Been waiting 2 1/2 years for removal of condition - help please!

[DennisT]

Hello,
first of all thanks for this great forum and everyone who's involved with it.
I hope I can get some input here from people who are knowledgeable about the USCIS or possibly had similar experiences like me. So this is my case:
I'm a conditional permanent resident based on marriage to a USC and I got my receipt for the I-751 on July 22, 2003. Til this day there has been no decision which is VERY frustrating. Bascially what happened is that at the time the extension of my GC had expired (August 2004) I tried contacting the Vermont Service Center (where my I-751 was processing) several times and it was not until after I had moved from Virginia Beach, Virginia to Little Rock, Arkansas (to share a residence with my parents in law) that I finally received a reply in January 2005. The note was from the Center Director telling me that my file was in Norfolk, VA awaiting interview scheduling and since I had moved I need to make an appointment with the Phoenix center (???) to have my file transfered there and complete the interview process. You can imagine that I was a little shocked at first as Phoenix was MANY miles away. Well, after I called the hotline they clarified with me that Phoenix was a mistake and that I need to get my file transfered to Memphis. Ok - so in March 2005 I went up there, initiated my transfer and received a card for temporary evidence of lawful admission for conditional residence. (I didn't have my passport with me) That card didn't do me any good though I was assured it would - I couldn't even open a bank account as no bank accepted this type of ID! Luckily I was able to get an Arkansas State ID through my expired GC (!) so I was able to function in the system. A year later (now that my Temporary Card is expiring) I finally receive a note from the Memphis office about the status of my case. I almost fell out of my chair. It states that "following information is required before a decision on your application may be considered: Evidence of a common residence and shared life with your spouse, joint tax returns (from 2002 on), joint banking accounts," etc, etc. You get the drift! It also says in bold letters: "please include evidence that spans the time you were first married up until the present". They give me 90 days to respond or my application will be denied. I'm very upset about this treatment because can anybody tell me why I basically need to file my I-751 all over again with them?? When I originally filed in 2003 all evidence was included as required: tax returns (including 2002!!), 2 signed affidavits, joint banking accounts, lease agreements etc etc. Shouldn't they make a decision based on the original filing like they are supposed to (what else is the filing fee good for?) and not punish me for their incompetence? I mean it is not my fault that it takes too long for them to process applications - why do I need to pay for that with more hassle? Why can't they just make a decision based on what they already have and why am I being told that I'm awaiting interview scheduling but instead need to file more evidence?? Why not have me bring it to the interview if it's really necessary? Is it actually common at all to come to a second interview in the PR-process?? What's going on? I feel like I'm being mistreated by the USCIS. What also confuses me is that when me and my wife had our original interview in Norfolk it went so smooth and the officer concluded very soon that our marriage was bona fide (rightly so!) and when we commented about the quickness I remember him saying "I'm just trying to help you guys 2 years down the road". Does anybody have an idea what he meant by that? Because 2 years later, when I filed I-751, it has been nothing but trouble ever since! Even the most basic things like filing for changes of adress seemed to not process with them! (When I inquired on the hotline one day it turned out that they still had my old adress from 2 moves prior!! And yes I always did AR-11!) So I really dont understand...what do you guys think? Any similar experiences? Is this common with the USCIS? Is it possible that they lost evidence from my file during the transfer or even previously? How can I find out? Would hiring a lawyer help at all in such a case or would that just be a waste of money? Would filing a complaint do anything?? And what do you guys think they mean by "before a decision on your application may be considered"? Would this be the ultimate deicision (removal of my condition) or maybe just a decision whether they will call me for an interview? Because I do not feel like gathering and filing all this stuff just to be told half a year later that I need to appear to an interview, please bring following information with you etc etc! So please, if you guys can answer any of these questions for me and can give me any insights as to what might be going on and what would be a wise course of action I would tremendously appreciate it! I want this thing over with!! Thanks!
Dennis

[NJGIRL]

You have not been mistreated by BCIS from my understanding. When you file to remove condition from your green card, you have to established with supporting documents that within the two years you were still married to the petitioner. Documents like lease with both names, bills, etc. The reason why this is so is because at the time of initial interview for the Card, applicants would not have been in a position to show those common documents because of the duration of their marriage which is mostly 6months prior to the interview. To get this over with is to send in the documents that they requested. Infact, in most cases whilst those documents are recieved you will not be call to attend the second interview with the petitioner, you (beneficiary) would have to schedule an infopass to get the permanent stamp in your passport at your DO. That's what happen to a friend of mine, she went in to get her passport stamped. They didn't required the husband to be there because they were able to prove beyond reasonable doubt their marriage was bonafide.
Also, you will normally hear that one has to apply for the removal of condition with all supporting documents two months before the expiration of the Temporary green card. That doesn't imply that you will get the conditions removed soon after filing the application. It is now taking an average of four years after the initial filing to adjust one's status before you can expect to get the permanent green card. This has happen to people I know and I have friends who have been married for over 3 yrs now, have apply to remove conditions and still haven't been call to get their passport stamped or recieve the GC in the mail. So, when you send all the documents in, expect to wait another yr or so before you get the PGC.
Also, Lawyers do advise people not to move whilst they have application pending at BCIS. This creates a lot of problem because files has to be transfer to DO serving your area of residence and sometimes it is pain the neck. In my opinion, the only move that will not affect the applicant is moving to an area wherein your DO will not be changed. In that case, your files dont have to be transfer because you are still dealing with the same DO. I hope this helps.

[cherr1980]

I don't get your dates, you received the receipt of your removal on July 2003 or 2004? You said that your card expired on Aug 2004. Can you clarify please?
Yes, it has been registered that "specially" when people moves the risk to get things lost are higher.
And yes, when you remove the conditions if they consider that you need to send more information, documents even you already supplied it you must do it. And yes, you can be notify to appear for another interview that is pretty common and is a normal process and has nothing to do if they believe or not that your marriage is bona fide is part of the process.
An RFE (request for further evidence) asked you already and you have a timeline to do so I will suggest that do it as fast as you can. If you don't reply it your green card and its extension will be denied.
Good luck,

[ari4u]

Originally Posted by DennisT

Hello,
first of all thanks for this great forum and everyone who's involved with it.
I hope I can get some input here from people who are knowledgeable about the USCIS or possibly had similar experiences like me. So this is my case:
I'm a conditional permanent resident based on marriage to a USC and I got my receipt for the I-751 on July 22, 2003. Til this day there has been no decision which is VERY frustrating. Bascially what happened is that at the time the extension of my GC had expired (August 2004) I tried contacting the Vermont Service Center (where my I-751 was processing) several times and it was not until after I had moved from Virginia Beach, Virginia to Little Rock, Arkansas (to share a residence with my parents in law) that I finally received a reply in January 2005. The note was from the Center Director telling me that my file was in Norfolk, VA awaiting interview scheduling and since I had moved I need to make an appointment with the Phoenix center (???) to have my file transfered there and complete the interview process. You can imagine that I was a little shocked at first as Phoenix was MANY miles away. Well, after I called the hotline they clarified with me that Phoenix was a mistake and that I need to get my file transfered to Memphis. Ok - so in March 2005 I went up there, initiated my transfer and received a card for temporary evidence of lawful admission for conditional residence. (I didn't have my passport with me) That card didn't do me any good though I was assured it would - I couldn't even open a bank account as no bank accepted this type of ID! Luckily I was able to get an Arkansas State ID through my expired GC (!) so I was able to function in the system. A year later (now that my Temporary Card is expiring) I finally receive a note from the Memphis office about the status of my case. I almost fell out of my chair. It states that "following information is required before a decision on your application may be considered: Evidence of a common residence and shared life with your spouse, joint tax returns (from 2002 on), joint banking accounts," etc, etc. You get the drift! It also says in bold letters: "please include evidence that spans the time you were first married up until the present". They give me 90 days to respond or my application will be denied. I'm very upset about this treatment because can anybody tell me why I basically need to file my I-751 all over again with them?? When I originally filed in 2003 all evidence was included as required: tax returns (including 2002!!), 2 signed affidavits, joint banking accounts, lease agreements etc etc. Shouldn't they make a decision based on the original filing like they are supposed to (what else is the filing fee good for?) and not punish me for their incompetence? I mean it is not my fault that it takes too long for them to process applications - why do I need to pay for that with more hassle? Why can't they just make a decision based on what they already have and why am I being told that I'm awaiting interview scheduling but instead need to file more evidence?? Why not have me bring it to the interview if it's really necessary? Is it actually common at all to come to a second interview in the PR-process?? What's going on? I feel like I'm being mistreated by the USCIS. What also confuses me is that when me and my wife had our original interview in Norfolk it went so smooth and the officer concluded very soon that our marriage was bona fide (rightly so!) and when we commented about the quickness I remember him saying "I'm just trying to help you guys 2 years down the road". Does anybody have an idea what he meant by that? Because 2 years later, when I filed I-751, it has been nothing but trouble ever since! Even the most basic things like filing for changes of adress seemed to not process with them! (When I inquired on the hotline one day it turned out that they still had my old adress from 2 moves prior!! And yes I always did AR-11!) So I really dont understand...what do you guys think? Any similar experiences? Is this common with the USCIS? Is it possible that they lost evidence from my file during the transfer or even previously? How can I find out? Would hiring a lawyer help at all in such a case or would that just be a waste of money? Would filing a complaint do anything?? And what do you guys think they mean by "before a decision on your application may be considered"? Would this be the ultimate deicision (removal of my condition) or maybe just a decision whether they will call me for an interview? Because I do not feel like gathering and filing all this stuff just to be told half a year later that I need to appear to an interview, please bring following information with you etc etc! So please, if you guys can answer any of these questions for me and can give me any insights as to what might be going on and what would be a wise course of action I would tremendously appreciate it! I want this thing over with!! Thanks!
Dennis

I feel sorry for the situation you are in. But i have something to tell you.

I dont know if you already did this. Filing AR-11 everytime you move does not update your records with USCIS. You ALSO need to call USCIS and ask them to update your case record with your new address. You sponsor(s) should file I-865 as per the law if they also moved.

I agree with NJGIRL, you have not been mistreated by USCIS. I think its just bad luck and if you did not call them to update your address and file I-865, then i hate to say that its partly your fault too. You need to get an INFOPASS appt, go to your DO and make sure you and USCIS are on the same page with what is to be done next. I hope you have copies of whatever you submitted to USCIS for your AOS and your I-751. Take everything with you when you go,

As for the I-751 process, if you submit all the proof required and USCIS is satisfied with your evidence submitted, they might waive your interview. If they think they need more evidence from you, they will call you for an interview and ask you to bring everything you have to prove that your marriage is bonafide.

[AOS_GUY]

Actually new CIS guidelines give the officer the right to deny your case without an interview if he/she is convinced that the marriage is a sham.
WELL DOCUMENT YOUR I-751 APPLICATIONS.It might be your last chance to show them that you marriage is bonified.
On an another note you can still file N-400 if your I-751 is pending. If your naturalization interview comes before the I-751 is approved, the N-400 case will be pending until the I-751 is approved.

[yahayajp]

Originally Posted by AOS_GUY

Actually new CIS guidelines give the officer the right to deny your case without an interview if he/she is convinced that the marriage is a sham.
WELL DOCUMENT YOUR I-751 APPLICATIONS.It might be your last chance to show them that you marriage is bonified.
On an another note you can still file N-400 if your I-751 is pending. If your naturalization interview comes before the I-751 is approved, the N-400 case will be pending until the I-751 is approved.

HEY. how u doing?? how can u file n-400 if ur i175 is pending, i thought u have to get 175 approved first. hilight on that,and give us more light on that issue. and has any bodyever done that? thankx

[rex1960]

@DennisT
Please make sure the next post has more structure than your first one. It's hard to read and even if I'd like to help every now and then I refused to read your post because it appears like one single and very long sentence.

[AOS_GUY]

Originally Posted by yahayajp

HEY. how u doing?? how can u file n-400 if ur i175 is pending, i thought u have to get 175 approved first. hilight on that,and give us more light on that issue. and has any bodyever done that? thankx

N400 before I-751 approval.
http://www.murthy.com/news/UDconres.html


I-751 denial without interview
http://uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/h...lgtn013006.pdf

[DennisT]

Hello all,
thanks for all the replies and I'm sorry if my post seemed confusing or unstructured. I guess it does reflect my case pretty well - it's quite a mess!
So let me respond here...
NJGIRL wrote:

You have not been mistreated by BCIS from my understanding. When you file to remove condition from your green card, you have to established with supporting documents that within the two years you were still married to the petitioner. Documents like lease with both names, bills, etc. The reason why this is so is because at the time of initial interview for the Card, applicants would not have been in a position to show those common documents because of the duration of their marriage which is mostly 6months prior to the interview. To get this over with is to send in the documents that they requested. Infact, in most cases whilst those documents are recieved you will not be call to attend the second interview with the petitioner, you (beneficiary) would have to schedule an infopass to get the permanent stamp in your passport at your DO. That's what happen to a friend of mine, she went in to get her passport stamped. They didn't required the husband to be there because they were able to prove beyond reasonable doubt their marriage was bonafide.
Also, you will normally hear that one has to apply for the removal of condition with all supporting documents two months before the expiration of the Temporary green card. That doesn't imply that you will get the conditions removed soon after filing the application. It is now taking an average of four years after the initial filing to adjust one's status before you can expect to get the permanent green card. This has happen to people I know and I have friends who have been married for over 3 yrs now, have apply to remove conditions and still haven't been call to get their passport stamped or recieve the GC in the mail. So, when you send all the documents in, expect to wait another yr or so before you get the PGC.

Ok, I understand all that and I did all that. To clarify my timeline - after we had our interview in mid 2001 I got my conditional residence approved. My conditional green card was valid until August 2003. 90 days before its expiration I filed I-751 with all documents required - tax returns, joint bank accounts, bills, leases, affidavits etc. Shortly after I received my I-751 receipt letter which extended my GC until August 2004. It also said that my
application would require a minium of 30 days and if I hadn't heard from the USCIS within one year I should contact them. Well, I did several times and it was not until late January 2005 (about 5 months after my GC had expired) that I received a response. I was told that my case was awaiting interview scheduling but due to me moving I needed to transfer my file to my new DO.
Well, I got that initiated and it took another whole year until they sent me the note asking for more evidence.
To give you guys another perspective on my timeline - me and my wife are celebrating our 5th anniversary this coming Saturday and I still have only conditional residency! How can this be??
And no matter what you guys say I still feel mistreated because isn't it the USCIS job to make a decision within one year of my application? And if there's not sufficient evidence in my I-751 filing shouldn't they just say so and ask me for more? Why wait 2 1/2 years to all of a sudden go "hey, we need more evidence"?? Even so, why not just invite me to an interview as it was originally intended apparently? I mean ok, I can understand that due to my transfer they might figure "let's see what has happened since the filing" but then they should ask only for evidence for that time span, namely August 2003 up until now. But it specifically states in their recent note "please include evidence that spans the time you were first married up until the present". I find this pretty outrageous! As I said, it's like I have to file my I-751 all over again...

Also, Lawyers do advise people not to move whilst they have application pending at BCIS. This creates a lot of problem because files has to be transfer to DO serving your area of residence and sometimes it is pain the neck. In my opinion, the only move that will not affect the applicant is moving to an area wherein your DO will not be changed. In that case, your files dont have to be transfer because you are still dealing with the same DO. I hope this helps.

Thanks, I had kind of figured that. And me and my wife had waited as long as we could to not move, but after we still hadn't heard from the USCIS after more than a year, even upon my case status inquiries, we really had a to make a decision and that was moving in with her parents (who are also my co-sponsors) in Arkansas! Should I have to pay for that?? I would find it an outrageous notion anyway that the USCIS would expect their applicants to stay put just because they don't know how to efficiently move files or whatever. Come on, people want to move on with their lives! That lawyers advise this doesn't surprise me however, it's obvious that they wouldn't want to lose their clients...

cherr1980 wrote:

I don't get your dates, you received the receipt of your removal on July 2003 or 2004? You said that your card expired on Aug 2004. Can you clarify please?

I hope that my above timeline clarified it to you already but to make sure:
I received my receipt for the I-751 application in July 2003 which extended my GC until August 2004.

Yes, it has been registered that "specially" when people moves the risk to get things lost are higher.
And yes, when you remove the conditions if they consider that you need to send more information, documents even you already supplied it you must do it. And yes, you can be notify to appear for another interview that is pretty common and is a normal process and has nothing to do if they believe or not that your marriage is bona fide is part of the process.
An RFE (request for further evidence) asked you already and you have a timeline to do so I will suggest that do it as fast as you can. If you don't reply it your green card and its extension will be denied. Good luck

Thanks for the good luck and the insight. I still don't understand why they would want to see same documents over again, that's gotta be because of
negligence on their part...not cool.

ari4u wrote:

I feel sorry for the situation you are in. But i have something to tell you.

I dont know if you already did this. Filing AR-11 everytime you move does not update your records with USCIS. You ALSO need to call USCIS and ask them to update your case record with your new address. You sponsor(s) should file I-865 as per the law if they also moved.

Then what is filing AR-11 good for?? But to let you know, I did also call and several times it happened that they couldn't even update my address through the phone because my receipt number apparently gives them trouble at times! I can't even check my status online with my receipt number, their system won't recognize it! So its like "why even bother??", you know?
As for I-865, I did not know about that. My co-sponsors did actually move just when we moved in with them. I don't see why that would be a problem though because apparently all these change of adress filings don't make a difference with the USCIS anyway. But thanks for the info!

I agree with NJGIRL, you have not been mistreated by USCIS. I think its just bad luck and if you did not call them to update your address and file I-865, then i hate to say that its partly your fault too.

Well, I did. But even if I hadn't called I dont see anywhere on the USCIS website that one is required to do more aside from filing the AR-11. So even then it wouldn't be my fault, IMO. As for I-865 - I don't see what the moving of my co-sponsors would have to do with the need for more evidence and the delay of my application but that would be the only faulty thing on our side.

You need to get an INFOPASS appt, go to your DO and make sure you and USCIS are on the same page with what is to be done next. I hope you have copies of whatever you submitted to USCIS for your AOS and your I-751. Take everything with you when you go,

Thanks for the suggestion but there's no way we're gonna drive 6 hours just to be probably told by the Immigration officer that she doesn't have any details regarding their note and that we just have to comply and wait. I really don't see the point here. Unfortunately I do not have copies of what I submitted in my I-751, in hindsight that was foolish but how could I have known? I actually sent them orginal bills and bank statements. Oh well.

As for the I-751 process, if you submit all the proof required and USCIS is satisfied with your evidence submitted, they might waive your interview. If they think they need more evidence from you, they will call you for an interview and ask you to bring everything you have to prove that your marriage is bonafide.

After they had just asked for more evidence I dont see why they would want to see again more evidence IF they called me for an interview afterwards. And again, the marriage was already deemed bona fide in our first interview so why should there be still an open question about that??

AOS_GUY wrote:

Actually new CIS guidelines give the officer the right to deny your case without an interview if he/she is convinced that the marriage is a sham.
WELL DOCUMENT YOUR I-751 APPLICATIONS.It might be your last chance to show them that you marriage is bonified.

Uhm, let me repeat: Our marriage was already declared bona fide by the USCIS after our first interview! This is now about the removal of my conditional residence.

On an another note you can still file N-400 if your I-751 is pending. If your naturalization interview comes before the I-751 is approved, the N-400 case will be pending until the I-751 is approved.

Yeah, I had actually found that out through this forum already. If I had known before I could have filed N-400 about 3 years ago already so I probably wouldnt have had to deal with this I-751 crap! As for doing it now I don't think that I will ever file for citizenship after witnessing the efficiency of the USCIS. Why spend $330 and be hassled? Seeing how my case has been going so far I think an N-400 would just further complicate matters with my USCIS status. Thanks, but thanks.

rex1960 wrote:

Please make sure the next post has more structure than your first one. It's hard to read and even if I'd like to help every now and then I refused to read your post because it appears like one single and very long sentence.

Sorry about that - that's usually how I write things. I hope that this reply of mine is clearer to you and will enable you to help me. I would appreciate it.

Before I finish - I forgot to mention that the recent note I received by the USCIS was on green paper. Does that have any significance?
Great thanks to you all,
Dennis

[rex1960]

DennisT, no matter how you feel about USCIS being responsible for the situation you're in, get over it and move on. Do what you're supposed to do for the future and don't waste your time and energy looking back. You can't change the past.

Originally Posted by DennisT

Well, I did. But even if I hadn't called I dont see anywhere on the USCIS website that one is required to do more aside from filing the AR-11.

You're wrong on this one.
Here http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/address.htm they say (and I highlight what they already highlight on their page)

USCIS has created an additional procedure and recommends additional notifications for those aliens who are also applicants for benefits. Applicants and Petitioners with pending cases should telephone customer service at 1-800-375-5283 to report their change of address and get the address on the pending application/petition changed. If you are not a U.S. Citizen you will also be required to complete a Form AR-11. If you are not a U.S. citizen and you have a case pending with USCIS you need to do both - call customer service and complete the Form AR-11. The AR-11 is used by non-U.S. citizens to meet the legal requirements of informing USCIS of any change of address. Presently, completing an AR-11 does not update your address on any pending case. Also, while calling customer service updates the address on your pending case, it does not meet the legal requirement of completing an AR-11. Please see Change of Address (found under Contacting Us) on your local office About Us page.

You may choose the method of mailing your Form AR-11. Using certified, registered or receipt mail is not currently a USCIS requirement. However, it is advisable to send the AR-11 with a Return Receipt or some other method (see "Adding Extra Services") that will give you documentation that you did indeed mail the form to the USCIS, in case there should ever be a question.

[DennisT]

Thanks Rex for the clarification. I still don't see the sense in the change of address procedures when they even admit that it doesn't update the address on a pending case. So what is it really for? Anyway you're right about the moving on. Unfortunately I sometimes feel that it is the USCIS that stands in my way of moving on - simply by taking too long. Well, all I can do is gather up as much stuff again as I can to prove our marriage and file it before this deadline. I'm also going to include a little letter asking them for more information and letting them know about my frustration - in a civilized manner of course. Let's see if they will respond to that. Anyone else have any insight or valuable tips?
Thanks,
Dennis

[DennisT]

Ok, it's been a couple of years and I figured I would briefly describe what happened. In the end all things were good! After I had written a relatively long letter explaining my messed up situation I got a reply within weeks with my approval and invitation to get my green card at the Memphis office. I was like "wow, all of a sudden they can act and swiftly at that" lol. I didn't even have to do a 2nd interview. So my suggestion is to everyone who has difficulties with the USCIS to just keep reaching out and putting that extra mile in, especially a nice explanatory letter can do wonders. Don't be afraid to be confrontational as long as you are respectful about it and can back up your reasons for confrontation (attaching documents and so forth). If they don't respond at first or evade the issue then try, try again. But don't be too impatient or annoying about it. Some things do take time. Just thought I'd let everyone know.

p.s.: Irony of fate had it that shortly after I had finally received my green card my wife and I decided that divorce is the best thing. We parted amicably and I returned to my home country Germany. I'm basically sitting on an unused green card now that's still valid til 2016 lol. I'm not upset about it, life can just be funny that way. I did learn a lot during my 7 years in the US, I wouldn't want to miss it.

[Jackolantern]

Originally Posted by DennisT

Thanks Rex for the clarification. I still don't see the sense in the change of address procedures when they even admit that it doesn't update the address on a pending case.

It's because their information systems are redundant and inconsistent. They maintain an address for you as a person, and they also maintain an address for each of your applications.

We parted amicably and I returned to my home country Germany. I'm basically sitting on an unused green card now that's still valid til 2016 lol.

You should officially surrender the card at a US Consulate via the I-407 process, otherwise you could run into problems if you try to visit the US in the future.

[sgsnathan]

Originally Posted by Jackolantern

It's because their information systems are redundant and inconsistent. They maintain an address for you as a person, and they also maintain an address for each of your applications.

You should officially surrender the card at a US Consulate via the I-407 process, otherwise you could run into problems if you try to visit the US in the future.

Why does he have to surrender his GC? He can always use it for travel to the US until it expires. He just won't be able to renew it at that point if he stayed longer than 6 months at a time outside the country without an AP. He can always get a visa or may not need one (if he is visiting on visa waiver) thereafter.

[PraetorianXI]

Originally Posted by sgsnathan

Why does he have to surrender his GC? He can always use it for travel to the US until it expires. He just won't be able to renew it at that point if he stayed longer than 6 months at a time outside the country without an AP. He can always get a visa or may not need one (if he is visiting on visa waiver) thereafter.

No he can NOT just use it until it expires... He will (if he hasn't already) lose his permanent resident status which makes the GC pointless.