Do you have to be married after spouse becomes a USC ?

[wifey246]

This is about a friend, but I'm not posting on her behalf. I'm just curious of the advise she received from her lawyer.

She got married last year when she had a student visa and her husband was still a permanent resident. Her husband got his citizenship a couple of months ago. They went to a lawyer for help in filing for adjustment of status. The lawyer adviced them to get married again and file for adjustment using the 2nd marriage certificate. So they flew to Vegas and got married and signed a contract with the lawyer which covers adjustment of status until removal of conditions.

Was that a good advice? I thought what matters is whether the spouse is a permanent resident or a USC when they file for adjustment, not when they get married.

[Call me Shrek]

My hunch is that the lawyers logic was, once F1 marries a PR, she exhibits an immigrant intent, thus invalidating her visa and putting her out of status.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by wifey246

I thought what matters is whether the spouse is a perminent resident or a USC when they file for adjustment, not when they get married.

Exactly. And if USCIS gets wind of the first marriage, they will be incredibly suspicious as to why they didn't disclose it. I would also be frightened of submitting the second marriage certificate, since the second marriage is not valid.

Originally Posted by Call me Shrek

My hunch is that the lawyers logic was, once F1 marries a PR, she exhibits an immigrant intent, thus invalidating her visa and putting her out of status.

That hunch is wrong.

[TNguy78]

Originally Posted by wifey246

This is about a friend, but I'm not posting on her behalf. I'm just curious of the advise she received from her lawyer.

She got married last year when she had a student visa and her husband was still a permanent resident. Her husband got his citizenship a couple of months ago. They went to a lawyer for help in filing for adjustment of status. The lawyer adviced them to get married again and file for adjustment using the 2nd marriage certificate. So they flew to Vegas and got married and signed a contract with the lawyer which covers adjustment of status until removal of conditions.

Was that a good advice? I thought what matters is whether the spouse is a perminent resident or a USC when they file for adjustment, not when they get married.

Not only does this lawyer not understand immigration, this lawyer doesn’t even understand family law. If you are currently married – you simply CAN’T LEGALLY get married again, whether it’s to the same person or not. What stupid advice.

You can renew your vows with the same person, but CAN’T legally marry the person again with a brand new marriage license and certificate. I’m curious how they got a new marriage license and certificate – to get the license, doesn’t it ask your current marital status? I wonder what they put there?

[wifey246]

Originally Posted by TNguy78

Not only does this lawyer not understand immigration, this lawyer doesn’t even understand family law. If you are currently married – you simply CAN’T LEGALLY get married again, whether it’s to the same person or not. What stupid advice.

You can renew your vows with the same person, but CAN’T legally marry the person again with a brand new marriage license and certificate. I’m curious how they got a new marriage license and certificate – to get the license, doesn’t it ask your current marital status? I wonder what they put there?

Don't know. But I just checked the Clark County Recorder website - there's 2 marriage certificates for them - dated 1 year apart.

Thanks, that confirms my suspicion. It's bad enough that they actually paid for a stupid advice, but they will be relying on this lawyer for the next 2 or 3 years. I tried to stop them from hiring one, but they said they felt that their situation is complicated. Oh well..

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by wifey246

I tried to stop them from hiring one, but they said they felt that their situation is complicated.

Thanks to the so-called attorney, their situation just got a lot more complicated.

If the attorney provided written advice to get married again and file using only the second marriage certificate, then that to me would be malpractice and they could fire him. I'd get a second opinion though.

[Call me Shrek]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

That hunch is wrong.

I am not saying that was a good bit of advice. I am just trying to guess the reasons WHY it was given.

[raevsky]

I would also be frightened of submitting the second marriage certificate, since the second marriage is not valid.

Not only it is not valid, it is also punishable by criminal law (entering into multiple marriage; or failure to disclose an existing marriage on the marriage license application).

[GotPR?]

Originally Posted by wifey246

but they will be relying on this lawyer for the next 2 or 3 years. I tried to stop them from hiring one, but they said they felt that their situation is complicated. Oh well..

WHy ? They can fire the lawyer.

[raevsky]

Firing the lawyer is not enough here.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by raevsky

Not only it is not valid, it is also punishable by criminal law (entering into multiple marriage; or failure to disclose an existing marriage on the marriage license application).

It's not bigamy AFAIK for the same couple to get married again to each other; the second marriage merely has no legal validity. What I'd be nervous about is passing off the second marriage as being legitimate to USCIS; it's clearly not.

[GotPR?]

Originally Posted by raevsky

Firing the lawyer is not enough here.

Going with that lawyer is obviously not a good move. I'd fire him/her first and find anther one to get further advice.

[wifey246]

Originally Posted by GotPR?

WHy ? They can fire the lawyer.

Because I'm not sure if they will listen to me. I told them to just do it themselves and that there are plenty of resources, like this forum, but they didn't listen. And because I am still in the middle of the process, I couldn't assure them that this is absolutely the right thing to do.

It's not bigamy AFAIK for the same couple to get married again to each other; the second marriage merely has no legal validity. What I'd be nervous about is passing off the second marriage as being legitimate to USCIS; it's clearly not.

I also didn't think it will be considered bigamy. My first thought was it was only unnecessary. But I think you're right, it may be considered invalid by the law and by USCIS.

I guess I have to give my friends more unsolicited advice. Unfortunately, there are times when concern can come across as meddling. And there's that risk that something may go wrong down the road and I get blamed for leading them to that path. And that risk may just be equivalent to the USCIS finding out that there's 2 marriage certificates.

[Triple Citizen]

One word....incompetent!!!

Originally Posted by wifey246

The lawyer adviced them to get married again and file for adjustment using the 2nd marriage certificate.

[TNguy78]

Originally Posted by Triple Citizen

One word....incompetent!!!

It ever borderlines on fraud - the lawyer purposely, intentionally and knowingly filed an AOS with a fraudulent marriage certificate. The second marriage never LEGALLY took place, therefore the second marriage certificate is not a legal certificate, therefore if the lawyer used it, then the lawyer purposely used a fraudulent document.

The lawyer could argue simple incompetence, but it’s hard to believe how the lawyer could have possibly thought that the second marriage certificate could have been considered valid. Since when can you legally get married when you are already married? In my county – when you file out the marriage license application you are asked for the number of previous marriages, the reason the previous marriage ended (only choices – Death, Divorce, Annulment) and it asks for the date the marriage ended.

And according to the Clark County Marriage license requirements, it says

Applicants must be a male and a female, at least 18 years of age, and not nearer of kin than second cousins or cousins of half blood, and not having a husband or wife living.

Since they current already had a "husband and wife living" – your friends also committed fraud.

The requirements also state:

This office is prohibited from issuing a new Marriage License to couples that are currently married.

Therefore they were not legally allowed to get a new marraige license and if they got one, they got it through fraud.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by TNguy78

Since they current already had a "husband and wife living" – your friends also committed fraud.

Certainly if they were married to someone else, then it would be fraud and bigamy. Getting married again to each other? It's not going to rise to that level. Even if it's illegal it's at best a misdemeanor and unlikely to be prosecuted. Filing an I-130/I-485 based on that invalid marriage certificate, however, is another matter altogether.

This is one of those cases where people are afraid of the consequences of an action (namely, marrying a PR while on F-1 status) so they try to hide it and in doing so commit an act that USCIS is far more concerned about. It reminds me of a cases where EB I-485 applicants who are unemployed for a few weeks try and get fake paystubs generated, without realizing that 245k would cover the break in employment. This is the same way - the first marriage is no problem if it occurred months after the F-1 holder entered the US.

[senowen]

This story doesn't pass the smell test in my opinion. It is incredibly hard to believe that any licensed attorney would advise these people to get a second marriage certificate and then use that certificate to apply for adjustment of status. I mean, it doesn't border on fraud, it is fraud. It just doesn't sound like something a real attorney, even a stupid attorney, would do.

This reminds me of a person who was here on an H1-B and married a US citizen. They hired an attorney to do the paperwork, just so they wouldn't have to deal with it. They filed all the appropriate documentation and only used her salary in the affidavit of support because she made enough herself. No problem. So everything goes smoothly, they get an interview date and the applicant asks his attorney what he should bring to the interview. The attorney says he should bring his wife, the originals of everything he submitted to the USCIS, and he should bring his own tax returns. The applicant says the tax returns were not asked for in the RFE and are not on the sheet provided by the USCIS. The attorney says yes, but normally the officer asks for the tax returns for the applicant even if the applicant did not use them in the affidavit of support. The applicant says, NO, it's not on the sheet, **** them, I'm not bringing it. Attorney asks, is there some problem, did you fail to file or something? Client says, no, no problem, but it doesn't ask for my tax returns, so I'm not bringing them. Attorney says, well its up to you, but I don't know what is going to happen. The day of the interview the applicant calls yelling and screaming that he received a second interview date 7 months later and that the IO was extremely rude and questioned him for quite awhile about his not bringing his own tax returns. Turns out, the applicant did have a problem with his tax returns, namely that they showed he was not working for his sponsor because his sponsor had stopped paying his salary. He was instead working elsewhere but had not transferred the H1-B. The attorney says, ok, we'll figure this out, don't worry, etc., etc. The next day the attorney gets another call from the applicant. This time the applicant sounds different, a little bit weird. The applicant starts yelling about contacting other attorneys who told him that he was supposed to bring his tax returns and why didn't the attorney tell him to bring the tax returns. When the attorney starts to talk, trying to remind the applicant that he had in fact told him to bring his tax returns, the client hangs up the phone and attorney never hears from him again. What do you think happened?

There is nothing easier than the blame game, and the OP's story smacks of the blame game. However, if I am wrong and this story is true, then these people should immediately stop talking to the attorney altogether and file a bar complaint against him or her. Advising people to commit fraud is a disbarrable offense and will be taken very seriously by the whatever state bar association to which the attorney belongs. If they paid this person any money they should sue in small claims court. And if they already filed paperwork using this second certificate, they should immediately notify the USCIS of what happened. They are going to have a lot of explaining to do, but it is going to be better than being charged with fraud.

[cafeconleche]

I'm also doubtful that an attorney would do this. I know very little of the law, but I do know that one REAL marriage is all you can have without a divorce or an annulment to warrant another marriage.

Anyway, it seems that the two were married when one had an F1 visa and the other was an LPR. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Status could have been adjusted easily. The F1 visa doesn't become invalid, does it?

[wifey246]

I had no idea that this issue is actually very serious. All I know is that this couple has been married for a while and has been waiting for the husband to get his citizenship. And I believe that the wife still holds a valid student visa and was never out of status. They asked me to refer a lawyer since they know that I am in an immigration process based on marriage to a USC. I told them we did not hire one, but we did a lot of research. They said they would feel more comfortable with professional assistance.

Next I heard from them is that they got married again based on the advice of their lawyer. But then, like the other poster's story about the H1B couple, my friends could've misinterpreted the advice or maybe they just made the decision on their own.

One thing I'm sure of is they really did get married a second time. I did a marriage search in Clark County Recorder's website. There were 2 records - almost a year apart. I am pretty sure they had no idea that it could be considered fraud - they even did it in the same county. Both names appear exactly the same.

We have established that, whether or not it's the lawyer's advice, they have committed fraud. It may not be a big deal since it doesn't harm anyone, except that they may present the 2nd marriage certificate to USCIS. If they have already done so, what are the chances that USCIS will find out about the first one? Name check, perhaps? If they haven't filed and later submits the first certificate, do they still have to tell USCIS about the 2nd one or do they have to do something to undo the 2nd marriage?

I really apologize, I said in my first post that I am not posting on my friends' behalf but was merely curious. I hate reading these kinds of posts because it is all hearsay. But I'm getting more information than I wanted, and I cannot knowingly let them be led blindly in the wrong direction.

[klik4it]

if a person on F1 marries a PR implies intent to immigrate, then wouldnt it also mean that any person marrying a USC shows intent to immigrate. duh
i dont think they had any problem in the first place to begin with.

[senowen]

Originally Posted by wifey246

One thing I'm sure of is they really did get married a second time. I did a marriage search in Clark County Recorder's website. There were 2 records - almost a year apart. I am pretty sure they had no idea that it could be considered fraud - they even did it in the same county. Both names appear exactly the same.

We have established that, whether or not it's the lawyer's advice, they have committed fraud. It may not be a big deal since it doesn't harm anyone, except that they may present the 2nd marriage certificate to USCIS. If they have already done so, what are the chances that USCIS will find out about the first one? Name check, perhaps? If they haven't filed and later submits the first certificate, do they still have to tell USCIS about the 2nd one or do they have to do something to undo the 2nd marriage?

I really don't know whether the 2nd marriage is fraud or not. But, sending the certificate to the USCIS and applying for a greencard based on that marriage date is fraud. I'm not going to speculate as to the chances of getting caught. As for whether they should or should not tell the USCIS, I think they now need a competent lawyer to give them that kind of advice.

I have never heard of anything like this before. It must be exceptionally rare. But I do know that when a person is already married and then files for another marriage, the second marriage is generally automatically void in the eyes of the law. What I don't know is if there is a formal way to have the second marriage formally declared void in Nevada. I mean, there must a certain number of people who got drunk and got "married" in Vegas even though they were already married to someone else. I would imagine there is some kind of process for this kind of thing. But, if you get married to the same person twice, I don't know what a person can do. I mean, if you have the second marriage annulled, what effect does that have on the first marriage to the same person? I don't know. These questions are far beyond my competence.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by senowen

I really don't know whether the 2nd marriage is fraud or not. But, sending the certificate to the USCIS and applying for a greencard based on that marriage date is fraud.

I would agree. Sending the second marriage certificate to USCIS is certainly misrepresentation of a material fact (the date of the marriage) and therefore fraud. Whether the second marriage itself is fraudulent is different - it's clear that both parties to the marriage were aware of the fact that they were legally married to each other, so no deceit has occurred. Now they may have made a false statement when applying for the license, but again I really question whether the state/county has been defrauded.

What I don't know is if there is a formal way to have the second marriage formally declared void in Nevada. I mean, there must a certain number of people who got drunk and got "married" in Vegas even though they were already married to someone else.

You can get an annulment for something where you were drunk. You don't need one if you're already married to someone else, since you do not need to annul a marriage that was never legal in the first place. I seriously question whether there is anything to be done in this case. The second marriage has no validity.

Again, I don't really think there's a problem with the existence of the second marriage license and ceremony. The problem is attempting to pass it off to USCIS as being legally valid.