Benefits for older parents who never worked in the US?

[nati309]

Hi,

My parents are immigrating to the US as relatives to a US citizen. They are older and cannot earn enough work credits to qualify for Social Security and Medicare the standard way. Are there any benefits they can qualify for to support them financially if they don't work?

thank you in advance! Any information is appreciated!

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by nati309

Are there any benefits they can qualify for to support them financially if they don't work?

Sure, it's called your income.

[susan ward]

Originally Posted by nati309

Hi,

My parents are immigrating to the US as relatives to a US citizen. They are older and cannot earn enough work credits to qualify for Social Security and Medicare the standard way. Are there any benefits they can qualify for to support them financially if they don't work?

thank you in advance! Any information is appreciated!

You will have to file an affidavid of support of them ! So hope you have a few pennies as your the ones who will have to support them

[thankful]

Federal benefits are not available. State benefits may be available in some states.

[nati309]

thanks, thankful. I was obviously trying to figure out if there is anything OTHER than my income... doesn't sounds like there is much, even when they become citizens...

[thankful]

Originally Posted by nati309

thanks, thankful. I was obviously trying to figure out if there is anything OTHER than my income... doesn't sounds like there is much, even when they become citizens...

Actually when they do become citizens it is a different story. Citizens with limited income and resources are entitled to many things, like food stamp, SSI, Medicaid and so on. The problem is that under the 1996 welfare law green card holders cannot get most of these benefits.

[wombat]

Originally Posted by nati309

thanks, thankful. I was obviously trying to figure out if there is anything OTHER than my income... doesn't sounds like there is much, even when they become citizens...

My father in law( immigrated last August with GC) gets $300/month in state aid, plus bare-bones version of Medicaid.

He is also eligible for subsidized housing for people over 60.

The state is Massachusetts.

[OK-Boy]

When they turn into 65; they are eligible for Medicaid. It doesn't really matter whether they did work and/or how much do you make.

[wombat]

Originally Posted by OK-Boy

When they turn into 65; they are eligible for Medicaid. It doesn't really matter whether they did work and/or how much do you make.

It is not completely right - in our state (Massachusetts) there are several versions of Medicaid, and GC holders are only eligible for much more limited versions than citizens.

[karl65]

Originally Posted by wombat

It is not completely right - in our state (Massachusetts) there are several versions of Medicaid, and GC holders are only eligible for much more limited versions than citizens.

Same here in Illinois. If you get GC and you are over 65 you can't get medicare... Or at least not regular....

[wombat]

Originally Posted by karl65

Same here in Illinois. If you get GC and you are over 65 you can't get medicare... Or at least not regular....

Let's keep things straight - MedicaRE and MedicaID are two completely different programs.

In order to get MedicaRE, one has to be 65 AND has to have been working in the US for 40 calendar quarters. If you have not worked for 40 quarters , you are not eligible for MedicaRE regardless of your immigration status.

MedicaID is generally for low-income people of any age.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by OK-Boy

When they turn into 65; they are eligible for Medicaid. It doesn't really matter whether they did work and/or how much do you make.

No. You can get Medicaid only if you are poor and many states have immigration-related requirements too.

[thankful]

Medicare is a program run by the federal government for people who are older than 65. It is an entitlement program and is not a form of welfare. Take a look at your paychecks--1.45% of your gross pay is gone to fund the program. You must have paid this tax for 10 years before you are eligible.

Medicaid is a welfare program. They are funded from income taxes to aid people with little income and resources. It is run by both the federal government and the states. So each state sets its own eligibility rules.

For Medicaid states can usually choose to give or not give aid to non-citizens. So determining if you are eligible means that you have to look up state laws. However if you (green card holder) have paid 10 years of taxes then you are by (federal) law eligible even if you are not a citizen. Beyond that, the usual rule of thumb is that the more liberal the state (in terms of politics) the more generous it is toward noncitizens.

I know that this is complicated. Let me know if I confused anybody.

[wombat]

Originally Posted by thankful

For Medicaid states can usually choose to give or not give aid to non-citizens. So determining if you are eligible means that you have to look up state laws. However if you (green card holder) have paid 10 years of taxes then you are by (federal) law eligible even if you are not a citizen.

You certainly confused me here. 10 years of paying taxes makes one eligible for Medicare, not Medicaid.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by wombat

You certainly confused me here. 10 years of paying taxes makes one eligible for Medicare, not Medicaid.

Yes 10 years of tax payment make you eligible for Medicare. But they also put you in the same position as a citizen for Medicaid eligibility. If your income and assets are low enough make you eligible then you can get Medicaid. If you have less than 10 years of tax payment, a state can deny a noncitizen medicaid no matter how poor you are.


Example: A immigrated at the age of 35 and spend the next ten years working and paying taxes. At age 47 the person became really sick. He is not old enough for Medicare obviously. He has no money to pay his medical bills. Then a state must offer Medicaid help to that person even though he is not a citizen because of the 10+ years of tax payment. If he does not have that 10 years of tax payment then a state can refuse to help him (I know it is cruel but they can do that)

Both examples have come up in real life.

Count yourself lucky that you are in MA.

Does that help?

[wombat]

Originally Posted by thankful

Does that help?

Yes, it does. Is there some federal statute that dictates Medicaid eligibility of non-citizens who paid into SS pool for ten years?

[pmpforgc]

In terms of Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security youhave to work ten yrs before become eligible.

Many of US work several yrs before becoming LPR (green card holder) and pay federal and state taxes ( but not Social security and medicare etc. as I think)

SO my question is does those yrs of services before becoming LPR counts towards 10 yr period or not?

Also for some of the benefits, they also combine work of spouse, can some one high light for what type of SS, medicare or Medicaid benefits they combine work quarters of spouse, to meet 10 yr requirements.?

Originally Posted by wombat

Yes, it does. Is there some federal statute that dictates Medicaid eligibility of non-citizens who paid into SS pool for ten years?

[Jackolantern]

I don't know about Medicare or Medicaid, but I know that the years contributing to SS before obtaining a green card count towards your SS eligibility. However, depending on your country of citizenship, you may not be able to collect SS unless you get at least a green card at some point.

[StonedAnt]

I don't know about the 10 years bit, but it is my understanding that after you pay a certain amount of taxes in your employed life, you qualify for Medicare regardless of if you are a PR or not. Now, just because you qualify does not mean that you can claim it, for that they may ask for PR or citizenship evidence.

I personally get letters every year from the Social Security Administration office that shows how much Medicare I currently qualify for with the amount of taxes I have paid. BTW, I am not a PR yet, still waiting.

Again, I might be completely off the track here, but that is how my understanding goes for now.


Stoned!

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by StonedAnt

I don't know about the 10 years bit, but it is my understanding that after you pay a certain amount of taxes in your employed life, you qualify for Medicare regardless of if you are a PR or not.

Medicare and SS eligibility has nothing to do with taxes, and everything to do with FICA contributions which are levied on US earned income only. You need to have contributed for 40 quarters to be eligible. Contributions made in another country with whom the US has a totalization treaty may count towards the 40 quarters for SS, but not Medicare.

Additionally, Medicare eligibility will in practice depend on permanent residency, since you need to be in the US for eligibility. I am exceptionally skeptical that Medicare will pay a foreign provider.

[pmpforgc]

Hi

Thanks every one for their input. I think there are two aspect of contribution we are talking about. I am not talking any thing about contributions in the foreign country in any way. Also we have to assume that at the time of claim he/she is Permanent Resident/ Citizen

One contribution is TAXES ( FEDERAL and STATE) which every one who is employed pays, irresepctive of their immigration and citizenship status.

Other is Social Security and Medicare etc. which you can not pay (even if you wish) unless you are in Country for atleast five year (means resident for tax purpose, that is what I think) or you are LPR or you are Citizen.I think you dont meet FICA requirements for contribution unless you are resident for the tax purpose.

Now keeping all above in the view I have following questions

(1) Does the years (or quarters) during you paid Taxes (federal and State) but did not paid ( because you can not legally pay) Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, count as meeting 10 yrs (40 quarters) requirements to Claim Social Security benefits.

(2) Does the years (or quarters) during you paid Taxes (federal and State) but did not paid ( because you can not legally pay) Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, count as meeting 10 yrs (40 quarters) requirements to Claim Medicare benefits

(3)Does the years (or quarters) during you paid Taxes (federal and State) but did not paid ( because you can not legally pay) Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, count as meeting 10 yrs (40 quarters) requirements to Claim Medicaid benefits.

Also I see spouse's social security contribution columns also in the Social Secutiry Statement that I received first time last year. So my question is

(4) Does they combine spouse's work quarters (contributions) for some of the purpose of calculating meeting requirements for the some of the SS,MEDICARE and MEDICAID benefits/Claims? If yes for what benefit they combine those contributions?

Thanks again . I think above questions may be important as many of us contributed as NON-Immigrant to the US FEDERAL TAXES. sO it is usefull to know waether those years are counted to meets SS, Medicare, Medicaid requiremtents ONCE YOU BECOME PERMANENT RESIDENT AND/OR CITIZEN

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by pmpforgc

Other is Social Security and Medicare etc. which you can not pay (even if you wish) unless you are in Country for atleast five year (means resident for tax purpose

I don't know where you got this idea. You don't need to be in the US for five years to pay FICA, nor do you need to be here for 5 years to become a resident for tax purposes. I became a US resident for tax purposes the day I entered the US ten years ago.

You are over-complicating things. If you paid FICA, then that counts towards the 40 quarters - forget whether you paid federal/state taxes or not; that is irrelevant. Odds are, unless you were here on an F, J, M or L visa, you paid FICA.

[pmpforgc]

For candian citizen you might be true.

But as I entered as student (f-1) (from India) I was not considered resident for tax purpose. So SS and Medicare Medicaid were not deducted till I complted 5 yrs and I was on OPT by that time.

Hope this helps you understand that FICA can not be paid by resident of some countires and they are not considered resident for tax purpose till they complete 5 yrs.

Can you now give views on my questions.

[TheRealCanadian]

Originally Posted by pmpforgc

For candian citizen you might be true.

It has nothing to do with citizenship. As I pointed out, if you were in F status then you by definition cannot be considered a tax resident and do not pay FICA, but if you enter in a different status (like H) then you pay FICA from day one. Nothing to do with citizenship or five years. There are other cases (some L holders) where you can be a tax resident and not pay FICA.

And in answer to your question, if you did not pay FICA, then that time does not count towards the 40 quarters for SS/Medicare. End of story. Medicaid is state-defined and means-tested, and varies by state.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by wombat

Yes, it does. Is there some federal statute that dictates Medicaid eligibility of non-citizens who paid into SS pool for ten years?

Yes, federal law provides that a green card holder (not just any non-citizen, green card holder only) who has paid SS/Mediciare taxes for ten years must be treated on the same basis as citizens for Medicaid eligibility (and many other benefits too). The ten year period apparently includes the time when you were not yet a green card holder but they will take out any time period when you received public assistance.

One wrinkle is that states can choose to deny Medicaid eligibility within the first five years of the person's obtaining his green card even if the 10 year rule has been satisfied.

Congress created a number of very complicated rules.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by pmpforgc

Many of US work several yrs before becoming LPR (green card holder) and pay federal and state taxes ( but not Social security and medicare etc. as I think)

You pay social security taxes even before you are a green card holder (for example H1B visa). There are limited exceptions. One is when you are on a student visa.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by pmpforgc

Also for some of the benefits, they also combine work of spouse, can some one high light for what type of SS, medicare or Medicaid benefits they combine work quarters of spouse, to meet 10 yr requirements.?

You can claim the SS/Medicare taxes paid by your spouse (you two must be married at the time the tax was paid) and your parent (when you were under 18) for purposes of the 10 year rule for getting public assistance.


For social security benefits the rules are different. If your spouse becomes eligible for social security benefit you can receive benefit based on her record. You will get half of the amount she will get.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

I don't know about Medicare or Medicaid, but I know that the years contributing to SS before obtaining a green card count towards your SS eligibility. However, depending on your country of citizenship, you may not be able to collect SS unless you get at least a green card at some point.

The law is quite clear (since 1996) that to receive SS benefits in the US you must have a lawful immigration status.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian

It has nothing to do with citizenship. As I pointed out, if you were in F status then you by definition cannot be considered a tax resident and do not pay FICA, but if you enter in a different status (like H) then you pay FICA from day one. Nothing to do with citizenship or five years. There are other cases (some L holders) where you can be a tax resident and not pay FICA.

And in answer to your question, if you did not pay FICA, then that time does not count towards the 40 quarters for SS/Medicare. End of story. Medicaid is state-defined and means-tested, and varies by state.

This is right on the money.

[thankful]

Originally Posted by pmpforgc

For candian citizen you might be true.

But as I entered as student (f-1) (from India) I was not considered resident for tax purpose. So SS and Medicare Medicaid were not deducted till I complted 5 yrs and I was on OPT by that time.

Hope this helps you understand that FICA can not be paid by resident of some countires and they are not considered resident for tax purpose till they complete 5 yrs.

Can you now give views on my questions.

You are partially correct. The general rule is that aliens are subject to FICA taxes like everyone else. The law then has an exception for the following categories of visa:

A-visas. Employees of foreign governments are exempt on salaries paid to them in their official capacities as foreign government employees.
The exemption does not automatically apply to servants of employees of such foreign governments.
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children of A nonimmigrants who are employed in the United States by anyone other than a foreign government.
D-visas. Crew members of a ship or aircraft may be exempt if the vessel is a foreign vessel and the employer is a foreign employer, or if the services are performed outside of the United States
Crew members of an American vessel or aircraft who perform services within the United States ARE subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes.
Crew members of an American vessel or aircraft who perform services outside the United States ARE subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes if:
the employee signed on the vessel or aircraft in the United States; or
the employee signed on the vessel or vessel outside the United States but the vessel or aircraft touches a U.S. port while he is employed thereon.
F-visas, J-visas, M-visas, Q-visas. Nonresident Alien students, scholars, professors, teachers, trainees, researchers, physicians, au pairs, summer camp workers, and other aliens temporarily present in the United States in F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrant status are exempt on wages paid to them for services performed within the United States as long as such services are allowed by USCIS for these nonimmigrant statuses, and such services are performed to carry out the purposes for which such visas were issued to them.
Exempt Employment includes:
On-campus student employment up to 20 hours a week (40 hrs during summer vacations)
Off-campus student employment allowed by USCIS.
Practical Training student employment on or off campus.
Employment as professor, teacher or researcher.
Employment as a physician, au pair, or summer camp worker
Limitations on exemption:
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children in F-2, J-2, M-2, or Q-3 nonimmigrant status.
The exemption does not apply to employment not allowed by USCIS or to employment not closely connected to the purpose for which the visa was issued.
The exemption does not apply to F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrants who change to an immigration status which is not exempt or to a special protected status.
The exemption does not apply to F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrants who become resident aliens.
G-visas. Employees of international organizations are exempt on wages paid to them for services performed within the United States by employees of such organizations.
The exemption does not automatically apply to servants of employees of such international organizations.
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children of G nonimmigrants who are employed in the United States by anyone other than an international organization.
H-visas. Certain nonimmigrants in H-2 and H-2A status are exempt as follows:
An H-2 nonimmigrant who is a resident of the Philippines and who performs services in Guam;
An H-2A nonimmigrant admitted into United States temporarily to do agricultural labor.

But the law then takes away that exemption from students who have been here for more than five years.

so yes your experience was valid but do not generalize from that to include all aliens!!!