils down to the fact that people don't WANT to follow the law, yet they demand that USCIS do so.

Do you follow all the laws all the time? Do you ALWAYS driver under the speed limit?

[Jackolantern]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

While that's true, it's a non sequitur. It doesn't make the requirement any more or less valid.

It makes the law a stupid and useless one. Whether green card holders carry the card everywhere won't make it any easier to detect or capture illegal immigrants, unless EVERYBODY including citizens has to carry proof of legal status.

Another non sequitur. It may provide justification for not obeying the law, but does not speak to the validity of the requirement.

You asked what's the difference. What I mentioned is a significant difference.

Again a non sequitur - but I'd venture that 99% of the people walking down the street or riding in the train who have a DL carry it, whether they need it or not. Do you take your DL out of your wallet each time you go out, even if you're not driving??

I don't carry my DL when I'm jogging around the block. And when I travel to cities where I'm not renting a car, I often leave the license locked up in the hotel safe or my friend/relative's house when I go somewhere.

[mh66ii]

Originally Posted by Triple Citizen

By law you have to. I carried mine for 35 months in my wallet. It is your call

That is not correct.law says it must be in your position at all the time not carrying with you at all the time. So technically if you lose it, it is not in your posotion other than that you don't have to carry it around with you.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

You asked what's the difference. What I mentioned is a significant difference.

I asked for a difference in the requirement, not a difference in how you decided whether to abide by the requirement or not.

Of course, if you want to go down this road, the requirement for a DL and proof of insurance is equally stupid. In the state of Georgia, my auto insurance card is NOT valid proof of insurance - only the state database is. I don't see why the DMV database couldn't be proof of licensure too, therefore maybe I should stop carrying around my DL when I drive.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by nkm-oct23

Do you follow all the laws all the time? Do you ALWAYS driver under the speed limit?

Would you prefer that USCIS didn't follow the laws when they were stupid and unreasonable?

[GotPR?]

USCIS should learn something from DMV to cover the lack of funding. It could be one big money making machine for them.:lol

[Jackolantern]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

Of course, if you want to go down this road, the requirement for a DL and proof of insurance is equally stupid. In the state of Georgia, my auto insurance card is NOT valid proof of insurance - only the state database is.

The requirement to carry insurance is mainly to facilitate the ability of other drivers to obtain your insurance information at the scene of an accident. Somebody who got hit shouldn't have to chase the other driver by voicemail for days to find out their insurance company and policy number. If you're not in accident the cops don't really need to see your insurance information, but asking for it anyway reinforces the requirement to carry it so that when you are in accident it would be available.

I don't see why the DMV database couldn't be proof of licensure too, therefore maybe I should stop carrying around my DL when I drive.

EVERYBODY who drives has to carry the license, not just a certain small subset of them. As I explained above, when the requirement applies to everybody it can be effective for detecting or deterring the unauthorized, because the lack of the document indicates a high probability of the person not being authorized. Whereas when the requirement only applies to a small subset, finding somebody not carrying the document doesn't help you to detect the unauthorized if 90% of the population aren't carrying the document and aren't required to.

I'll grant that if the police are always going to rely on a computer to look up your license information every time, the requirement could be relaxed to a requirement to carry a copy of your license or even a paper with your license number. However, they don't always have a computer; they often use a handheld device that can detect whether the license is a forgery but it won't look up anything in a database.

Similarly, the requirement for LPRs to show a green card at the port of entry would be useless for keeping out illegal aliens if citizens could get entry without showing anything. The only thing that achieves is keeping out LPRs who have lost their card. But once the requirement to show some proof of status is applied to everybody at the POE, it gains effectiveness.

[Triple Citizen]

We can agree to disagree on our interpretations.

Originally Posted by mh66ii

That is not correct.law says it must be in your position at all the time not carrying with you at all the time. So technically if you lose it, it is not in your posotion other than that you don't have to carry it around with you.

[mmed]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

It makes the law a stupid and useless one. Whether green card holders carry the card everywhere won't make it any easier to detect or capture illegal immigrants, unless EVERYBODY including citizens has to carry proof of legal status.

In the state I live, they issue DL for 10 years for citizens, 5 years only for GC holders. When I asked why, my GC is valid for 10 years, I was told to know citizens from GC holders. There are many ways in most states to know citizen from no citizen by documents in their possession. The point is: If you get caught and asked to show your GC what are you going to say: I am a citizen? This is big violation which may lead to voiding of the status; citizens do not carry proves of their status and I follow their steps? the immediate answer will be this is not your business; I do not carry GC not to lose it? This is an immigration violation.
I think it is not my business to make citizens carry documents to prove their citizenship or not, my business is to follow the law regarding my own status or request by many legal ways available to change the law. The law is stupid or genus again is not an excuse and will not waive me from the consequences.